Discussion:
A better looking MonoSpaced font.
J***@.
1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC
I no longer use the "OCR A" font in my C++ console;
now, I'm sticking to Win10's default fonts.

For basic text, it's mostly "MS Mincho"
( a better looking MonoSpaced, Japanese font )
with the following exceptions:

const int Lowest_Ascii = 32, Highest_Ascii = 126 ;

if ( Ch >= Lowest_Ascii && Ch <= Highest_Ascii )
if ( Loc( Ch, L".\\^{}\"'~" ) ) goFont( Consolas )
else goFont( Mincho )

⛏╳oO.0
123 ╳ 23
.0╳oO⛏

Branimir Maksimovic
2021-07-27 12:48:00 UTC
Post by J***@.
I no longer use the "OCR A" font in my C++ console;
now, I'm sticking to Win10's default fonts.
For basic text, it's mostly "MS Mincho"
( a better looking MonoSpaced, Japanese font )
const int Lowest_Ascii = 32, Highest_Ascii = 126 ;
if ( Ch >= Lowest_Ascii && Ch <= Highest_Ascii )
if ( Loc( Ch, L".\\^{}\"'~" ) ) goFont( Consolas )
else goFont( Mincho )
⛏╳oO.0
123 ╳ 23
.0╳oO⛏
ScreenShot: http://Jeff-Relf.Me/Mincho.PNG
https://www.icloud.com/iclouddrive/0djSv4i3ySZl70WSv-kLn94qg#fontfornonascii
You need real OS...
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J***@.
1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC
Post by Branimir Maksimovic
My C++ console mostly uses "MS Mincho" for ASCII;
"Consolas" when: . \ ^ { }  ' ~ )
https://www.icloud.com/iclouddrive/0djSv4i3ySZl70WSv-kLn94qg#fontfornonascii
You got it backwards; I'm using (mostly) Mincho
for ASCII -- you're using it for _non_ ASCII.

I make exceptions for: . \ ^ { }  ' ~
You can't do that, sucker.
Google Chrome & Safari also can't do it, suckers !

My emojis are ASCII-aligned, MultiColored, TripleWide MonoSpaced;
i.e. they align perfectly when mixed with ASCII. See:

http://Jeff-Relf.Me/Mincho.PNG

You can't do that; yours _must_ be SingleWide.
Post by Branimir Maksimovic
You need real OS...
...he said, looking in the mirror.
Post by Branimir Maksimovic
⛏╳oO.0
123 ╳ 23
.0╳oO⛏
DFS
2021-07-28 16:45:54 UTC
Post by J***@.
I no longer use the "OCR A" font in my C++ console;
now, I'm sticking to Win10's default fonts.
For basic text, it's mostly "MS Mincho"
( a better looking MonoSpaced, Japanese font )
const int Lowest_Ascii = 32, Highest_Ascii = 126 ;
if ( Ch >= Lowest_Ascii && Ch <= Highest_Ascii )
if ( Loc( Ch, L".\\^{}\"'~" ) ) goFont( Consolas )
else goFont( Mincho )
⛏╳oO.0
123 ╳ 23
.0╳oO⛏
ScreenShot: http://Jeff-Relf.Me/Mincho.PNG
Forgot to include this one:

https://www.monolisa.dev/
Clutterfreak
2021-07-28 17:13:50 UTC
Post by J***@.
I no longer use the "OCR A" font in my C++ console;
now, I'm sticking to Win10's default fonts.
For basic text, it's mostly "MS Mincho"
( a better looking MonoSpaced, Japanese font )
const int  Lowest_Ascii = 32, Highest_Ascii = 126 ;
if ( Ch >= Lowest_Ascii && Ch <= Highest_Ascii )
if ( Loc( Ch, L".\\^{}\"'~" ) ) goFont( Consolas )
else goFont( Mincho )
⛏╳oO.0
123 ╳ 23
.0╳oO⛏
ScreenShot:  http://Jeff-Relf.Me/Mincho.PNG
https://sourcefoundry.org/hack/playground.html
If you guys want to show off your "font" skills so much why don't you
come up with a way to write math simultaneously along more than one line
of text so we could see fractions, matrices, etc in their proper usable
form for usenet.

The "font" skills you show belongs to kids under 10. "Men" do what
mathcad 2 did 35 years ago with ASCII fonts using several rows of text
at once for any math requirements ever.
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FR
2021-07-28 18:30:44 UTC
Post by Clutterfreak
If you guys want to show off your "font" skills so much why don't you
come up with a way to write math simultaneously along more than one line
of text so we could see fractions, matrices, etc in their proper usable
form for usenet.
2 2 2 2
b (sqrt(a - b ) sin(u) (sqrt(a - b ) cos(u) + a))
f(u, a, b) := ---------------------------------------------------
2 2 2 2
sqrt(a sin (u) + b cos (u))

Pretty printing is standard withing most symbolic math packages such
maxima, but I've never encountered an external library for C that would
do the same.

Python has pretty printing modules but I would not touch Python with
a 10-foot hotstick.
Clutterfreak
2021-07-28 20:40:50 UTC
Post by FR
Post by Clutterfreak
If you guys want to show off your "font" skills so much why don't you
come up with a way to write math simultaneously along more than one line
of text so we could see fractions, matrices, etc in their proper usable
form for usenet.
2 2 2 2
b (sqrt(a - b ) sin(u) (sqrt(a - b ) cos(u) + a))
f(u, a, b) := ---------------------------------------------------
2 2 2 2
sqrt(a sin (u) + b cos (u))
Pretty printing is standard withing most symbolic math packages such
maxima, but I've never encountered an external library for C that would
do the same.
Python has pretty printing modules but I would not touch Python with
a 10-foot hotstick.
This isn't good enough. One still has to take time to see where
corresponding brackets begin and end. What a shame. Almost 40 years
after introduction of usenet and we can't even communicate one line of
math in it properly.
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F Russell
2021-07-28 23:24:22 UTC
Post by Clutterfreak
One still has to take time to see where
corresponding brackets begin and end.
This would be true whatever the format, be it pretty printing,
LaTex, MathML, MathJax, LO Math, or anything else.

If one has trouble with nested brackets then one should
seek another line of work.
--
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Always and forever.
Clutterfreak
2021-07-29 16:42:05 UTC
Post by F Russell
Post by Clutterfreak
One still has to take time to see where
corresponding brackets begin and end.
This would be true whatever the format, be it pretty printing,
LaTex, MathML, MathJax, LO Math, or anything else.
If one has trouble with nested brackets then one should
seek another line of work.
There are unnecessary brackets introduced in what is presented that
normal math expressions do not have. Too many brackets is one of the
problems here.
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DFS
2021-07-28 23:40:19 UTC
Post by Clutterfreak
Post by Clutterfreak
If you guys want to show off your "font" skills so much why don't you
come up with a way to write math simultaneously along more than one line
of text so we could see fractions, matrices, etc in their proper usable
form for usenet.
2    2                2    2
b (sqrt(a  - b ) sin(u) (sqrt(a  - b ) cos(u) + a))
f(u, a, b) := ---------------------------------------------------
2    2       2    2
sqrt(a  sin (u) + b  cos (u))
Pretty printing is standard withing most symbolic math packages such
maxima, but I've never encountered an external library for C that would
do the same.
Python has pretty printing modules but I would not touch Python with
a 10-foot hotstick.
This isn't good enough. One still has to take time to see where
corresponding brackets begin and end. What a shame.
wtf? Would bold, multicolored matching brackets make you happy?
Post by Clutterfreak
Almost 40 years
after introduction of usenet and we can't even communicate one line of
math in it properly.
Feeb's example is easy to read. Better than what the original was, or
could have been:

f(u,a,b):=b(sqrt(a^2-b^2)sin(u)(sqrt(a^2-b^2)cos(u)+a))/sqrt(a^2
sin^2(u)+b^2cos^2(u))

Note: I didn't mean to crosspost, and won't reply to sci.physics again
(unless Relf sneaks it in for no reason and I miss it again).
J***@.
1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC
Post by DFS
I didn't mean to crosspost, and won't reply to sci.physics again
"Sci.Physics" is quiet, they won't spam us.

P.S. If you can do better than me, anywhere,
on any console, any browser, post a screenshot of:

⛏╳oO.0
123 ╳ 23
.0╳oO⛏ ScreenShot:

http://Jeff-Relf.Me/Mincho.PNG
Clutterfreak
2021-07-29 16:34:48 UTC
Post by DFS
Would bold, multicolored matching brackets make you happy?
That would be a good idea that everywhere has been utilized accept,
again, in usenet.

What would really help would be a real square root sign that extended in
length and height over what it encompasses. Can you do that? If you show
you can and make us able to do it in usenet then you've taken one step
that has been due for 40 years.
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FR
2021-07-29 17:46:35 UTC
Post by Clutterfreak
What would really help would be a real square root sign that extended in
length and height over what it encompasses.
+---------+
| 2 2 x
\|- x + a + asin(-) + s
a

This is as good as it gets with ascii. (Taken from Axiom software output.)

A better alternative is to use Unicode characters with judicious
bracketing:

√(-x^2 + a^2)

This is much, much easier for a human to compose and there is no
abiguity.

∫ 1/x dx

Unicode only provides the symbols. Adequate use requires formatting
with graphical fonts.

For a pure text medium such as Usenet there must be many compromises
for math expressions.
Jim Pennino
2021-07-29 18:27:23 UTC
Post by FR
Post by Clutterfreak
What would really help would be a real square root sign that extended in
length and height over what it encompasses.
+---------+
| 2 2 x
\|- x + a + asin(-) + s
a
This is as good as it gets with ascii. (Taken from Axiom software output.)
A better alternative is to use Unicode characters with judicious
√(-x^2 + a^2)
This is much, much easier for a human to compose and there is no
abiguity.
∫ 1/x dx
Unicode only provides the symbols. Adequate use requires formatting
with graphical fonts.
For a pure text medium such as Usenet there must be many compromises
for math expressions.
USENET has allowed uuencoded attachments for many, many decades, which
means you can attach graphs if you want.
Clutterfreak
2021-07-31 01:56:53 UTC
Post by FR
+---------+
| 2 2 x
\|- x + a + asin(-) + s
a
This is as good as it gets with ascii. (Taken from Axiom software output.)
This isn't bad at all if the multi-line output is done automatically. Is
the "Axiom" software freeware?

If the radicand had a denominator also then this software would work
much better than one-liners using many extra brackets to compensate for
what is where.
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F Russell
2021-07-31 10:49:22 UTC
Is the "Axiom" software freeware?
http://www.axiom-developer.org
--
Systemd free. D.E. free.

Always and forever.
Clutterfreak
2021-08-01 13:52:44 UTC
Post by F Russell
Is the "Axiom" software freeware?
http://www.axiom-developer.org
That seems to be an algebra solver that only outputs the result of its
calculations in ascii form utilizing several lines simultaneously. So it
does more than just what you give it to write. So I'm guessing if you
intend to write (x + x + 2x) and exactly like that, it will just output
(4x) for you.

Not good enough.
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Fabian Russell
2021-08-01 15:40:43 UTC
Post by Clutterfreak
Post by F Russell
http://www.axiom-developer.org
That seems to be an algebra solver that only outputs the result of its
calculations in ascii form utilizing several lines simultaneously. So it
does more than just what you give it to write. So I'm guessing if you
intend to write (x + x + 2x) and exactly like that, it will just output
(4x) for you.
Why would want to write (x + x + 2x)?

A more recent fork of Axiom is FriCAS:

https://github.com/fricas/fricas

AFAIK, this is the only software that does such formatting.

For example, one can define a variable:

e0:=sqrt(a^2*sin(x)^2+b^2*cos(x))

FriCAS will return:

+--------------------+
|2 2 2
\|a sin(x) + b cos(x)

(this might be mangled because I post from GG due to newsguy
being down)

This can be pasted or an entire session can be pasted.

(6) -> e2:=atan(sqrt(a/b^2))^(5/3)

+-----------+2
+--+ | +--+
| a | | a
(6) atan( |-- ) |atan( |-- )
| 2 3| | 2
\|b \| \|b

I don't use this software much and I don't know if there settings that
can influence the default simplications.
Fabian Russell
2021-08-01 15:50:42 UTC
Post by Fabian Russell
e0:=sqrt(a^2*sin(x)^2+b^2*cos(x))
+--------------------+
|2 2 2
\|a sin(x) + b cos(x)
FriCAS also has an API containing a print package that outputs
this formatting:

https://fricas.github.io/api/PrintPackage.html
F Russell
2021-08-02 10:02:23 UTC
Post by Clutterfreak
That seems to be an algebra solver that only outputs the result of its
calculations in ascii form utilizing several lines simultaneously. So it
does more than just what you give it to write. So I'm guessing if you
intend to write (x + x + 2x) and exactly like that, it will just output
(4x) for you.
Why would someone want to write (x + x + 2x)?

FriCAS has a "print" command that will format an expression
in ASCII math:

print(sqrt(a^2*cos(x)^2+b^2*sin(x)^2) + atan(a^2/b^2-1))

+------------------------+ 2 2
| 2 2 2 2 b - a
\|b sin(x) + a cos(x) - atan(---------)
2
b

(this may be mangled due to non-monospaced fonts)

Also, this print function is available via an API:

https://fricas.github.io/api/PrintPackage.html

But no one cares about such ASCII math formatting. To communicate
one is better served by creating a "notebook" in Maxima, Mathematica,
or other CAS and sending that notebook as an attachment.
--
Systemd free. D.E. free.

Always and forever.
Clutterfreak
2021-08-02 22:49:23 UTC
On 8/2/2021 5:02 AM, F Russell wrote:

Fricas is for linux. Majority, including myself, use windows.
Post by F Russell
But no one cares about such ASCII math formatting.
Scientists care. Using "attachments" isn't good enough.
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Clutterfreak
2021-08-03 16:18:21 UTC
ASCII
math could never address these situations.
Usenet itself has already been written off
Absolutely not!

If usenet wasn't potent Google wouldn't try so hard for so many years to
kill it. It is potent for two advantages that it has; namely, it works
without a moderator so it is immune to politics and Big Business and the
objectivity it can have is well at home with scientific thoughts and
discussions; and it is free and available 24x7 around the world so in
rare cases of important emergencies it can work much better than
"wikileaks" or what any web page could. Ask Assange on that.

I give it a chance that the few Wuhan scientists who revolted and
objected to the development of enhanced spikes on bat virus for NIH (and
got subsequently infected by same thing in November of 2019) probably
used usenet to get the news out to scientists in Europe. "Web pages"
have owners that even I can bring up their names and exact updated
addresses and phone numbers. But nobody in the world can suddenly stop
usenet.
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F Russell
2021-08-03 20:17:49 UTC
Post by Clutterfreak
If usenet wasn't potent Google wouldn't try so hard for so many years to
kill it. It is potent for two advantages that it has; namely, it works
without a moderator so it is immune to politics and Big Business and the
objectivity it can have is well at home with scientific thoughts and
discussions; and it is free and available 24x7 around the world
I wholeheartedly agree.

But my point was that few others do agree. Taking math/physics as
an example, most of the serious discussions are taking place on
stackexchange.com, stackoverflow.com, physicsforums.com, etc.

Anyone approaching sci.physics or sci.math nowadays is bound
to be repelled by the cacophony of lunacy that is present there.
How can Usenet survive with these conditions?

Some groups are immune to this madness, but it will require
a mass movement from web forums to Usenet to purge the
lunacy and that is not likely to happen.

Usenet is a fantastic medium for communication and sharing,
but it is not being recognized as such by the groups that could
make a difference.
--
Systemd free. D.E. free.

Always and forever.
Jim Pennino
2021-08-03 20:44:10 UTC
Post by F Russell
Post by Clutterfreak
If usenet wasn't potent Google wouldn't try so hard for so many years to
kill it. It is potent for two advantages that it has; namely, it works
without a moderator so it is immune to politics and Big Business and the
objectivity it can have is well at home with scientific thoughts and
discussions; and it is free and available 24x7 around the world
I wholeheartedly agree.
But my point was that few others do agree. Taking math/physics as
an example, most of the serious discussions are taking place on
stackexchange.com, stackoverflow.com, physicsforums.com, etc.
Anyone approaching sci.physics or sci.math nowadays is bound
to be repelled by the cacophony of lunacy that is present there.
How can Usenet survive with these conditions?
Some groups are immune to this madness, but it will require
a mass movement from web forums to Usenet to purge the
lunacy and that is not likely to happen.
Usenet is a fantastic medium for communication and sharing,
but it is not being recognized as such by the groups that could
make a difference.
There are USENET groups with moderators, but the kooks and mental cases
are not allowed to post so the volume is low.

You can find serious discussions on them.

groups to them.
Clutterfreak
2021-08-04 02:12:28 UTC
Post by F Russell
Anyone approaching sci.physics or sci.math nowadays is bound
to be repelled by the cacophony of lunacy that is present there.
How can Usenet survive with these conditions?
Use a killfile and you don't see anything that you don't have time for.

But if you want to see scientists come to sci.physics to talk science
the tools for it should be available. Without such tools nothing more
than casual talk can be done and you won't see those scientists for long
cause almost all of them don't have time for it.
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DFS
2021-07-30 14:27:17 UTC
Post by FR
Python has pretty printing modules but I would not touch Python with
a 10-foot hotstick.
It's not for everyone. Insecure fucking idiots who like to waste MAJOR
time with C for no good reason should stay away.

This took all of 10 minutes to write and test (it worked right the very
first time).

---------------------------------------------------------------
def getanagrams(words, anaword):
anacount = 0
lenanaword = len(anaword)
sortedana = sorted(anaword)
for word in words:
if len(word) == lenanaword:
if sorted(word) == sortedana:
if word != anaword:
anacount += 1
print(word,end=' ')

getanagrams(words,'players')

asperly parleys parsley pyrales replays sparely splayer
7 anagrams found in 0.089 seconds
---------------------------------------------------------------

Look at it. It's almost like writing pseudocode. Great stuff.

Do you know what a hassle it is to do this in C? I do because I've done
it more than once. It's a real hassle.

How about getting a list of files in the current directory with C?
Another pain.

------------------------------------
import os
for entry in os.scandir('.'):
if entry.is_file():
print(entry.name)
------------------------------------

Try it at the python command line.

I just parsed the set of English dictionary files from
https://www.mso.anu.edu.au/~ralph/OPTED/

About a half-hour to get the code exactly right so the .csv data will
cleanly import into a db. Now I have a text dictionary of 176049 (word,
category, definition). Code ran in about 3 seconds. Very satisfying!

A: 11616 lines
B: 9877 lines
C: 16736 lines
D: 10806 lines
E: 7520 lines
F: 7419 lines
G: 5417 lines
H: 6269 lines
I: 7783 lines
J: 1338 lines
K: 1283 lines
L: 5814 lines
M: 8846 lines
N: 3034 lines
O: 4461 lines
P: 15429 lines
Q: 1043 lines
R: 8910 lines
Error in letter S: line 12935
), a game played with such pieces; pushpin
S: 21504 lines
T: 9285 lines
U: 3358 lines
V: 2796 lines
W: 4457 lines
X: 147 lines
Y: 486 lines
Z: 415 lines
Total lines: 176049

pwned
J***@.
1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC
My C++ console mostly uses "MS Mincho" for ASCII;
"Consolas" when: . \ ^ { }  ' " ~ )
https://sourcefoundry.org/hack/playground.html
Not only does "playground" have no "MS Mincho",
a huge oversight, seeing as it's a standard (default) font,
I see no exceptions for: . \ ^ { }  ' " ~ )

Also, you can't Mix-n-Match fonts
( MS Mincho, Consolas, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol, nSimSun, Segoe UI Historic )
so that MultiColored, TripleWide MonoSpaced emojis align perfectly
when mixed with MonoColored, SingleWide ASCII, like this:

⛏╳oO.0
123 ╳ 23
.0╳oO⛏ ScreenShot:

http://Jeff-Relf.Me/Mincho.PNG

Google Chrome & Safari _also_ can't do it, suckers !
DFS
2021-07-28 23:36:24 UTC
Post by J***@.
My C++ console mostly uses "MS Mincho" for ASCII;
"Consolas" when: . \ ^ { }  ' " ~ )
https://sourcefoundry.org/hack/playground.html
Not only does "playground" have no "MS Mincho",
a huge oversight, seeing as it's a standard (default) font,
I see no exceptions for: . \ ^ { }  ' " ~ )
Also, you can't Mix-n-Match fonts
( MS Mincho, Consolas, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol, nSimSun, Segoe UI Historic )
so that MultiColored, TripleWide MonoSpaced emojis align perfectly
⛏╳oO.0
123 ╳ 23
http://Jeff-Relf.Me/Mincho.PNG
Google Chrome & Safari _also_ can't do it, suckers !
On your screenshot the axe emoji takes up 3 spaces and looks a little
wonky. It's not *perfectly* aligned, sucker!