Discussion:
Linux books for DFS
(too old to reply)
Kier
2005-06-16 10:54:07 UTC
Permalink
Here's a list of some of the Linux-related books I own, and have found
useful. Maybe if you spend more time reading than you do trolling here,
you'll learn something and be motivated to become a genuine Linux user.

'How Linux Works - what every superuser should know.' Brian Ward (No
Starch Press)

The No Starch books are good value for money, well laid out and readable.

'Linux Cookbook - tips and techniques for everyday use.' Michael Stutz (No
Starch Press)

There's a new edition out, mine is an older one, and slightly out of date
but still very usable. Mainly focused on Debian, and the command line, but
no less valuable for that.

'Knoppix Hacks - 100 Industrial-Strength tips and tools.' Kyle Rankin
(O'Reilly)

A fun book of things to do with your Knoppix CD, including a guide to
remastering.

'Linux in a Nutshell - a quick desktop reference.' Ellen Siver, Stephen
Figgins, Aaron Weber (O'Reilly)

Got this second-hand recently, as it's the 4th edition, not the latest.
Packed with information on Linux commands both common and obscure: "With
this book, you'll no longer have to grope through long manpages and info
documents for the information you need; you'll find it here in clear
language and an easy-to-read format." (Quoted from back cover)

It's a weighty tome, but well worth the money.
--
Kier
Rich Bell
2005-06-16 14:00:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kier
'Linux in a Nutshell - a quick desktop reference.' Ellen Siver, Stephen
Figgins, Aaron Weber (O'Reilly)
Is this a story about the COLA Nuts?
Aquila Deus
2005-06-16 14:23:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich Bell
Post by Kier
'Linux in a Nutshell - a quick desktop reference.' Ellen Siver, Stephen
Figgins, Aaron Weber (O'Reilly)
Is this a story about the COLA Nuts?
LOL, nutshell has nothing to do with nuts. Those books are basically
for morons, not mad cows.
Beowulf TrollsHammer
2005-06-16 15:06:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich Bell
Post by Kier
'Linux in a Nutshell - a quick desktop reference.' Ellen Siver, Stephen
Figgins, Aaron Weber (O'Reilly)
Is this a story about the COLA Nuts?
Nope. I've read it and it says nothing about you.
Sinister Midget
2005-06-16 15:23:56 UTC
Permalink
begin KillFileMe.vbs
Post by Rich Bell
Post by Kier
'Linux in a Nutshell - a quick desktop reference.' Ellen Siver, Stephen
Figgins, Aaron Weber (O'Reilly)
Is this a story about the COLA Nuts?
No. But here's one about you:

http://tinyurl.com/b5sea

Is that an autobiography? Did you need a ghostwriter? Or is it an
authorized biography written by an historian?
--
Microsoft: The company that made email dangerous.
TheDread
2005-06-16 19:46:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sinister Midget
begin KillFileMe.vbs
Post by Rich Bell
Post by Kier
'Linux in a Nutshell - a quick desktop reference.' Ellen Siver, Stephen
Figgins, Aaron Weber (O'Reilly)
Is this a story about the COLA Nuts?
http://tinyurl.com/b5sea
Is that an autobiography? Did you need a ghostwriter? Or is it an
authorized biography written by an historian?
See Dick run, see Jane run, see Spot run.
See spot Dick Jane.
God I hated those books in grade school, Heck I was reading novels by
second grade what use did I have for that drivel. It kind of reminds one
of the difference between Linux (novels) and that toy of from Redmond WA
(Dick and Jane books. Great analogy S. M.
--
"Got the dirty lowdown Ms spyware, adware, malware, virus blues?
Try *nix there is a distro just for you."

Linux User #273161
William Poaster
2005-06-16 18:39:08 UTC
Permalink
begin OEKillFileMe.vbs It was on Thu, 16 Jun 2005 15:23:56 +0000, that
Post by Sinister Midget
begin KillFileMe.vbs
Post by Rich Bell
Post by Kier
'Linux in a Nutshell - a quick desktop reference.' Ellen Siver, Stephen
Figgins, Aaron Weber (O'Reilly)
Is this a story about the COLA Nuts?
http://tinyurl.com/b5sea
Is that an autobiography? Did you need a ghostwriter? Or is it an
authorized biography written by an historian?
I assume he's the Dick! <g>
--
When I hear of a long time smoker dying of lung cancer
I think "That's too bad, but they made their choices".
When I hear about companies gettings screwed by Microsoft,
I think the same thing. -- Anon
Sinister Midget
2005-06-16 22:59:59 UTC
Permalink
begin KillFileMe.vbs
Post by William Poaster
begin OEKillFileMe.vbs It was on Thu, 16 Jun 2005 15:23:56 +0000, that
Post by Sinister Midget
begin KillFileMe.vbs
Post by Rich Bell
Post by Kier
'Linux in a Nutshell - a quick desktop reference.' Ellen Siver, Stephen
Figgins, Aaron Weber (O'Reilly)
Is this a story about the COLA Nuts?
http://tinyurl.com/b5sea
Is that an autobiography? Did you need a ghostwriter? Or is it an
authorized biography written by an historian?
I assume he's the Dick! <g>
"The" Dick. "A" Dick. It's all semantics.
--
Windows: So easy to admin, even a worm can do it.
Kier
2005-06-16 16:09:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich Bell
Post by Kier
'Linux in a Nutshell - a quick desktop reference.' Ellen Siver, Stephen
Figgins, Aaron Weber (O'Reilly)
Is this a story about the COLA Nuts?
Idiot. You're showing your own stupidity even more clearly that usual.
--
Kier
Aquila Deus
2005-06-16 16:25:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kier
Post by Rich Bell
Post by Kier
'Linux in a Nutshell - a quick desktop reference.' Ellen Siver, Stephen
Figgins, Aaron Weber (O'Reilly)
Is this a story about the COLA Nuts?
Idiot. You're showing your own stupidity even more clearly that usual.
Do you have any proof showing he's not that stupid usually?
S.Heenan
2005-06-16 23:32:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kier
--
Idiot.
Swell sig you have there.
Aquila Deus
2005-06-16 14:19:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kier
Here's a list of some of the Linux-related books I own, and have found
useful. Maybe if you spend more time reading than you do trolling here,
you'll learn something and be motivated to become a genuine Linux user.
- Linux Kernels Internals
- Linux Application Development (I have this myself!)
- The Official GNOME 2 Developers Guide
DFS
2005-06-16 23:14:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kier
Here's a list of some of the Linux-related books I own, and have found
useful. Maybe if you spend more time reading than you do trolling
here, you'll learn something and be motivated to become a genuine
Linux user.
'How Linux Works - what every superuser should know.' Brian Ward (No
Starch Press)
The No Starch books are good value for money, well laid out and readable.
Never heard of No Starch Press.
Post by Kier
'Linux Cookbook - tips and techniques for everyday use.' Michael
Stutz (No Starch Press)
There's a new edition out, mine is an older one, and slightly out of
date but still very usable. Mainly focused on Debian, and the command
line, but no less valuable for that.
'Knoppix Hacks - 100 Industrial-Strength tips and tools.' Kyle Rankin
(O'Reilly)
A fun book of things to do with your Knoppix CD, including a guide to
remastering.
'Linux in a Nutshell - a quick desktop reference.' Ellen Siver,
Stephen Figgins, Aaron Weber (O'Reilly)
Got this second-hand recently, as it's the 4th edition, not the
latest. Packed with information on Linux commands both common and
obscure: "With this book, you'll no longer have to grope through long
manpages and info documents for the information you need; you'll find
it here in clear language and an easy-to-read format." (Quoted from
back cover)
It's a weighty tome, but well worth the money.
Yeah, the ...Nutshell books are good. And the O'Reilly books in general.
Java in a Nutshell is a really good reference book.

I already own:

Running Linux, 4th Ed
Understanding the Linux Kernel, 2nd Ed
Red Hat Linux Bible, Fedora and Enterprise Ed ($7 at Microcenter)
Linux Server Hacks

Obviously I haven't spent much time with them.

Thanks for the references.
win_not_lin
2005-06-16 19:24:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by DFS
Running Linux, 4th Ed
Understanding the Linux Kernel, 2nd Ed
Red Hat Linux Bible, Fedora and Enterprise Ed ($7 at Microcenter)
Linux Server Hacks
Obviously I haven't spent much time with them.
Thanks for the references.
Man, you're getting turned. Pretty soon you'll be a full-fledged Linux bozo!
Kier
2005-06-16 19:33:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by win_not_lin
Post by DFS
Running Linux, 4th Ed
Understanding the Linux Kernel, 2nd Ed
Red Hat Linux Bible, Fedora and Enterprise Ed ($7 at Microcenter)
Linux Server Hacks
Obviously I haven't spent much time with them.
Thanks for the references.
Man, you're getting turned. Pretty soon you'll be a full-fledged Linux bozo!
Why don't you keep your mouth shut? If DFS has the courtesy to thank me
even after we've butted heads quite acrimoniously, what business is it of
yours to stick your snout in?
--
Kier
win_not_lin
2005-06-16 20:32:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kier
Post by win_not_lin
Post by DFS
Running Linux, 4th Ed
Understanding the Linux Kernel, 2nd Ed
Red Hat Linux Bible, Fedora and Enterprise Ed ($7 at Microcenter)
Linux Server Hacks
Obviously I haven't spent much time with them.
Thanks for the references.
Man, you're getting turned. Pretty soon you'll be a full-fledged Linux bozo!
Why don't you keep your mouth shut? If DFS has the courtesy to thank me
even after we've butted heads quite acrimoniously, what business is it of
yours to stick your snout in?
I wasn't taking to or about you, you irascible burk. That's why I
snipped your blather out of the quoted text.
Kier
2005-06-16 20:46:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by win_not_lin
Post by Kier
Post by win_not_lin
Post by DFS
Running Linux, 4th Ed
Understanding the Linux Kernel, 2nd Ed
Red Hat Linux Bible, Fedora and Enterprise Ed ($7 at Microcenter)
Linux Server Hacks
Obviously I haven't spent much time with them.
Thanks for the references.
Man, you're getting turned. Pretty soon you'll be a full-fledged Linux bozo!
Why don't you keep your mouth shut? If DFS has the courtesy to thank me
even after we've butted heads quite acrimoniously, what business is it of
yours to stick your snout in?
I wasn't taking to or about you, you irascible burk. That's why I
snipped your blather out of the quoted text.
I know, you idiot. You were suggesting that there was something wrong in
DFS wishing to read Linux books, or becoming genuinely interested in
Linux. I was suggesting you bog off.
--
Kier
DFS
2005-06-16 20:51:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by win_not_lin
Post by DFS
Running Linux, 4th Ed
Understanding the Linux Kernel, 2nd Ed
Red Hat Linux Bible, Fedora and Enterprise Ed ($7 at Microcenter)
Linux Server Hacks
Obviously I haven't spent much time with them.
Thanks for the references.
Man, you're getting turned. Pretty soon you'll be a full-fledged Linux bozo!
That hurts... that really hurts...:(

ha! There are just too many crappy Linux applications. OpenOffice isn't
there yet. The browsers look ridiculously bad - many are just about
impossible to read until I shift the font size up 2 notches. Firefox is
best so far. There's no decent replacement for VB or Access, though Borland
Delphi is a maybe.

But I was always interested in different OS's, from the beginning. I ran
DR-DOS and OS/2 and even BeOS a little bit. But the world (corporate and
otherwise) went for Windows, and from probably late '92 onward all the work
I did was in Windows db clients and VB.
win_not_lin
2005-06-16 21:26:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by DFS
Post by win_not_lin
Post by DFS
Running Linux, 4th Ed
Understanding the Linux Kernel, 2nd Ed
Red Hat Linux Bible, Fedora and Enterprise Ed ($7 at Microcenter)
Linux Server Hacks
Obviously I haven't spent much time with them.
Thanks for the references.
Man, you're getting turned. Pretty soon you'll be a full-fledged Linux bozo!
That hurts... that really hurts...:(
ha! There are just too many crappy Linux applications. OpenOffice isn't
there yet.
Still waiting for it to open, huh?
Post by DFS
The browsers look ridiculously bad - many are just about
impossible to read until I shift the font size up 2 notches.
Everything looks bad in Linux. It's because of the naff font rendering
and the cluttered GUIs.

The font issue is weird. How come Linux fonts look so nasty? Is it a
design flaw in X11 or do Linux users really prefer those smudgy things
to the crisp and infinitely more readable fonts in Windows?

The only OK-ish fonts I ever rememeber seeing in Linux where in the
virtual terminals, i.e. outside of X11.
Post by DFS
Firefox is best so far.
Probably because it's essentially a Windows app.
Post by DFS
There's no decent replacement for VB or Access, though Borland
Delphi is a maybe.
Wouldn't know.
Post by DFS
But I was always interested in different OS's, from the beginning. I ran
DR-DOS and OS/2 and even BeOS a little bit. But the world (corporate and
otherwise) went for Windows, and from probably late '92 onward all the work
I did was in Windows db clients and VB.
When you first came here, it was a different story. You just wanted to
get a rise out of the Linux nuts and you were one of the best. Now
you're having polite exchanges about Linux books with a resident Cola bozo.
Kier
2005-06-16 22:03:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by win_not_lin
Post by DFS
Post by win_not_lin
Post by DFS
Running Linux, 4th Ed
Understanding the Linux Kernel, 2nd Ed
Red Hat Linux Bible, Fedora and Enterprise Ed ($7 at Microcenter)
Linux Server Hacks
Obviously I haven't spent much time with them.
Thanks for the references.
Man, you're getting turned. Pretty soon you'll be a full-fledged Linux bozo!
That hurts... that really hurts...:(
ha! There are just too many crappy Linux applications. OpenOffice isn't
there yet.
Still waiting for it to open, huh?
Post by DFS
The browsers look ridiculously bad - many are just about
impossible to read until I shift the font size up 2 notches.
Everything looks bad in Linux. It's because of the naff font rendering
and the cluttered GUIs.
Ever seen fluxbox? About an uncluttered as you can get.

Everything doesn't 'look bad' in Linux, that's just your dishonesty
showing.
Post by win_not_lin
The font issue is weird. How come Linux fonts look so nasty? Is it a
design flaw in X11 or do Linux users really prefer those smudgy things
to the crisp and infinitely more readable fonts in Windows?
You're talking ill-informed nonsense. Linux fonts don't look nasty. They
look fine.
Post by win_not_lin
The only OK-ish fonts I ever rememeber seeing in Linux where in the
virtual terminals, i.e. outside of X11.
Then your memory is at fault. This bollocks about poor fonts has been
disproved again and again, but you trolls keep dragging it up as if it was
true. It's not.
Post by win_not_lin
Post by DFS
Firefox is best so far.
Probably because it's essentially a Windows app.
Huh?
Post by win_not_lin
Post by DFS
There's no decent replacement for VB or Access, though Borland
Delphi is a maybe.
Wouldn't know.
Post by DFS
But I was always interested in different OS's, from the beginning. I ran
DR-DOS and OS/2 and even BeOS a little bit. But the world (corporate and
otherwise) went for Windows, and from probably late '92 onward all the work
I did was in Windows db clients and VB.
When you first came here, it was a different story. You just wanted to
get a rise out of the Linux nuts and you were one of the best. Now
you're having polite exchanges about Linux books with a resident Cola bozo.
Why don't you go away, nit wit? I'm a Linux advocate, you're the bozo,
bozo. Now push off.
--
Kier
William Poaster
2005-06-16 22:39:56 UTC
Permalink
begin OEKillFileMe.vbs It was on Thu, 16 Jun 2005 22:26:29 +0100, that
win_not_lin was seen to write:

<snip crap>

Well it's obvious you've never used linux, in spite of your "claim".
--
When I hear of a long time smoker dying of lung cancer
I think "That's too bad, but they made their choices".
When I hear about companies gettings screwed by Microsoft,
I think the same thing. -- Anon
DFS
2005-06-17 00:34:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by win_not_lin
Post by DFS
Post by win_not_lin
Post by DFS
Running Linux, 4th Ed
Understanding the Linux Kernel, 2nd Ed
Red Hat Linux Bible, Fedora and Enterprise Ed ($7 at Microcenter)
Linux Server Hacks
Obviously I haven't spent much time with them.
Thanks for the references.
Man, you're getting turned. Pretty soon you'll be a full-fledged Linux bozo!
That hurts... that really hurts...:(
ha! There are just too many crappy Linux applications. OpenOffice
isn't there yet.
Still waiting for it to open, huh?
zzzzzzz... snore.... still waiting....
Post by win_not_lin
Post by DFS
The browsers look ridiculously bad - many are just about
impossible to read until I shift the font size up 2 notches.
Everything looks bad in Linux. It's because of the naff font rendering
and the cluttered GUIs.
I think the GNOME desktop looks better than KDE. The browsers seem to look
better under GNOME, too.
Post by win_not_lin
The font issue is weird. How come Linux fonts look so nasty? Is it a
design flaw in X11 or do Linux users really prefer those smudgy things
to the crisp and infinitely more readable fonts in Windows?
There's no doubt whatsoever that screens are crisper and more readable in
Windows. And that's true for cross-platform systems like Pan for Windows,
which uses the gtk for Windows runtime. Pan is much better looking on
Windows than on Linux.
Post by win_not_lin
The only OK-ish fonts I ever rememeber seeing in Linux where in the
virtual terminals, i.e. outside of X11.
Post by DFS
Firefox is best so far.
Probably because it's essentially a Windows app.
Post by DFS
There's no decent replacement for VB or Access, though Borland
Delphi is a maybe.
Wouldn't know.
I meant Kylix.
Post by win_not_lin
Post by DFS
But I was always interested in different OS's, from the beginning.
I ran DR-DOS and OS/2 and even BeOS a little bit. But the world
(corporate and otherwise) went for Windows, and from probably late
'92 onward all the work I did was in Windows db clients and VB.
When you first came here, it was a different story. You just wanted to
get a rise out of the Linux nuts and you were one of the best. Now
you're having polite exchanges about Linux books with a resident Cola bozo.
Let you down a little, huh? Well, sorry, but it's hard to argue about
Linux and Windows for nearly a year solid. It becomes redundant after a few
months of the same topics.

And that's not the first polite exchange I've had with a cola nut. Some of
'em are almost human if you get beneath the nutty Linux veneer.
NoStop
2005-06-17 06:12:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by DFS
There's no doubt whatsoever that screens are crisper and more readable in
Windows. And that's true for cross-platform systems like Pan for Windows,
which uses the gtk for Windows runtime. Pan is much better looking on
Windows than on Linux.
DFS, sorry to say it, but you are full of shit. There's something amiss with
your setup there if you think screens look better in Windoze. My Mandrake
10.1 screens (yes I use dual 19" monitors) look every bit as crisp as on my
XP box. With the added ability to so fully customize my desktop, I'm
running something here that is far more interesting than I could ever
cobble together under Windoze.

Rather than spending your time here bitching about the problems you're
having with Linux, why the hell don't you spend the time fixing your bloody
system? I've already told you where to find help, but haven't noticed your
pointy little head in that other newsgroup.
Post by DFS
Post by win_not_lin
The only OK-ish fonts I ever rememeber seeing in Linux where in the
virtual terminals, i.e. outside of X11.
Post by DFS
Firefox is best so far.
Probably because it's essentially a Windows app.
Post by DFS
There's no decent replacement for VB or Access, though Borland
Delphi is a maybe.
Wouldn't know.
I meant Kylix.
Kylix is a dead animal and hasn't been supported by Borland for years.
Forget it. It won't work properly under Linux. Piss on Borland. That's a
corporation that is too stupid to know whether it's on foot or horseback.
--
Get Microsoft PowerToys for Windows XP here:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx
"A must-have for your Toy Operating System"
amosf
2005-06-17 06:37:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by NoStop
Post by DFS
There's no doubt whatsoever that screens are crisper and more readable in
Windows. And that's true for cross-platform systems like Pan for Windows,
which uses the gtk for Windows runtime. Pan is much better looking on
Windows than on Linux.
DFS, sorry to say it, but you are full of shit. There's something amiss
with your setup there if you think screens look better in Windoze. My
Mandrake 10.1 screens (yes I use dual 19" monitors) look every bit as
crisp as on my XP box. With the added ability to so fully customize my
desktop, I'm running something here that is far more interesting than I
could ever cobble together under Windoze.
Yeah, I don't know what the heck they are talking about either as I can run
both linux and win here and I can't tell tell the difference on the LCD -
which tend to show up that sort of thing even more than the crt... Maybe
it's the community edition that's screwed up or something, but I doubt it.
More likely DuFuS is just lying his arse off.
Post by NoStop
Rather than spending your time here bitching about the problems you're
having with Linux, why the hell don't you spend the time fixing your
bloody system? I've already told you where to find help, but haven't
noticed your pointy little head in that other newsgroup.
He doesn't want to fix it, rather appears to deliberately break it so he can
bitch...
Post by NoStop
Post by DFS
I meant Kylix.
Kylix is a dead animal and hasn't been supported by Borland for years.
Forget it. It won't work properly under Linux. Piss on Borland. That's a
corporation that is too stupid to know whether it's on foot or horseback.
I had Kylix on here for a while. Possibly still have, but didn't use it
much. I think the only thing I did with it was a little play app - like a
hex clock or something... I must admit tho I had an attitude with borland
from the old days with pascal and their stupid compiler that would change
and screw up the exe if you changed comment lines in the code and shit like
that. It was very unpredictable.
--
-
I use linux. Can anyone give me a good reason to use Windows?
-
DFS
2005-06-17 06:39:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by NoStop
Post by DFS
There's no doubt whatsoever that screens are crisper and more
readable in Windows. And that's true for cross-platform systems
like Pan for Windows, which uses the gtk for Windows runtime. Pan
is much better looking on Windows than on Linux.
DFS, sorry to say it, but you are full of shit. There's something
amiss with your setup there if you think screens look better in
Windoze.
Here's my Pan on Windows screenshot:
Loading Image...

Now show me what Pan on Linux looks like (I wiped my Linux partitions
earlier today, but I remember how crappy it looked. Most apps look crappy
on Linux).
Post by NoStop
My Mandrake
10.1 screens (yes I use dual 19" monitors) look every bit as crisp as
on my XP box. With the added ability to so fully customize my
desktop, I'm running something here that is far more interesting than
I could ever cobble together under Windoze.
Let's see a screenshot of your "interesting desktop". I'll rate it on my
puke-o-meter.
Post by NoStop
Rather than spending your time here bitching about the problems you're
having with Linux, why the hell don't you spend the time fixing your
bloody system?
It's not my system that needs fixing. It's Linux.
Post by NoStop
I've already told you where to find help, but haven't
noticed your pointy little head in that other newsgroup.
I might make it over there one of these days. I'm fooling around with
Solaris 10 for i386 and FreeSBIE right now.

For what it's worth, Linux install routines and hardware recognition
generally put them to shame. The Solaris install process on i386 is just
plain pitiful - and so damn slow. FreeSBIE (from the LiveCD) is better, but
it quits on me halfway through. The Mandrake and Suse installs I've done
were a pleasure by comparison - and mostly worked the first time.
Post by NoStop
Post by DFS
Post by win_not_lin
The only OK-ish fonts I ever rememeber seeing in Linux where in the
virtual terminals, i.e. outside of X11.
Post by DFS
Firefox is best so far.
Probably because it's essentially a Windows app.
Post by DFS
There's no decent replacement for VB or Access, though Borland
Delphi is a maybe.
Wouldn't know.
I meant Kylix.
Kylix is a dead animal and hasn't been supported by Borland for years.
You're right. Their FAQ lists it as supported under Red Hat 7.2, MandrakeT
8.2, and SuSE® 7.3.. Those go back like 3 to 4 years. But they're still
selling it on their website.
Post by NoStop
Forget it. It won't work properly under Linux. Piss on Borland.
That's a corporation that is too stupid to know whether it's on foot
or horseback.
Yeah. Too bad, 'cause they used to make really good development tools.
Still do, maybe.
DFS
2005-06-17 06:48:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by DFS
http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfslinux/Pan_on_Windows.PNG
Now show me what Pan on Linux looks like (I wiped my Linux partitions
earlier today, but I remember how crappy it looked. Most apps look
crappy on Linux).
Here's Pan on Linux: Loading Image...

See how smudgy the fonts are compared to the Windows version? Very
irritating.
JS
2005-06-17 06:58:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by DFS
Post by DFS
http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfslinux/Pan_on_Windows.PNG
Now show me what Pan on Linux looks like (I wiped my Linux partitions
earlier today, but I remember how crappy it looked. Most apps look
crappy on Linux).
Here's Pan on Linux: http://pan.rebelbase.com/screenshots/screenshot.png
See how smudgy the fonts are compared to the Windows version? Very
irritating.
Yep. It's kind of like the difference between ball-point ink and a blunt
pencil.

Now watch the Cola bozos deny it, even though the evidence is
incontrovertible.
win_not_lin
2005-06-17 07:00:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by JS
Post by DFS
Post by DFS
http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfslinux/Pan_on_Windows.PNG
Now show me what Pan on Linux looks like (I wiped my Linux partitions
earlier today, but I remember how crappy it looked. Most apps look
crappy on Linux).
Here's Pan on Linux: http://pan.rebelbase.com/screenshots/screenshot.png
See how smudgy the fonts are compared to the Windows version? Very
irritating.
Yep. It's kind of like the difference between ball-point ink and a blunt
pencil.
Now watch the Cola bozos deny it, even though the evidence is
incontrovertible.
That was me, BTW. Changed my name to post in a microsoft.public.* group
but forgot to change it back. No point preaching to the enlightened, huh?
Kier
2005-06-17 08:14:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by win_not_lin
Post by JS
Post by DFS
Post by DFS
http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfslinux/Pan_on_Windows.PNG
Now show me what Pan on Linux looks like (I wiped my Linux partitions
earlier today, but I remember how crappy it looked. Most apps look
crappy on Linux).
Here's Pan on Linux: http://pan.rebelbase.com/screenshots/screenshot.png
See how smudgy the fonts are compared to the Windows version? Very
irritating.
Yep. It's kind of like the difference between ball-point ink and a blunt
pencil.
Now watch the Cola bozos deny it, even though the evidence is
incontrovertible.
That was me, BTW. Changed my name to post in a microsoft.public.* group
but forgot to change it back. No point preaching to the enlightened, huh?
What enlightened? Certainly not the trolls who lie about Linux fonts being
crappy - when they aren't.
--
Kier
amosf
2005-06-17 07:19:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by JS
Post by DFS
Post by DFS
http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfslinux/Pan_on_Windows.PNG
Now show me what Pan on Linux looks like (I wiped my Linux partitions
earlier today, but I remember how crappy it looked. Most apps look
crappy on Linux).
Here's Pan on Linux: http://pan.rebelbase.com/screenshots/screenshot.png
See how smudgy the fonts are compared to the Windows version? Very
irritating.
Yep. It's kind of like the difference between ball-point ink and a blunt
pencil.
Now watch the Cola bozos deny it, even though the evidence is
incontrovertible.
So do you also not know the difference between non-antiliasing and
antialiasing? I can make it look both ways in both OS's You dickheads...

Okay, you guys were right. DuFuS et al are stupid lying trolls, not just
trolls. My mistake. SLT's from now on to save typing...

I love the way they make non-antialiasing sound like a feature... Too funny
guys...
--
-
I use linux. Can anyone give me a good reason to use Windows?
-
win_not_lin
2005-06-17 07:40:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by amosf
Post by JS
Post by DFS
Post by DFS
http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfslinux/Pan_on_Windows.PNG
Now show me what Pan on Linux looks like (I wiped my Linux partitions
earlier today, but I remember how crappy it looked. Most apps look
crappy on Linux).
Here's Pan on Linux: http://pan.rebelbase.com/screenshots/screenshot.png
See how smudgy the fonts are compared to the Windows version? Very
irritating.
Yep. It's kind of like the difference between ball-point ink and a blunt
pencil.
Now watch the Cola bozos deny it, even though the evidence is
incontrovertible.
So do you also not know the difference between non-antiliasing and
antialiasing? I can make it look both ways in both OS's You dickheads...
Don't try and pull that one. The fact is, non-antialised fonts in X11
look absolutely *awful* - I dare anyone to challenge me. So you Linux
bozos have to settle for smudgy fonts because that's all you have.
amosf
2005-06-17 07:58:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by win_not_lin
Post by amosf
Post by JS
Post by DFS
Post by DFS
http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfslinux/Pan_on_Windows.PNG
Now show me what Pan on Linux looks like (I wiped my Linux partitions
earlier today, but I remember how crappy it looked. Most apps look
crappy on Linux).
Here's Pan on Linux: http://pan.rebelbase.com/screenshots/screenshot.png
See how smudgy the fonts are compared to the Windows version? Very
irritating.
Yep. It's kind of like the difference between ball-point ink and a blunt
pencil.
Now watch the Cola bozos deny it, even though the evidence is
incontrovertible.
So do you also not know the difference between non-antiliasing and
antialiasing? I can make it look both ways in both OS's You dickheads...
Don't try and pull that one. The fact is, non-antialised fonts in X11
look absolutely *awful* - I dare anyone to challenge me. So you Linux
bozos have to settle for smudgy fonts because that's all you have.
non-antialiased font look aweful anywhere - like the Pan image DuFuS just
posted on windows. The fonts are not to my taste at all there. You like 'em
blocky, then go for it...
--
-
I use linux. Can anyone give me a good reason to use Windows?
-
Kier
2005-06-17 08:14:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by win_not_lin
Post by amosf
Post by JS
Post by DFS
Post by DFS
http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfslinux/Pan_on_Windows.PNG
Now show me what Pan on Linux looks like (I wiped my Linux partitions
earlier today, but I remember how crappy it looked. Most apps look
crappy on Linux).
Here's Pan on Linux: http://pan.rebelbase.com/screenshots/screenshot.png
See how smudgy the fonts are compared to the Windows version? Very
irritating.
Yep. It's kind of like the difference between ball-point ink and a blunt
pencil.
Now watch the Cola bozos deny it, even though the evidence is
incontrovertible.
So do you also not know the difference between non-antiliasing and
antialiasing? I can make it look both ways in both OS's You dickheads...
Don't try and pull that one. The fact is, non-antialised fonts in X11
look absolutely *awful* - I dare anyone to challenge me. So you Linux
bozos have to settle for smudgy fonts because that's all you have.
Lie.
--
Kier
William Poaster
2005-06-17 11:22:39 UTC
Permalink
begin OEKillFileMe.vbs It was on Fri, 17 Jun 2005 08:40:02 +0100, that
Post by amosf
So do you also not know the difference between non-antiliasing and
antialiasing? I can make it look both ways in both OS's You dickheads...
Don't try and pull that one. The fact is, non-antialised fonts in X11 look
absolutely *awful* - I dare anyone to challenge me. So you Linux bozos
have to settle for smudgy fonts because that's all you have.
Bullshit, as usual.
--
When I hear of a long time smoker dying of lung cancer
I think "That's too bad, but they made their choices".
When I hear about companies gettings screwed by Microsoft,
I think the same thing. -- Anon
Peggy Wanka
2005-06-17 14:41:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Poaster
Bullshit, as usual.
Typical Willy Poser.
Kier
2005-06-17 14:54:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peggy Wanka
Post by William Poaster
Bullshit, as usual.
Typical Willy Poser.
<sigh> I see you're back again. Don't you ever get tired of being the most
despised and derided troll on both sides of the Atlantic?
--
Kier
Peggy Wanka
2005-06-17 15:12:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kier
Post by Peggy Wanka
Post by William Poaster
Bullshit, as usual.
Typical Willy Poser.
<sigh> I see you're back again. Don't you ever get tired of being the
most despised and derided troll on both sides of the Atlantic?
Nope.
Kier
2005-06-17 15:17:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kier
Post by Peggy Wanka
Post by William Poaster
Bullshit, as usual.
Typical Willy Poser.
<sigh> I see you're back again. Don't you ever get tired of being the
most despised and derided troll on both sides of the Atlantic?
Nope.
Pity. You'd spare us all a lot of tedium if you buggered off.
--
Kier
Peggy Wanka
2005-06-17 16:05:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kier
Post by Kier
Post by Peggy Wanka
Post by William Poaster
Bullshit, as usual.
Typical Willy Poser.
<sigh> I see you're back again. Don't you ever get tired of being the
most despised and derided troll on both sides of the Atlantic?
Nope.
Pity. You'd spare us all a lot of tedium if you buggered off.
If you should be so kind as to neck yourself, I'll be more than happy to
do so.
Kier
2005-06-17 16:28:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peggy Wanka
Post by Kier
Post by Kier
Post by Peggy Wanka
Post by William Poaster
Bullshit, as usual.
Typical Willy Poser.
<sigh> I see you're back again. Don't you ever get tired of being the
most despised and derided troll on both sides of the Atlantic?
Nope.
Pity. You'd spare us all a lot of tedium if you buggered off.
If you should be so kind as to neck yourself, I'll be more than happy to
do so.
No thanks. I belong in COLA, being a Linux advocate. You don't.
--
Kier
chrisv
2005-06-17 18:20:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peggy Wanka
Typical Willy Poser.
*plonk*
Kier
2005-06-17 08:13:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by JS
Post by DFS
Post by DFS
http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfslinux/Pan_on_Windows.PNG
Now show me what Pan on Linux looks like (I wiped my Linux partitions
earlier today, but I remember how crappy it looked. Most apps look
crappy on Linux).
Here's Pan on Linux: http://pan.rebelbase.com/screenshots/screenshot.png
See how smudgy the fonts are compared to the Windows version? Very
irritating.
Yep. It's kind of like the difference between ball-point ink and a blunt
pencil.
Now watch the Cola bozos deny it, even though the evidence is
incontrovertible.
No, it isn't. The Linux font problem is solved.
--
Kier
amosf
2005-06-17 07:14:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by DFS
Post by DFS
http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfslinux/Pan_on_Windows.PNG
Now show me what Pan on Linux looks like (I wiped my Linux partitions
earlier today, but I remember how crappy it looked. Most apps look
crappy on Linux).
Here's Pan on Linux: http://pan.rebelbase.com/screenshots/screenshot.png
See how smudgy the fonts are compared to the Windows version? Very
irritating.
Ah, so finally we see the problem... That's all very well, DuFuS, but I hate
to tell you this - I PREFER the linux version...

Actually not completely true. I prefer the anti-aliasing switched on. You
can switch it off in linux if you want, but you probably already know that
and are just trolling. Likewise you can swich on anti-aliasing in windows.

I don't like the chunky look of non-anti-aliasing these days and use
anti-aliasing in both windows and linux.

To my personal preference it seems nuts to prefer the 'windows' screenshot
you sent, but that's a personal preference. That's why they give you the
choice in linux to use this or not.

You really are a wanker, DuFuS.
--
-
I use linux. Can anyone give me a good reason to use Windows?
-
amosf
2005-06-17 08:06:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by DFS
Post by DFS
http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfslinux/Pan_on_Windows.PNG
Now show me what Pan on Linux looks like (I wiped my Linux partitions
earlier today, but I remember how crappy it looked. Most apps look
crappy on Linux).
Here's Pan on Linux: http://pan.rebelbase.com/screenshots/screenshot.png
See how smudgy the fonts are compared to the Windows version? Very
irritating.
BTW, this is my newsreader, complete with the 'smudgy' (anti-aliasing)
fonts, the way I prefer it... But I don't use Pan...

Loading Image...

You may feel free to puke as much as you like as the desktop look is a very
personal thing. I didn't like the look of your Pan on Windows at all
either... And I change the look here from time to time as the mood takes
me... I'll post the old 'Bill Gates' desktop some time... Hold on, here it
is... And yep, I'm sure it's some copyright infringement, tho at least I
bought the DVD...

http://www.pbase.com/amosf/image/32783799
--
-
I use linux. Can anyone give me a good reason to use Windows?
-
Jeff_Relf
2005-06-17 08:47:44 UTC
Permalink
Hi Amosf, DFS and NoStop,

All this talk of desktops reminds me that I don't use desktops.
So I can only show how certain apps look.

For example, this is what it looks like when I'm in Visual_Studio
posting_to/editing/searching/browsing Comp.OS.Linux.Advocacy:
Loading Image...
Kier
2005-06-17 08:50:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by amosf
Post by DFS
Post by DFS
http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfslinux/Pan_on_Windows.PNG
Now show me what Pan on Linux looks like (I wiped my Linux partitions
earlier today, but I remember how crappy it looked. Most apps look
crappy on Linux).
Here's Pan on Linux: http://pan.rebelbase.com/screenshots/screenshot.png
See how smudgy the fonts are compared to the Windows version? Very
irritating.
BTW, this is my newsreader, complete with the 'smudgy' (anti-aliasing)
fonts, the way I prefer it... But I don't use Pan...
http://www.bcs4me.com/desktop2005-1.png
I honestly don't see how *anyone* can look at *that* screenshot and say
the fonts are 'smudgy' or 'ugly', unless they need their eyes testing (or
possibly their brains).

It's a nice screenshot, BTW.
--
Kier
Kier
2005-06-17 08:12:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by DFS
Post by DFS
http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfslinux/Pan_on_Windows.PNG
Now show me what Pan on Linux looks like (I wiped my Linux partitions
earlier today, but I remember how crappy it looked. Most apps look
crappy on Linux).
Here's Pan on Linux: http://pan.rebelbase.com/screenshots/screenshot.png
See how smudgy the fonts are compared to the Windows version? Very
irritating.
Quite honestly, I don't know what you're talking about. The first
screenshot (Windows) looked worse. Maybe you should try getting your eyes
tested - either that or look with an honest eye.

The font problems on Linux have been solved. Hell, in the book 'Linux
Desktop Hacks' the author says: (after talking about Gnome and KDE) "In a
more general sense, the Linux desktop has improved dramatically in all
other aspects. *Linux fonts are now downright beautiful.*" (Emphasis mine).
--
Kier
DFS
2005-06-17 11:07:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kier
Post by DFS
Post by DFS
http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfslinux/Pan_on_Windows.PNG
Now show me what Pan on Linux looks like (I wiped my Linux
partitions earlier today, but I remember how crappy it looked.
Most apps look crappy on Linux).
http://pan.rebelbase.com/screenshots/screenshot.png
See how smudgy the fonts are compared to the Windows version? Very
irritating.
Quite honestly, I don't know what you're talking about. The first
screenshot (Windows) looked worse. Maybe you should try getting your
eyes tested - either that or look with an honest eye.
Maybe you should try loading both screenshots in a browser, in separate
tabs, where you can switch back and forth between them easily and where the
glaring superiority of the Windows shot will become evident.
Post by Kier
The font problems on Linux have been solved. Hell, in the book 'Linux
Desktop Hacks' the author says: (after talking about Gnome and KDE)
"In a more general sense, the Linux desktop has improved dramatically
in all other aspects. *Linux fonts are now downright beautiful.*"
(Emphasis mine).
If they have been solved, nobody told Mandrake 10.1 CE, 'cause my default
fonts were, in many cases, horrible.
Kier
2005-06-17 11:25:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by DFS
Post by Kier
Post by DFS
Post by DFS
http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfslinux/Pan_on_Windows.PNG
Now show me what Pan on Linux looks like (I wiped my Linux
partitions earlier today, but I remember how crappy it looked.
Most apps look crappy on Linux).
http://pan.rebelbase.com/screenshots/screenshot.png
See how smudgy the fonts are compared to the Windows version? Very
irritating.
Quite honestly, I don't know what you're talking about. The first
screenshot (Windows) looked worse. Maybe you should try getting your
eyes tested - either that or look with an honest eye.
Maybe you should try loading both screenshots in a browser, in separate
tabs, where you can switch back and forth between them easily and where the
glaring superiority of the Windows shot will become evident.
That's just the point - the supposed glaringly obvious superiority just
isn't there. Your Windows screenshot looked ugly and jagged. If you like
it that way, fine, but don't pretend that's better than Linux fonts,
'cause it certainly ain't on my machines.
Post by DFS
Post by Kier
The font problems on Linux have been solved. Hell, in the book 'Linux
Desktop Hacks' the author says: (after talking about Gnome and KDE)
"In a more general sense, the Linux desktop has improved dramatically
in all other aspects. *Linux fonts are now downright beautiful.*"
(Emphasis mine).
If they have been solved, nobody told Mandrake 10.1 CE, 'cause my default
fonts were, in many cases, horrible.
Have you turned on anti-aliasing? Fonts are a non-issue on Linux now, and
have been for some time.
--
Kier
DFS
2005-06-17 11:38:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kier
Post by DFS
Post by Kier
Post by DFS
Post by DFS
http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfslinux/Pan_on_Windows.PNG
Now show me what Pan on Linux looks like (I wiped my Linux
partitions earlier today, but I remember how crappy it looked.
Most apps look crappy on Linux).
http://pan.rebelbase.com/screenshots/screenshot.png
See how smudgy the fonts are compared to the Windows version?
Very irritating.
Quite honestly, I don't know what you're talking about. The first
screenshot (Windows) looked worse. Maybe you should try getting your
eyes tested - either that or look with an honest eye.
Maybe you should try loading both screenshots in a browser, in
separate tabs, where you can switch back and forth between them
easily and where the glaring superiority of the Windows shot will
become evident.
That's just the point - the supposed glaringly obvious superiority
just isn't there. Your Windows screenshot looked ugly and jagged. If
you like it that way, fine, but don't pretend that's better than
Linux fonts, 'cause it certainly ain't on my machines.
Post by DFS
Post by Kier
The font problems on Linux have been solved. Hell, in the book
'Linux Desktop Hacks' the author says: (after talking about Gnome
and KDE) "In a more general sense, the Linux desktop has improved
dramatically in all other aspects. *Linux fonts are now downright
beautiful.*" (Emphasis mine).
If they have been solved, nobody told Mandrake 10.1 CE, 'cause my
default fonts were, in many cases, horrible.
Have you turned on anti-aliasing?
I don't think I did. Nor did I in Windows. I just used the default install
settings.
Post by Kier
Fonts are a non-issue on Linux now,
and have been for some time.
The default appearance is an issue. At least in Mandrake.

I notice many Linux app - browsers, newsreaders, etc - have their own font
settings. If turning on anti-aliasing (in KDE or GNOME, I assume) flows
through to all apps, good deal. Hopefully you don't have to set it for
each app that offers it.
win_not_lin
2005-06-17 11:46:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by DFS
Post by Kier
Post by DFS
Post by Kier
Post by DFS
Post by DFS
http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfslinux/Pan_on_Windows.PNG
Now show me what Pan on Linux looks like (I wiped my Linux
partitions earlier today, but I remember how crappy it looked.
Most apps look crappy on Linux).
http://pan.rebelbase.com/screenshots/screenshot.png
See how smudgy the fonts are compared to the Windows version?
Very irritating.
Quite honestly, I don't know what you're talking about. The first
screenshot (Windows) looked worse. Maybe you should try getting your
eyes tested - either that or look with an honest eye.
Maybe you should try loading both screenshots in a browser, in
separate tabs, where you can switch back and forth between them
easily and where the glaring superiority of the Windows shot will
become evident.
That's just the point - the supposed glaringly obvious superiority
just isn't there. Your Windows screenshot looked ugly and jagged. If
you like it that way, fine, but don't pretend that's better than
Linux fonts, 'cause it certainly ain't on my machines.
Post by DFS
Post by Kier
The font problems on Linux have been solved. Hell, in the book
'Linux Desktop Hacks' the author says: (after talking about Gnome
and KDE) "In a more general sense, the Linux desktop has improved
dramatically in all other aspects. *Linux fonts are now downright
beautiful.*" (Emphasis mine).
If they have been solved, nobody told Mandrake 10.1 CE, 'cause my
default fonts were, in many cases, horrible.
Have you turned on anti-aliasing?
Note the admission that non-antialised fonts in Linux look naff.
Post by DFS
I don't think I did. Nor did I in Windows. I just used the default install
settings.
Post by Kier
Fonts are a non-issue on Linux now,
and have been for some time.
Only for people in denial, or people who've forgotten what decent fonts
look like.
Post by DFS
The default appearance is an issue. At least in Mandrake.
I notice many Linux app - browsers, newsreaders, etc - have their own font
settings. If turning on anti-aliasing (in KDE or GNOME, I assume) flows
through to all apps, good deal. Hopefully you don't have to set it for
each app that offers it.
Like everything in Linux it's complete chaos, and it's anybody's guess
where a particular feature is controlled. GNOME and KDE try to take
global control of fonts but they have to wrestle with X11, each
individual app and half a dozen GUI toolkits. Not surprisingly, it
doesn't always work, so don't expect the least bit consistency when it
comes to fonts in Linux.
Kier
2005-06-17 12:03:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by win_not_lin
Post by DFS
Post by Kier
Post by DFS
Post by Kier
Post by DFS
Post by DFS
http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfslinux/Pan_on_Windows.PNG
Now show me what Pan on Linux looks like (I wiped my Linux
partitions earlier today, but I remember how crappy it looked.
Most apps look crappy on Linux).
http://pan.rebelbase.com/screenshots/screenshot.png
See how smudgy the fonts are compared to the Windows version?
Very irritating.
Quite honestly, I don't know what you're talking about. The first
screenshot (Windows) looked worse. Maybe you should try getting your
eyes tested - either that or look with an honest eye.
Maybe you should try loading both screenshots in a browser, in
separate tabs, where you can switch back and forth between them
easily and where the glaring superiority of the Windows shot will
become evident.
That's just the point - the supposed glaringly obvious superiority
just isn't there. Your Windows screenshot looked ugly and jagged. If
you like it that way, fine, but don't pretend that's better than
Linux fonts, 'cause it certainly ain't on my machines.
Post by DFS
Post by Kier
The font problems on Linux have been solved. Hell, in the book
'Linux Desktop Hacks' the author says: (after talking about Gnome
and KDE) "In a more general sense, the Linux desktop has improved
dramatically in all other aspects. *Linux fonts are now downright
beautiful.*" (Emphasis mine).
If they have been solved, nobody told Mandrake 10.1 CE, 'cause my
default fonts were, in many cases, horrible.
Have you turned on anti-aliasing?
Note the admission that non-antialised fonts in Linux look naff.
I made no admission whatever. Non-anti-aliased fonts look crap in any OS.
Unless of course you like jagged ugly fonts.
Post by win_not_lin
Post by DFS
I don't think I did. Nor did I in Windows. I just used the default install
settings.
Post by Kier
Fonts are a non-issue on Linux now,
and have been for some time.
Only for people in denial, or people who've forgotten what decent fonts
look like.
Oh don't talk bollocks. Youre the one denying the truth. There is nothing
wrong with Linux wrt fonts. And you know it. I'm really tired of reading
stale, dishonest stuff like 'Linux fonts are crap'.
Post by win_not_lin
Post by DFS
The default appearance is an issue. At least in Mandrake.
I notice many Linux app - browsers, newsreaders, etc - have their own font
settings. If turning on anti-aliasing (in KDE or GNOME, I assume) flows
through to all apps, good deal. Hopefully you don't have to set it for
each app that offers it.
Like everything in Linux it's complete chaos, and it's anybody's guess
where a particular feature is controlled. GNOME and KDE try to take
global control of fonts but they have to wrestle with X11, each
individual app and half a dozen GUI toolkits. Not surprisingly, it
doesn't always work, so don't expect the least bit consistency when it
comes to fonts in Linux.
Look, pal, why don't you shove off? You calim to be a Linux user, yet
spend all your time slagging it off, and frankly, lying your head off.
It's getting boring.
--
Kier
amosf
2005-06-17 12:20:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by win_not_lin
Post by DFS
Post by Kier
Post by DFS
Post by Kier
Post by DFS
Post by DFS
http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfslinux/Pan_on_Windows.PNG
Now show me what Pan on Linux looks like (I wiped my Linux
partitions earlier today, but I remember how crappy it looked.
Most apps look crappy on Linux).
http://pan.rebelbase.com/screenshots/screenshot.png
See how smudgy the fonts are compared to the Windows version?
Very irritating.
Quite honestly, I don't know what you're talking about. The first
screenshot (Windows) looked worse. Maybe you should try getting your
eyes tested - either that or look with an honest eye.
Maybe you should try loading both screenshots in a browser, in
separate tabs, where you can switch back and forth between them
easily and where the glaring superiority of the Windows shot will
become evident.
That's just the point - the supposed glaringly obvious superiority
just isn't there. Your Windows screenshot looked ugly and jagged. If
you like it that way, fine, but don't pretend that's better than
Linux fonts, 'cause it certainly ain't on my machines.
Post by DFS
Post by Kier
The font problems on Linux have been solved. Hell, in the book
'Linux Desktop Hacks' the author says: (after talking about Gnome
and KDE) "In a more general sense, the Linux desktop has improved
dramatically in all other aspects. *Linux fonts are now downright
beautiful.*" (Emphasis mine).
If they have been solved, nobody told Mandrake 10.1 CE, 'cause my
default fonts were, in many cases, horrible.
Have you turned on anti-aliasing?
Note the admission that non-antialised fonts in Linux look naff.
And the wankers cheer squad who also is clueless about antialiasing. You
want it chunky then switch it off and linux can look like that chunky
windows shot. Dickhead.

I prefer the antialiasing, thanks.
Post by win_not_lin
Post by DFS
I don't think I did. Nor did I in Windows. I just used the default
install settings.
Post by Kier
Fonts are a non-issue on Linux now,
and have been for some time.
Only for people in denial, or people who've forgotten what decent fonts
look like.
We can see than side by side, wanker. You want it chunky than have it. Go
back to windows 3.1 while you are at it, dickhead.
Post by win_not_lin
Post by DFS
The default appearance is an issue. At least in Mandrake.
I notice many Linux app - browsers, newsreaders, etc - have their own font
settings. If turning on anti-aliasing (in KDE or GNOME, I assume) flows
through to all apps, good deal. Hopefully you don't have to set it for
each app that offers it.
Like everything in Linux it's complete chaos, and it's anybody's guess
where a particular feature is controlled. GNOME and KDE try to take
global control of fonts but they have to wrestle with X11, each
individual app and half a dozen GUI toolkits. Not surprisingly, it
doesn't always work, so don't expect the least bit consistency when it
comes to fonts in Linux.
Seems to be a clearly displayed option in my centralized KDE config here,
dickhead. Another stupid lying troll that doesn't know anti-aliasing when
he sees it. I got a good laugh out of this one.
--
-
I use linux. Can anyone give me a good reason to use Windows?
-
Kier
2005-06-17 11:53:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by DFS
Post by Kier
Post by DFS
Post by Kier
Post by DFS
Post by DFS
http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfslinux/Pan_on_Windows.PNG
Now show me what Pan on Linux looks like (I wiped my Linux
partitions earlier today, but I remember how crappy it looked.
Most apps look crappy on Linux).
http://pan.rebelbase.com/screenshots/screenshot.png
See how smudgy the fonts are compared to the Windows version?
Very irritating.
Quite honestly, I don't know what you're talking about. The first
screenshot (Windows) looked worse. Maybe you should try getting your
eyes tested - either that or look with an honest eye.
Maybe you should try loading both screenshots in a browser, in
separate tabs, where you can switch back and forth between them
easily and where the glaring superiority of the Windows shot will
become evident.
That's just the point - the supposed glaringly obvious superiority
just isn't there. Your Windows screenshot looked ugly and jagged. If
you like it that way, fine, but don't pretend that's better than
Linux fonts, 'cause it certainly ain't on my machines.
Post by DFS
Post by Kier
The font problems on Linux have been solved. Hell, in the book
'Linux Desktop Hacks' the author says: (after talking about Gnome
and KDE) "In a more general sense, the Linux desktop has improved
dramatically in all other aspects. *Linux fonts are now downright
beautiful.*" (Emphasis mine).
If they have been solved, nobody told Mandrake 10.1 CE, 'cause my
default fonts were, in many cases, horrible.
Have you turned on anti-aliasing?
I don't think I did. Nor did I in Windows. I just used the default install
settings.
Maybe that's your problem with Linux, then. Whenever I make a default, or
indeed any other install, practically the first thing I do is tweak the
look and feel to my own preferences.
Post by DFS
Post by Kier
Fonts are a non-issue on Linux now,
and have been for some time.
The default appearance is an issue. At least in Mandrake.
If so, it's a simple matter to change it.
Post by DFS
I notice many Linux app - browsers, newsreaders, etc - have their own font
settings. If turning on anti-aliasing (in KDE or GNOME, I assume) flows
through to all apps, good deal. Hopefully you don't have to set it for
each app that offers it.
I don't know about Gnome (I rarely use it these days) but in KDE, it
appears you can enable it globally, and also specify a range of fonts
which won't be anti-aliased. You can also use sub-pixel hinting (though to
be homest I've no idea what that is!).

However, the help file states: "The ability to use Anti-Aliased fonst and
icons requires that you have support in both X and the Qt toolkit, and
that you have suitable fonts installed, and are using the built-in font
serving capabilities of the X server."

If you haven't touched anything from the defaults, then probably you're
okay with the caveat above. So try anti-aliasing, and perhaps excluding
above and below a certain range, and see what you get.
--
Kier
amosf
2005-06-17 12:14:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by DFS
Post by Kier
Post by DFS
Post by Kier
Post by DFS
Post by DFS
http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfslinux/Pan_on_Windows.PNG
Now show me what Pan on Linux looks like (I wiped my Linux
partitions earlier today, but I remember how crappy it looked.
Most apps look crappy on Linux).
http://pan.rebelbase.com/screenshots/screenshot.png
See how smudgy the fonts are compared to the Windows version?
Very irritating.
Quite honestly, I don't know what you're talking about. The first
screenshot (Windows) looked worse. Maybe you should try getting your
eyes tested - either that or look with an honest eye.
Maybe you should try loading both screenshots in a browser, in
separate tabs, where you can switch back and forth between them
easily and where the glaring superiority of the Windows shot will
become evident.
That's just the point - the supposed glaringly obvious superiority
just isn't there. Your Windows screenshot looked ugly and jagged. If
you like it that way, fine, but don't pretend that's better than
Linux fonts, 'cause it certainly ain't on my machines.
Post by DFS
Post by Kier
The font problems on Linux have been solved. Hell, in the book
'Linux Desktop Hacks' the author says: (after talking about Gnome
and KDE) "In a more general sense, the Linux desktop has improved
dramatically in all other aspects. *Linux fonts are now downright
beautiful.*" (Emphasis mine).
If they have been solved, nobody told Mandrake 10.1 CE, 'cause my
default fonts were, in many cases, horrible.
Have you turned on anti-aliasing?
I don't think I did. Nor did I in Windows. I just used the default
install settings.
How about the defaults, dickhead. Default antialiasing in linux and the
default non-antialiasing in windows. Fucking wanker.
Post by DFS
Post by Kier
Fonts are a non-issue on Linux now,
and have been for some time.
The default appearance is an issue. At least in Mandrake.
I notice many Linux app - browsers, newsreaders, etc - have their own font
settings. If turning on anti-aliasing (in KDE or GNOME, I assume) flows
through to all apps, good deal. Hopefully you don't have to set it for
each app that offers it.
Go fuck yourself you stupid lying troll. Trying turning antialising on in
windows and off in linux you fucking dickhead.

Stupidest fucking troll ever, DUFUS.
--
-
I use linux. Can anyone give me a good reason to use Windows?
-
amosf
2005-06-17 12:10:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by DFS
Post by Kier
Post by DFS
Post by DFS
http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfslinux/Pan_on_Windows.PNG
Now show me what Pan on Linux looks like (I wiped my Linux
partitions earlier today, but I remember how crappy it looked.
Most apps look crappy on Linux).
http://pan.rebelbase.com/screenshots/screenshot.png
See how smudgy the fonts are compared to the Windows version? Very
irritating.
Quite honestly, I don't know what you're talking about. The first
screenshot (Windows) looked worse. Maybe you should try getting your
eyes tested - either that or look with an honest eye.
Maybe you should try loading both screenshots in a browser, in separate
tabs, where you can switch back and forth between them easily and where
the glaring superiority of the Windows shot will become evident.
You've wanked off one too many times here, DuFuS... I have them in separate
tabs. Click Click. Non-Antialiasing, antialiasing, non-antialiasing,
antialiasing, non-antialiasing, antialiasing, non-antialiasing, etc...

Okay, so you like it that way. It's a matter of opinion that you prefer
non-antialiasing, but not everyone might be like that, huh...

Are you really that fucked up. Nope, you're an SLT... You can troll and
avoid the obvious all you want, but this has put you deep in the SLT camp
now.
Post by DFS
Post by Kier
The font problems on Linux have been solved. Hell, in the book 'Linux
Desktop Hacks' the author says: (after talking about Gnome and KDE)
"In a more general sense, the Linux desktop has improved dramatically
in all other aspects. *Linux fonts are now downright beautiful.*"
(Emphasis mine).
If they have been solved, nobody told Mandrake 10.1 CE, 'cause my default
fonts were, in many cases, horrible.
Go wank off some more, dickhead. Go fucking troll alt.wankers for a while.
--
-
I use linux. Can anyone give me a good reason to use Windows?
-
Kelsey Bjarnason
2005-06-18 05:37:00 UTC
Permalink
[snips]
Post by Kier
Post by DFS
See how smudgy the fonts are compared to the Windows version? Very
irritating.
Quite honestly, I don't know what you're talking about. The first
screenshot (Windows) looked worse.
Depends what one prefers, partly. Without anti-aliasing, the Windows
shot suffers severe "jaggies", most notable on the uppercase M and V.
With anti-aliasing, the Linux version suffers slight smearing, most
notable on the lower-case e and s.

The non-aa fonts look "crisper", but the aa fonts look "smoother".
Which is "better" is a matter of choice... but what DuFuS is too stupid
to realize, apparently, is that both Windows and Linux allow you to set
whether to use anti-aliasing or not... and you generally have somewhat
more control in the Linux side, such as not using AA for fonts in a
given size range.

I happen to like "smoother" rather than "crisper", but there's nothing
actually inherently wrong with preferring the "crisper" look.
Kier
2005-06-18 09:51:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kelsey Bjarnason
[snips]
Post by Kier
Post by DFS
See how smudgy the fonts are compared to the Windows version? Very
irritating.
Quite honestly, I don't know what you're talking about. The first
screenshot (Windows) looked worse.
Depends what one prefers, partly. Without anti-aliasing, the Windows
shot suffers severe "jaggies", most notable on the uppercase M and V.
With anti-aliasing, the Linux version suffers slight smearing, most
notable on the lower-case e and s.
I definitely prefer smooth rather than jagged. If he prefers to thinnk of
it as smudgy, well...

<snip>
--
Kier
Tim Smith
2005-06-17 08:19:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by DFS
Post by DFS
http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfslinux/Pan_on_Windows.PNG
Now show me what Pan on Linux looks like (I wiped my Linux partitions
earlier today, but I remember how crappy it looked. Most apps look
crappy on Linux).
Here's Pan on Linux: http://pan.rebelbase.com/screenshots/screenshot.png
See how smudgy the fonts are compared to the Windows version? Very
irritating.
It looks like the antialiasing is a little off there, which is why the
Windows one looks a little better. However, the Windows one doesn't
look as good as text with good antialiasing. Here's the same article
from your screenshot, with good antialiasing:

<Loading Image...>
--
--Tim Smith
Gordon
2005-06-17 11:39:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by DFS
Post by NoStop
Post by DFS
There's no doubt whatsoever that screens are crisper and more
readable in Windows. And that's true for cross-platform systems
like Pan for Windows, which uses the gtk for Windows runtime. Pan
is much better looking on Windows than on Linux.
DFS, sorry to say it, but you are full of shit. There's something
amiss with your setup there if you think screens look better in
Windoze.
http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfslinux/Pan_on_Windows.PNG
Now show me what Pan on Linux looks like (I wiped my Linux partitions
earlier today, but I remember how crappy it looked. Most apps look crappy
on Linux).
On my 15" LCD screen, there's no discernable difference between the
appearance of Pan on either XP SP2 or on Fedora Core 4
William Poaster
2005-06-17 11:20:39 UTC
Permalink
begin OEKillFileMe.vbs It was on Fri, 17 Jun 2005 02:39:07 -0400, that
Post by DFS
Post by NoStop
Rather than spending your time here bitching about the problems you're
having with Linux, why the hell don't you spend the time fixing your
bloody system?
It's not my system that needs fixing. It's Linux.
An old saying about a bad workman, tools, etc, comes to mind.
--
When I hear of a long time smoker dying of lung cancer
I think "That's too bad, but they made their choices".
When I hear about companies gettings screwed by Microsoft,
I think the same thing. -- Anon
Gordon
2005-06-17 11:36:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by DFS
Post by win_not_lin
Post by DFS
Post by win_not_lin
Post by DFS
Running Linux, 4th Ed
Understanding the Linux Kernel, 2nd Ed
Red Hat Linux Bible, Fedora and Enterprise Ed ($7 at Microcenter)
Linux Server Hacks
Obviously I haven't spent much time with them.
Thanks for the references.
Man, you're getting turned. Pretty soon you'll be a full-fledged Linux bozo!
That hurts... that really hurts...:(
ha! There are just too many crappy Linux applications. OpenOffice
isn't there yet.
Still waiting for it to open, huh?
zzzzzzz... snore.... still waiting....
just installed FC4 with Open Office 2.o Beta. First impressiona are that OO
2 opens as fast as Excel 2003.
Kier
2005-06-16 19:30:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by DFS
Post by Kier
Here's a list of some of the Linux-related books I own, and have found
useful. Maybe if you spend more time reading than you do trolling
here, you'll learn something and be motivated to become a genuine
Linux user.
'How Linux Works - what every superuser should know.' Brian Ward (No
Starch Press)
The No Starch books are good value for money, well laid out and readable.
Never heard of No Starch Press.
www.nostarch.com should take you there. They're quite distinctive once you
know them, a nice no-nonsense sort of design with a yellow black and grey
colour scheme
Post by DFS
Post by Kier
'Linux Cookbook - tips and techniques for everyday use.' Michael
Stutz (No Starch Press)
There's a new edition out, mine is an older one, and slightly out of
date but still very usable. Mainly focused on Debian, and the command
line, but no less valuable for that.
'Knoppix Hacks - 100 Industrial-Strength tips and tools.' Kyle Rankin
(O'Reilly)
A fun book of things to do with your Knoppix CD, including a guide to
remastering.
'Linux in a Nutshell - a quick desktop reference.' Ellen Siver,
Stephen Figgins, Aaron Weber (O'Reilly)
Got this second-hand recently, as it's the 4th edition, not the
latest. Packed with information on Linux commands both common and
obscure: "With this book, you'll no longer have to grope through long
manpages and info documents for the information you need; you'll find
it here in clear language and an easy-to-read format." (Quoted from
back cover)
It's a weighty tome, but well worth the money.
Yeah, the ...Nutshell books are good. And the O'Reilly books in general.
Java in a Nutshell is a really good reference book.
They're good books, and I like the O'Reilly covers, especially the old
cowboy ones.

The Knoppix Hacks book is one I got for Christmas. It's just the sort of
book to give a youngster interested in Linux, just substitute the latest
Knnoppix disc for the one given away in the back (it's slightly out of
date now that Knoppix is up to 3.9).
Post by DFS
Running Linux, 4th Ed
Understanding the Linux Kernel, 2nd Ed
Red Hat Linux Bible, Fedora and Enterprise Ed ($7 at Microcenter)
Linux Server Hacks
Obviously I haven't spent much time with them.
Yeah, I had the Red Hat Bible for RH 9.0, the distro came with it, a
publishers edition. That's when I was still a Red Hat user. Not a bad
book; but I was seduced by Mandrake again not long after.
Post by DFS
Thanks for the references.
You're welcome.
--
Kier
Peter
2005-06-17 00:24:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kier
Here's a list of some of the Linux-related books I own, and have found
useful. Maybe if you spend more time reading than you do trolling here,
you'll learn something and be motivated to become a genuine Linux user.
You are too kind.

How about "Linux for Dummies".
Tim Smith
2005-06-17 01:55:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter
You are too kind.
How about "Linux for Dummies".
Have you read it?
--
--Tim Smith
Kier
2005-06-17 08:04:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter
Post by Kier
Here's a list of some of the Linux-related books I own, and have found
useful. Maybe if you spend more time reading than you do trolling here,
you'll learn something and be motivated to become a genuine Linux user.
You are too kind.
How about "Linux for Dummies".
Despite the name, the 'Dummies' books are pretty good, I've got a couple
of their computer books, just not Linux ones.
--
Kier
William Poaster
2005-06-17 11:18:12 UTC
Permalink
begin OEKillFileMe.vbs It was on Fri, 17 Jun 2005 09:04:02 +0100, that
Post by Kier
Post by Peter
Post by Kier
Here's a list of some of the Linux-related books I own, and have found
useful. Maybe if you spend more time reading than you do trolling here,
you'll learn something and be motivated to become a genuine Linux user.
You are too kind.
How about "Linux for Dummies".
Despite the name, the 'Dummies' books are pretty good, I've got a couple
of their computer books, just not Linux ones.
On a comedy show last night, someone was reading "Computers for Cretins",
& it looked suspiciously like a yellow "Dummies" jacket! Maybe DFS should
buy that?
--
When I hear of a long time smoker dying of lung cancer
I think "That's too bad, but they made their choices".
When I hear about companies gettings screwed by Microsoft,
I think the same thing. -- Anon
Kelsey Bjarnason
2005-06-17 10:59:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kier
Here's a list of some of the Linux-related books I own, and have found
useful. Maybe if you spend more time reading than you do trolling here,
you'll learn something and be motivated to become a genuine Linux user.
Hmm, I didn't see "The Dick and Jane Linux Reader", so I'm not sure you
have anything quite suited to his capabilities. Don't forget, he can't
even cope with pointy-clicky interfaces such as his distro's package
manager; anything without sufficient pictures is going to be a major
problem for him.
DFS
2005-06-17 11:41:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kelsey Bjarnason
Post by Kier
Here's a list of some of the Linux-related books I own, and have
found useful. Maybe if you spend more time reading than you do
trolling here, you'll learn something and be motivated to become a
genuine Linux user.
Hmm, I didn't see "The Dick and Jane Linux Reader", so I'm not sure
you have anything quite suited to his capabilities. Don't forget, he
can't even cope with pointy-clicky interfaces such as his distro's
package manager; anything without sufficient pictures is going to be
a major problem for him.
What are you going on about?

It's Linux that can't cope with its own "pointy-clicky package manager".
Once, after specifying a urpmi repository in rpmdrake, I went back into it,
and just trying to *list* the installed packages (not add a new one) forced
me to click on no less than 20 dependency package installs. I thought it
would never end.
Kier
2005-06-17 11:59:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by DFS
Post by Kelsey Bjarnason
Post by Kier
Here's a list of some of the Linux-related books I own, and have
found useful. Maybe if you spend more time reading than you do
trolling here, you'll learn something and be motivated to become a
genuine Linux user.
Hmm, I didn't see "The Dick and Jane Linux Reader", so I'm not sure
you have anything quite suited to his capabilities. Don't forget, he
can't even cope with pointy-clicky interfaces such as his distro's
package manager; anything without sufficient pictures is going to be
a major problem for him.
What are you going on about?
It's Linux that can't cope with its own "pointy-clicky package manager".
Once, after specifying a urpmi repository in rpmdrake, I went back into it,
and just trying to *list* the installed packages (not add a new one) forced
me to click on no less than 20 dependency package installs. I thought it
would never end.
Then you had something seriously screwed somewhere. That doesn't happen,
IME. What repositories were you using?
--
Kier
DFS
2005-06-17 19:07:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kier
Post by DFS
Post by Kelsey Bjarnason
Post by Kier
Here's a list of some of the Linux-related books I own, and have
found useful. Maybe if you spend more time reading than you do
trolling here, you'll learn something and be motivated to become a
genuine Linux user.
Hmm, I didn't see "The Dick and Jane Linux Reader", so I'm not sure
you have anything quite suited to his capabilities. Don't forget,
he can't even cope with pointy-clicky interfaces such as his
distro's package manager; anything without sufficient pictures is
going to be a major problem for him.
What are you going on about?
It's Linux that can't cope with its own "pointy-clicky package
manager". Once, after specifying a urpmi repository in rpmdrake, I
went back into it, and just trying to *list* the installed packages
(not add a new one) forced me to click on no less than 20 dependency
package installs. I thought it would never end.
Then you had something seriously screwed somewhere. That doesn't
happen, IME. What repositories were you using?
Two I chose from the Easy urpmi website, one for 'main' and one for
'contrib'. I don't recall exactly which were being used at the time of the
dependency dialogs, but I had initially chosen the first in the lists (which
is now ftp://mandrake.contactel.cz, but that doesn't ring a bell). I also
had the three install CD-ROMs (which is actually a DVD) in the media list.

I can't tell you exactly which repositories, as I wiped my Mandrake install
yesterday to try a Solaris 10 (not OpenSolaris) install. Which so far is
looking like a
mistake. The Linux install process is SO much better: more intuitive,
faster and reliable.
DFS
2005-06-17 19:23:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kier
Post by DFS
Post by Kelsey Bjarnason
Post by Kier
Here's a list of some of the Linux-related books I own, and have
found useful. Maybe if you spend more time reading than you do
trolling here, you'll learn something and be motivated to become a
genuine Linux user.
Hmm, I didn't see "The Dick and Jane Linux Reader", so I'm not sure
you have anything quite suited to his capabilities. Don't forget,
he can't even cope with pointy-clicky interfaces such as his
distro's package manager; anything without sufficient pictures is
going to be a major problem for him.
What are you going on about?
It's Linux that can't cope with its own "pointy-clicky package
manager". Once, after specifying a urpmi repository in rpmdrake, I
went back into it, and just trying to *list* the installed packages
(not add a new one) forced me to click on no less than 20 dependency
package installs. I thought it would never end.
Then you had something seriously screwed somewhere. That doesn't
happen, IME.
That did happen IME. But after clicking through those 20 dependency dialogs
it never happened again.
Post by Kier
What repositories were you using?
Two I chose from the Easy urpmi website, one for 'main' and one for
'contrib'. I don't recall exactly which were being used at the time, but I
initially chose the first in the list (which is now
ftp://mandrake.contactel.cz, but that doesn't ring a bell). I also had the
three install CD-ROMs (which is actually a DVD) in the media list.

I can't tell you exactly which they were, as I wiped my Mandrake install
yesterday to try a Solaris 10 for i386 install. Which so far is looking
like a mistake. The Linux install process is SO much better: more
intuitive, faster and reliable.
Kier
2005-06-17 19:45:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by DFS
Post by Kier
Post by DFS
Post by Kelsey Bjarnason
Post by Kier
Here's a list of some of the Linux-related books I own, and have
found useful. Maybe if you spend more time reading than you do
trolling here, you'll learn something and be motivated to become a
genuine Linux user.
Hmm, I didn't see "The Dick and Jane Linux Reader", so I'm not sure
you have anything quite suited to his capabilities. Don't forget,
he can't even cope with pointy-clicky interfaces such as his
distro's package manager; anything without sufficient pictures is
going to be a major problem for him.
What are you going on about?
It's Linux that can't cope with its own "pointy-clicky package
manager". Once, after specifying a urpmi repository in rpmdrake, I
went back into it, and just trying to *list* the installed packages
(not add a new one) forced me to click on no less than 20 dependency
package installs. I thought it would never end.
Then you had something seriously screwed somewhere. That doesn't
happen, IME.
That did happen IME. But after clicking through those 20 dependency dialogs
it never happened again.
Something was pear-shaped, but since I've never met the situation myself,
I can't tell you what, precisely. It shouldn't be asking about
dependencies if you're just starting the GUI to list installed packages.
Strange. Possibly a misconfiguration of urpmi.
Post by DFS
Post by Kier
What repositories were you using?
Two I chose from the Easy urpmi website, one for 'main' and one for
'contrib'. I don't recall exactly which were being used at the time, but I
initially chose the first in the list (which is now
ftp://mandrake.contactel.cz, but that doesn't ring a bell). I also had the
three install CD-ROMs (which is actually a DVD) in the media list.
Hmm, haven't come across that particular one before. It shouldn't cause
that sort of problem. Even when you try to install something requiring
dependencies, it should simply inform you of the fact, and ask if you want
to install them. That's what I did the other day.

You ought to have chosen a couple of other repositories, updates (I think
it is) and plf at least. I usually go for one of each except cooker. In
most cases you don't get a conflict if you choose similar mirrors for as
many as you can. You can always remove or add them if they cause trouble
later, using urpmi - it's a fairly simple process: Man urpmi will give
you the run-down.
Post by DFS
I can't tell you exactly which they were, as I wiped my Mandrake install
yesterday to try a Solaris 10 for i386 install. Which so far is looking
like a mistake. The Linux install process is SO much better: more
intuitive, faster and reliable.
Yes, Mandrake/Mandriva's in particular is excellent. It's partitioning gui
tool is the best I've seen so far, very clear and easy to understand and
use.

if you get Solaris installed, let me know what you make of it; I don't
know much about it myself.
--
Kier
dfs
2005-06-18 04:45:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kier
Post by DFS
Post by Kier
Post by DFS
Post by Kelsey Bjarnason
Post by Kier
Here's a list of some of the Linux-related books I own, and have
found useful. Maybe if you spend more time reading than you do
trolling here, you'll learn something and be motivated to become a
genuine Linux user.
Hmm, I didn't see "The Dick and Jane Linux Reader", so I'm not sure
you have anything quite suited to his capabilities. Don't forget,
he can't even cope with pointy-clicky interfaces such as his
distro's package manager; anything without sufficient pictures is
going to be a major problem for him.
What are you going on about?
It's Linux that can't cope with its own "pointy-clicky package
manager". Once, after specifying a urpmi repository in rpmdrake, I
went back into it, and just trying to *list* the installed packages
(not add a new one) forced me to click on no less than 20 dependency
package installs. I thought it would never end.
Then you had something seriously screwed somewhere. That doesn't
happen, IME.
That did happen IME. But after clicking through those 20 dependency
dialogs it never happened again.
Something was pear-shaped, but since I've never met the situation myself,
I can't tell you what, precisely. It shouldn't be asking about
dependencies if you're just starting the GUI to list installed packages.
Strange. Possibly a misconfiguration of urpmi.
Not on my part. I bet you can reproduce the dependency dialogs. I have a
'main' repository in my Media manager list, plus 3 entries representing the
install CDs. It shouldn't matter if you have other entries.

Start | System | Configuration | Packaging | Browse Available Software (may
warn that you're launching as a normal user). rpmdrake opens, and the
title says Software Packages Installation, but the Install button at the
bottom is disabled. Now choose the drop down which says 'all packages, by
group', and choose the 4th item 'all packages, by medium repository' It
will show your repositories. Now click on 'main' and see if you don't
start getting dependency dialogs. I just did it again, and got about ten.
Post by Kier
Post by DFS
Post by Kier
What repositories were you using?
Two I chose from the Easy urpmi website, one for 'main' and one for
'contrib'. I don't recall exactly which were being used at the time, but
I initially chose the first in the list (which is now
ftp://mandrake.contactel.cz, but that doesn't ring a bell). I also had
the three install CD-ROMs (which is actually a DVD) in the media list.
Hmm, haven't come across that particular one before. It shouldn't cause
that sort of problem. Even when you try to install something requiring
dependencies, it should simply inform you of the fact, and ask if you want
to install them. That's what I did the other day.
You ought to have chosen a couple of other repositories, updates (I think
it is) and plf at least. I usually go for one of each except cooker. In
most cases you don't get a conflict if you choose similar mirrors for as
many as you can. You can always remove or add them if they cause trouble
later, using urpmi - it's a fairly simple process: Man urpmi will give
you the run-down.
Well, the runs anyway.
Post by Kier
Post by DFS
I can't tell you exactly which they were, as I wiped my Mandrake install
yesterday to try a Solaris 10 for i386 install. Which so far is looking
like a mistake. The Linux install process is SO much better: more
intuitive, faster and reliable.
Yes, Mandrake/Mandriva's in particular is excellent. It's partitioning gui
tool is the best I've seen so far, very clear and easy to understand and
use.
Yes. Much better than qtparted.

I used it this evening to totally repartition my second drive, when I
reinstalled Mandrake.
Post by Kier
if you get Solaris installed, let me know what you make of it; I don't
know much about it myself.
Sun's Unix OS, for 386 architecture. Supposedly it's a very good OS. But
the install is difficult.

First install attempt hung for 5 minutes after selecting the locale
language, and I shut it down.

Second went further, started loading service descriptios - hung on 4th of
111. Shut it down after 5 minutes.

Third attempt went further, then hung on some other silly error.

My hardware is standard Intel mobo, PATA drive, low-end ATI video card,
DVD-ROM, Samsung CRT. I think it recognized all the hardware OK.

It took over an hour just to get through those attempts, and I gave up.
Kier
2005-06-18 09:06:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by dfs
Post by Kier
Post by DFS
Post by Kier
Post by DFS
Post by Kelsey Bjarnason
Post by Kier
Here's a list of some of the Linux-related books I own, and have
found useful. Maybe if you spend more time reading than you do
trolling here, you'll learn something and be motivated to become a
genuine Linux user.
Hmm, I didn't see "The Dick and Jane Linux Reader", so I'm not sure
you have anything quite suited to his capabilities. Don't forget,
he can't even cope with pointy-clicky interfaces such as his
distro's package manager; anything without sufficient pictures is
going to be a major problem for him.
What are you going on about?
It's Linux that can't cope with its own "pointy-clicky package
manager". Once, after specifying a urpmi repository in rpmdrake, I
went back into it, and just trying to *list* the installed packages
(not add a new one) forced me to click on no less than 20 dependency
package installs. I thought it would never end.
Then you had something seriously screwed somewhere. That doesn't
happen, IME.
That did happen IME. But after clicking through those 20 dependency
dialogs it never happened again.
Something was pear-shaped, but since I've never met the situation myself,
I can't tell you what, precisely. It shouldn't be asking about
dependencies if you're just starting the GUI to list installed packages.
Strange. Possibly a misconfiguration of urpmi.
Not on my part. I bet you can reproduce the dependency dialogs. I have a
'main' repository in my Media manager list, plus 3 entries representing the
install CDs. It shouldn't matter if you have other entries.
Start | System | Configuration | Packaging | Browse Available Software (may
warn that you're launching as a normal user). rpmdrake opens, and the
title says Software Packages Installation, but the Install button at the
bottom is disabled. Now choose the drop down which says 'all packages, by
group', and choose the 4th item 'all packages, by medium repository' It
will show your repositories. Now click on 'main' and see if you don't
start getting dependency dialogs. I just did it again, and got about ten.
Odd. I may try that later. If it only happens the once, I can't see it's a
huge problem, though. Did it actually force you to install these
depencencies?
Post by dfs
Post by Kier
Post by DFS
Post by Kier
What repositories were you using?
Two I chose from the Easy urpmi website, one for 'main' and one for
'contrib'. I don't recall exactly which were being used at the time, but
I initially chose the first in the list (which is now
ftp://mandrake.contactel.cz, but that doesn't ring a bell). I also had
the three install CD-ROMs (which is actually a DVD) in the media list.
Hmm, haven't come across that particular one before. It shouldn't cause
that sort of problem. Even when you try to install something requiring
dependencies, it should simply inform you of the fact, and ask if you want
to install them. That's what I did the other day.
You ought to have chosen a couple of other repositories, updates (I think
it is) and plf at least. I usually go for one of each except cooker. In
most cases you don't get a conflict if you choose similar mirrors for as
many as you can. You can always remove or add them if they cause trouble
later, using urpmi - it's a fairly simple process: Man urpmi will give
you the run-down.
Well, the runs anyway.
Don't be an idiot. Do you want my help or not? Or do you prefer behaving
badly? We can go back to hurling bricks at eachother if you like;
personally I prefer polite conversation.

The basics of the urpmi manpage give you all the information you need to
know.
Post by dfs
Post by Kier
Post by DFS
I can't tell you exactly which they were, as I wiped my Mandrake install
yesterday to try a Solaris 10 for i386 install. Which so far is looking
like a mistake. The Linux install process is SO much better: more
intuitive, faster and reliable.
Yes, Mandrake/Mandriva's in particular is excellent. It's partitioning gui
tool is the best I've seen so far, very clear and easy to understand and
use.
Yes. Much better than qtparted.
Havn't had any experience with that, except once with Kanotix. I haven't
found an installer/partitoner to beat Mandrake's yet.
Post by dfs
I used it this evening to totally repartition my second drive, when I
reinstalled Mandrake.
10.1 or LE?
Post by dfs
Post by Kier
if you get Solaris installed, let me know what you make of it; I don't
know much about it myself.
Sun's Unix OS, for 386 architecture. Supposedly it's a very good OS. But
the install is difficult.
Lags behind Linux, obviously. they'll have to sort it out if they want
ordinary users to take it up.
Post by dfs
First install attempt hung for 5 minutes after selecting the locale
language, and I shut it down.
Second went further, started loading service descriptios - hung on 4th of
111. Shut it down after 5 minutes.
Third attempt went further, then hung on some other silly error.
My hardware is standard Intel mobo, PATA drive, low-end ATI video card,
DVD-ROM, Samsung CRT. I think it recognized all the hardware OK.
It took over an hour just to get through those attempts, and I gave up.
looks as if Solaris isn't quite what our Unix friends say it is. Still, if
you can't get it installed, you can't really tell, I suppose.
--
Kier
Liam Slider
2005-06-18 15:02:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by dfs
Start | System | Configuration | Packaging | Browse Available Software (may
warn that you're launching as a normal user). rpmdrake opens, and the
title says Software Packages Installation, but the Install button at the
bottom is disabled.
Yes, that happens when you launch the "Browse Avaliable Software"
option....as you're just seeing what's there, not actually installing
anything, and don't have permission to install at that point anyway. Not
as a user.
Post by dfs
Now choose the drop down which says 'all packages, by
group', and choose the 4th item 'all packages, by medium repository' It
will show your repositories. Now click on 'main' and see if you don't
start getting dependency dialogs. I just did it again, and got about ten.
Did that, no dependency dialogs here.


Maybe it's because *I* didn't go and randomly pick parts during my install
while not having a fucking clue what I was doing...like you basically said
you did. You had a broken installation, which was your own damn fault for
making that way. It was your stupidity, your incapability, and your
failure...not the Mandrake Linux. *You* pulled a Wilson.
DFS
2005-06-18 22:10:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Liam Slider
Post by dfs
Start | System | Configuration | Packaging | Browse Available
Software (may warn that you're launching as a normal user).
rpmdrake opens, and the title says Software Packages Installation,
but the Install button at the bottom is disabled.
Yes, that happens when you launch the "Browse Avaliable Software"
option....as you're just seeing what's there, not actually installing
anything, and don't have permission to install at that point anyway.
Not as a user.
Whoever said any differently? That's why I specified to enter the app via
'Browse Available Software', because then all you can do is list it. And
just trying to list it gives me the dependency dialogs.

But I'm sure the problem is me. It's always the user's fault.
Post by Liam Slider
Post by dfs
Now choose the drop down which says 'all packages, by
group', and choose the 4th item 'all packages, by medium repository'
It will show your repositories. Now click on 'main' and see if you
don't start getting dependency dialogs. I just did it again, and
got about ten.
Did that, no dependency dialogs here.
So? I sure got them.
Post by Liam Slider
Maybe it's because *I* didn't go and randomly pick parts during my
install while not having a fucking clue what I was doing...like you
basically said you did.
There was nothing random about it. When I reinstalled Mandrake last night I
chose about 2/3 of the various installation "themes", such as workstation,
development, multimedia, etc. I didn't choose the web server or network
server options, etc. And I didn't choose any individual packages. I got
whatever Mandrake included in those themes.

Prior to that I repartitioned the drive during install, using the Mandrake
tool - which is pretty good.
Post by Liam Slider
You had a broken installation,
which was your own damn fault for making that way.
Installing Mandrake means installing broken software.
Post by Liam Slider
It was
your stupidity, your incapability, and your failure...not the
Mandrake Linux. *You* pulled a Wilson.
Hey, if it makes you feel better to think that, go ahead.

I know the slop I see on my screen. You know the slop you see on your
screen. The difference is you're willing to forgive it no matter how bad it
is. I don't.
Liam Slider
2005-06-18 23:27:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by DFS
Hey, if it makes you feel better to think that, go ahead.
I know the slop I see on my screen. You know the slop you see on your
screen. The difference is you're willing to forgive it no matter how bad it
is. I don't.
Here's the thing...I'm not getting *any* slop on my screen! You keep
complaining about dozens of dependency dialogs and I don't get one single
such dialog, and we both have the same distro! And your story and excuses
keep changing! Just face it, you are retarded and blaming Linux for your
own failure as a human being.

amosf
2005-06-17 12:25:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by DFS
Post by Kelsey Bjarnason
Post by Kier
Here's a list of some of the Linux-related books I own, and have
found useful. Maybe if you spend more time reading than you do
trolling here, you'll learn something and be motivated to become a
genuine Linux user.
Hmm, I didn't see "The Dick and Jane Linux Reader", so I'm not sure
you have anything quite suited to his capabilities. Don't forget, he
can't even cope with pointy-clicky interfaces such as his distro's
package manager; anything without sufficient pictures is going to be
a major problem for him.
What are you going on about?
It's Linux that can't cope with its own "pointy-clicky package manager".
Once, after specifying a urpmi repository in rpmdrake, I went back into
it, and just trying to *list* the installed packages (not add a new one)
forced
me to click on no less than 20 dependency package installs. I thought it
would never end.
As if anyone will believe your crap. Go screw up your linux installs as much
as you like. Who cares. Maybe it's the anti-aliasing that screwed you up.
--
-
I use linux. Can anyone give me a good reason to use Windows?
-
Kelsey Bjarnason
2005-06-18 00:25:43 UTC
Permalink
[snips]
Post by DFS
It's Linux that can't cope with its own "pointy-clicky package manager".
No, it's you. Fact is, I can get Mandrake's GUI package manager to
work, as can several other people here, as can thousands upon thousands
of other people. You, however, can't, which tells us pretty much
everything we need to know - that it is you, not Linux, not Mandrake,
not rpmdrake, that is screwed up beyond all repair.

Of course, that's not news around here, is it?
DFS
2005-06-18 07:18:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kelsey Bjarnason
[snips]
Post by DFS
It's Linux that can't cope with its own "pointy-clicky package manager".
No, it's you. Fact is, I can get Mandrake's GUI package manager to
work, as can several other people here, as can thousands upon
thousands of other people. You, however, can't,
Oh, I got it working - as much as anything in Linux works - immediately
after finding a variety of non-responsive and outdated repositories at Easy
urpmi http://easyurpmi.zarb.org/

And after two mirrors downloaded 40mb of package lists to my computer.
40mb! Talk about bloat.
Post by Kelsey Bjarnason
which tells us
pretty much everything we need to know - that it is you, not Linux,
not Mandrake, not rpmdrake, that is screwed up beyond all repair.
Linux and Mandrake and rpmdrake and urpmi are screwed up in so many ways,
both large and small. How do you count thee?
Post by Kelsey Bjarnason
Of course, that's not news around here, is it?
I do have some good news: a new Linux release is always around the corner!
Release often, release sloppy.
Kier
2005-06-18 09:15:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by DFS
Post by Kelsey Bjarnason
[snips]
Post by DFS
It's Linux that can't cope with its own "pointy-clicky package manager".
No, it's you. Fact is, I can get Mandrake's GUI package manager to
work, as can several other people here, as can thousands upon
thousands of other people. You, however, can't,
Oh, I got it working - as much as anything in Linux works - immediately
after finding a variety of non-responsive and outdated repositories at Easy
urpmi http://easyurpmi.zarb.org/
So now you're going to attack easyurmpmi. Nice. Do you have the least idea
what sort of work it takes - unpaid work, for the most part - to keep such
a resource in order, and up to date? Do you think this stuff comes into
being at the twirl of a magin wand?
Post by DFS
And after two mirrors downloaded 40mb of package lists to my computer.
40mb! Talk about bloat.
No, I'll take about a huge range of software, available to you at no
charge, with which you may do exactly as you please, including modifyig
it, copying it, installing it to as many machines as you want. You really
are a fool, DFS, to sneer at this. Use you brain for thinking. Try and
think of the hard work and dedication this represents, and show some
gratitude.
Post by DFS
Post by Kelsey Bjarnason
which tells us
pretty much everything we need to know - that it is you, not Linux,
not Mandrake, not rpmdrake, that is screwed up beyond all repair.
Linux and Mandrake and rpmdrake and urpmi are screwed up in so many ways,
both large and small. How do you count thee?
No, they aren't. You aren't doing you case any good by proving Kelsey's
point - you're either here to troll and lie, or you really want to learn.
Which is it?
Post by DFS
Post by Kelsey Bjarnason
Of course, that's not news around here, is it?
It is to most of us. urpmi has alwasy been among the very best package
installer/managers out there, and easyurpmi makes it dead simple to use.
Post by DFS
I do have some good news: a new Linux release is always around the corner!
Release often, release sloppy.
Wrong. You still don't get it, do you? After all this time here, you're
still the same closed-minded idiot. For God's sake give us all a break!
--
Kier
DFS
2005-06-18 13:44:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kier
Post by DFS
Post by Kelsey Bjarnason
[snips]
Post by DFS
It's Linux that can't cope with its own "pointy-clicky package manager".
No, it's you. Fact is, I can get Mandrake's GUI package manager to
work, as can several other people here, as can thousands upon
thousands of other people. You, however, can't,
Oh, I got it working - as much as anything in Linux works -
immediately after finding a variety of non-responsive and outdated
repositories at Easy urpmi http://easyurpmi.zarb.org/
So now you're going to attack easyurmpmi. Nice. Do you have the least
idea what sort of work it takes - unpaid work, for the most part - to
keep such a resource in order, and up to date? Do you think this
stuff comes into being at the twirl of a magin wand?
Like setting up urpmi on your system, it's a bit of work up front and then
it's easy to maintain. Do you think these guys work on maintaining those
mirrors full-time, every day? No. That's why they get so outdated. It's a
hobby for them. Some set them up and don't touch them for a long time -
hence you still get Firefox from 6 months ago. Many of the mirrors are
hosted by academic departments at universities, and they're maintained by
students during a course.
Post by Kier
Post by DFS
And after two mirrors downloaded 40mb of package lists to my
computer. 40mb! Talk about bloat.
No, I'll take about a huge range of software, available to you at no
charge, with which you may do exactly as you please, including
modifyig it, copying it, installing it to as many machines as you
want.
A nice advantage for some, no doubt. Windows caused me some related
problems last night, and I'll soon be so kind as to post them in a new
thread.
Post by Kier
You really are a fool, DFS, to sneer at this. Use you brain for
thinking. Try and think of the hard work and dedication this
represents, and show some gratitude.
It is sort of impressive to see how much energy Linux/OSS people put into
their hatred of MS.
Post by Kier
Post by DFS
Post by Kelsey Bjarnason
which tells us
pretty much everything we need to know - that it is you, not Linux,
not Mandrake, not rpmdrake, that is screwed up beyond all repair.
Linux and Mandrake and rpmdrake and urpmi are screwed up in so many
ways, both large and small. How do you count thee?
No, they aren't. You aren't doing you case any good by proving
Kelsey's point - you're either here to troll and lie, or you really
want to learn. Which is it?
I don't lie. Every single slopware episode really happened. All of them.

Learning is always worthwhile, of course, but cola isn't meant to be a
learning experience.
Post by Kier
Post by DFS
Post by Kelsey Bjarnason
Of course, that's not news around here, is it?
It is to most of us. urpmi has alwasy been among the very best package
installer/managers out there, and easyurpmi makes it dead simple to use.
That's Kelsey you're responding to.
Post by Kier
Post by DFS
I do have some good news: a new Linux release is always around the
corner! Release often, release sloppy.
Wrong. You still don't get it, do you?
I get this: instead of Fedora Core or Ubuntu saying "we'll release the next
version when it's done", they say "we'll release every 6 months." Meaning
if something's not fixed, oh well, our next scheduled release is 6 months
from now and hopefully we can get it fixed by then.

Their (and others') release schedules are dictated by an arbitrary, frequent
timeline, vs the condition of their software. Nowhere but in Linux la-la
land have I heard of this.
Post by Kier
After all this time here, you're still the same closed-minded
idiot. For God's sake give us all a break!
When assholes like Kelsey B. devote several posts to telling me how stupid I
am, and that the software works perfectly (it doesn't), I'm going to have to
respond.
Kier
2005-06-18 14:35:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by DFS
Post by Kier
Post by DFS
Post by Kelsey Bjarnason
[snips]
Post by DFS
It's Linux that can't cope with its own "pointy-clicky package manager".
No, it's you. Fact is, I can get Mandrake's GUI package manager to
work, as can several other people here, as can thousands upon
thousands of other people. You, however, can't,
Oh, I got it working - as much as anything in Linux works -
immediately after finding a variety of non-responsive and outdated
repositories at Easy urpmi http://easyurpmi.zarb.org/
So now you're going to attack easyurmpmi. Nice. Do you have the least
idea what sort of work it takes - unpaid work, for the most part - to
keep such a resource in order, and up to date? Do you think this
stuff comes into being at the twirl of a magin wand?
Like setting up urpmi on your system, it's a bit of work up front and then
it's easy to maintain. Do you think these guys work on maintaining those
mirrors full-time, every day? No. That's why they get so outdated. It's a
hobby for them. Some set them up and don't touch them for a long time -
hence you still get Firefox from 6 months ago. Many of the mirrors are
hosted by academic departments at universities, and they're maintained by
students during a course.
And the fact that they're willing to do this, to put in that work for the
benefit of other linux users, goes right over your head, doesn't it?
Post by DFS
Post by Kier
Post by DFS
And after two mirrors downloaded 40mb of package lists to my
computer. 40mb! Talk about bloat.
No, I'll take about a huge range of software, available to you at no
charge, with which you may do exactly as you please, including
modifyig it, copying it, installing it to as many machines as you
want.
A nice advantage for some, no doubt. Windows caused me some related
problems last night, and I'll soon be so kind as to post them in a new
thread.
It's a nice advantage for all who use it. You seem to be incapable of
understanding that.
Post by DFS
Post by Kier
You really are a fool, DFS, to sneer at this. Use you brain for
thinking. Try and think of the hard work and dedication this
represents, and show some gratitude.
It is sort of impressive to see how much energy Linux/OSS people put into
their hatred of MS.
Sorry? Where in the above is MS mentioned?
Post by DFS
Post by Kier
Post by DFS
Post by Kelsey Bjarnason
which tells us
pretty much everything we need to know - that it is you, not Linux,
not Mandrake, not rpmdrake, that is screwed up beyond all repair.
Linux and Mandrake and rpmdrake and urpmi are screwed up in so many
ways, both large and small. How do you count thee?
No, they aren't. You aren't doing you case any good by proving
Kelsey's point - you're either here to troll and lie, or you really
want to learn. Which is it?
I don't lie. Every single slopware episode really happened. All of them.
Sure.
Post by DFS
Learning is always worthwhile, of course, but cola isn't meant to be a
learning experience.
It can be, for those willing to learn.
Post by DFS
Post by Kier
Post by DFS
Post by Kelsey Bjarnason
Of course, that's not news around here, is it?
It is to most of us. urpmi has alwasy been among the very best package
installer/managers out there, and easyurpmi makes it dead simple to use.
That's Kelsey you're responding to.
Post by Kier
Post by DFS
I do have some good news: a new Linux release is always around the
corner! Release often, release sloppy.
Wrong. You still don't get it, do you?
I get this: instead of Fedora Core or Ubuntu saying "we'll release the next
version when it's done", they say "we'll release every 6 months." Meaning
if something's not fixed, oh well, our next scheduled release is 6 months
from now and hopefully we can get it fixed by then.
Wrong. Having a regular release schedule means they have a target to aim
at. No one expects perfection over night (except you, it seems). And it's
really funny you should slag Ubuntu for releasing six-monthly, when you're
always whining about Debian. It's based on Debian, but without the very
slow and steady release cycles, and you just love attacking Debian's
software, don't you?

Ubuntu is a very good distro, gaining in popularity all the time. Fedora
is popular too, but it's meant as a test-bed, so problems can be expected
along with cutting-edge software. But then you know that already. You've
been told over and over yet you refuse to listen.

Releasing as often as practicable is the way it goes - you keep the
development momentum rolling along, each release building as much as
possible on the sucess of the last. You get feedback from users which
helps to fix bugs. the users get the benefit of as much up-to-date
software as possible.

But you're also forgetting that no one *has* to get the next release, if
the one they're using works for them. Software can be upgraded as needed,
or not at all. Or you can go the whole hog and keep up with each release.
It's *your* choice.

At this moment, I've got Mandrake 9.1. 10.1 and LE 2005 and my various
machines. My everyday machine has 9.1 on it, because it's working more or
less jut as I need it too, chugging away happily day after day. Eventually
I'll probably upgrade. When I do it'll be my choice.

Linux users would rather have something usable *now* than wait around
forever like the Windows fans are with Longhorn.
Post by DFS
Their (and others') release schedules are dictated by an arbitrary, frequent
timeline, vs the condition of their software. Nowhere but in Linux la-la
land have I heard of this.
There is no 'Linux la-la land', except in your head. You continue to
demonstrate that you don't understand Open Source, or its goals and
motivations.
Post by DFS
Post by Kier
After all this time here, you're still the same closed-minded
idiot. For God's sake give us all a break!
When assholes like Kelsey B. devote several posts to telling me how stupid I
am, and that the software works perfectly (it doesn't), I'm going to have to
respond.
By being an even bigger idiot than before. Stuff like 'Linux la-la land'
is a case in point. If you behave stupidly, you'll be called stupid. Stiop
trolling and start learning.
--
Kier
Kelsey Bjarnason
2005-06-18 19:33:51 UTC
Permalink
[snips]
Post by DFS
When assholes like Kelsey B. devote several posts to telling me how stupid I
am, and that the software works perfectly (it doesn't), I'm going to have to
respond.
Do you recall what I said to you shortly after you arrived here? I'll
refresh your memory. I said you started out being apparently reasonable,
fairly intelligent, and with an apparently honest interest in learning.
You - not me, not Kier, not anyone else, *you* - decided to change
that, to start trolling, to behave like a spoiled child, to avoid
applying even the slightest modicum of intelligence to any aspect of
your forays into Linux... and then to blame others for your failings.

You started out here okay, you were treated okay, at least by me...
until *you* decided to change that and give up any and all respect
people around here may have had for you.

Typical of you, though. If the software works for everyone but you, it
must be the software's fault. If people treat you like garbage, it must
be their fault. It couldn't possibly be you, acting like an ass,
bringing it on yourself. Nope, if something is less than perfect in
DFS's world, it's somebody else's fault... can't be DFS, after all, he's
perfect.

*You* chose to be treated like an idiot child. Don't whine about it
when that's what you get.
William Poaster
2005-06-18 13:04:17 UTC
Permalink
begin OEKillFileMe.vbs It was on Sat, 18 Jun 2005 03:18:10 -0400, that
DFS was seen to write:

<snip>
Post by DFS
I do have some good news: a new Linux release is always around the corner!
Release often, release sloppy.
So you're back to trolling again. I didn't think you'd last long.
--
MicroSlave -
"Where do you think *you're* going, toady?"
Kelsey Bjarnason
2005-06-18 19:27:26 UTC
Permalink
[snips]
Post by DFS
Oh, I got it working - as much as anything in Linux works - immediately
after finding a variety of non-responsive and outdated repositories at Easy
urpmi http://easyurpmi.zarb.org/
And after two mirrors downloaded 40mb of package lists to my computer.
40mb! Talk about bloat.
Gods you're a weenie. You whine and cry that it doesn't work, because
of broken dependencies, missing packages and the like... then you cry
that someone has provided a large list of just those things, to help fix
what only you can apparently manage to screw up in the first place.

Since obviously the only thing that would ever let you even pretend to
have an actual interest in Linux is someone providing you with a
repository that included all versions of all applications, but consuming
zero bytes in the process, why don't you go sit off in a corner
somewhere and wait, while the big boys and girls get on with living in
the real world, something you're obviously not equipped for?
Post by DFS
Post by Kelsey Bjarnason
which tells us
pretty much everything we need to know - that it is you, not Linux,
not Mandrake, not rpmdrake, that is screwed up beyond all repair.
Linux and Mandrake and rpmdrake and urpmi are screwed up in so many ways,
both large and small. How do you count thee?
Counting to zero is pretty easy, actually. Counting *your* failings
would require the combined computing power of the planet.
Post by DFS
I do have some good news: a new Linux release is always around the corner!
Release often, release sloppy.
Release often, release good, don't worry that DFS can't cope with even
the simplest things... everyone else can.

You know, a lot of people have trouble setting the clocks on their vcrs,
hence the term "12 o'clock flasher" to mean someone technically
challenged. You, however, are the only one I've encountered who has the
software equivalent of problems pressing "play". Neither vcr makers nor
software developers are going to spend much time trying to overcome
that; dumbing things down generally ceases to be effective once you've
made it easy enough for the average garden slug to manage; there's no
benefit it continuing the process until *you* can manage it.
Kier
2005-06-17 11:42:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kelsey Bjarnason
Post by Kier
Here's a list of some of the Linux-related books I own, and have found
useful. Maybe if you spend more time reading than you do trolling here,
you'll learn something and be motivated to become a genuine Linux user.
Hmm, I didn't see "The Dick and Jane Linux Reader", so I'm not sure you
have anything quite suited to his capabilities. Don't forget, he can't
even cope with pointy-clicky interfaces such as his distro's package
manager; anything without sufficient pictures is going to be a major
problem for him.
All sarcasm aside, I think encouragement of any genuine or semi-genuine
interest in using Linux is better than just attacking. I mean, we *are*
trying to advocate here, aren't we, between jumping all over trolls? And
it's not much use preaching to the converted :-)

I've been slinging the slagging a bit frequently lately; reckon it's time
I did something more positive as well.
--
Kier
amosf
2005-06-17 12:28:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kier
Post by Kelsey Bjarnason
Post by Kier
Here's a list of some of the Linux-related books I own, and have found
useful. Maybe if you spend more time reading than you do trolling here,
you'll learn something and be motivated to become a genuine Linux user.
Hmm, I didn't see "The Dick and Jane Linux Reader", so I'm not sure you
have anything quite suited to his capabilities. Don't forget, he can't
even cope with pointy-clicky interfaces such as his distro's package
manager; anything without sufficient pictures is going to be a major
problem for him.
All sarcasm aside, I think encouragement of any genuine or semi-genuine
interest in using Linux is better than just attacking. I mean, we *are*
trying to advocate here, aren't we, between jumping all over trolls? And
it's not much use preaching to the converted :-)
I've been slinging the slagging a bit frequently lately; reckon it's time
I did something more positive as well.
Oh, after the crap lies about anti-aliasing you are now going to be
positive. Too late. You have no interest. You come just to troll as you are
bored. Tough fucking luck. Sorry your girlfriend left you, but it was just
because you were such a boring whining little turd.
--
-
I use linux. Can anyone give me a good reason to use Windows?
-
amosf
2005-06-17 12:39:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by amosf
Post by Kier
Post by Kelsey Bjarnason
Post by Kier
Here's a list of some of the Linux-related books I own, and have found
useful. Maybe if you spend more time reading than you do trolling here,
you'll learn something and be motivated to become a genuine Linux user.
Hmm, I didn't see "The Dick and Jane Linux Reader", so I'm not sure you
have anything quite suited to his capabilities. Don't forget, he can't
even cope with pointy-clicky interfaces such as his distro's package
manager; anything without sufficient pictures is going to be a major
problem for him.
All sarcasm aside, I think encouragement of any genuine or semi-genuine
interest in using Linux is better than just attacking. I mean, we *are*
trying to advocate here, aren't we, between jumping all over trolls? And
it's not much use preaching to the converted :-)
I've been slinging the slagging a bit frequently lately; reckon it's time
I did something more positive as well.
Oh, after the crap lies about anti-aliasing you are now going to be
positive. Too late. You have no interest. You come just to troll as you
are bored. Tough fucking luck. Sorry your girlfriend left you, but it was
just because you were such a boring whining little turd.
Now look, you wanker, you got so pissed off you don't even know who are
abusing half the time. It's that fucking Dufus's fault. Yes, my precious,
it's dufus's fault, yes...
--
-
I use linux. Can anyone give me a good reason to use Windows?
-
Kier
2005-06-17 13:03:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by amosf
Post by amosf
Post by Kier
Post by Kelsey Bjarnason
Post by Kier
Here's a list of some of the Linux-related books I own, and have found
useful. Maybe if you spend more time reading than you do trolling here,
you'll learn something and be motivated to become a genuine Linux user.
Hmm, I didn't see "The Dick and Jane Linux Reader", so I'm not sure you
have anything quite suited to his capabilities. Don't forget, he can't
even cope with pointy-clicky interfaces such as his distro's package
manager; anything without sufficient pictures is going to be a major
problem for him.
All sarcasm aside, I think encouragement of any genuine or semi-genuine
interest in using Linux is better than just attacking. I mean, we *are*
trying to advocate here, aren't we, between jumping all over trolls? And
it's not much use preaching to the converted :-)
I've been slinging the slagging a bit frequently lately; reckon it's time
I did something more positive as well.
Oh, after the crap lies about anti-aliasing you are now going to be
positive. Too late. You have no interest. You come just to troll as you
are bored. Tough fucking luck. Sorry your girlfriend left you, but it was
just because you were such a boring whining little turd.
Now look, you wanker, you got so pissed off you don't even know who are
abusing half the time. It's that fucking Dufus's fault. Yes, my precious,
it's dufus's fault, yes...
Ah, now I get it. It's our friend the forger again.

To the real amosf: expect a lot more of this nonsense. You can safely
disregard an reply by either me or DFS that doesn't sound in character
(yeah, I know DFS can be a twerp, but his style isn't forgery, whatever
else).
--
Kier
Kier
2005-06-17 12:58:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by amosf
Post by Kier
Post by Kelsey Bjarnason
Post by Kier
Here's a list of some of the Linux-related books I own, and have found
useful. Maybe if you spend more time reading than you do trolling here,
you'll learn something and be motivated to become a genuine Linux user.
Hmm, I didn't see "The Dick and Jane Linux Reader", so I'm not sure you
have anything quite suited to his capabilities. Don't forget, he can't
even cope with pointy-clicky interfaces such as his distro's package
manager; anything without sufficient pictures is going to be a major
problem for him.
All sarcasm aside, I think encouragement of any genuine or semi-genuine
interest in using Linux is better than just attacking. I mean, we *are*
trying to advocate here, aren't we, between jumping all over trolls? And
it's not much use preaching to the converted :-)
I've been slinging the slagging a bit frequently lately; reckon it's time
I did something more positive as well.
Oh, after the crap lies about anti-aliasing you are now going to be
positive. Too late. You have no interest. You come just to troll as you are
bored. Tough fucking luck. Sorry your girlfriend left you, but it was just
because you were such a boring whining little turd.
Whoa there, son, you are ranting to the wrong person! Check your
attributions. This is Kier calling :-)
--
Kier
amosf
2005-06-17 12:33:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kier
Post by Kelsey Bjarnason
Post by Kier
Here's a list of some of the Linux-related books I own, and have found
useful. Maybe if you spend more time reading than you do trolling here,
you'll learn something and be motivated to become a genuine Linux user.
Hmm, I didn't see "The Dick and Jane Linux Reader", so I'm not sure you
have anything quite suited to his capabilities. Don't forget, he can't
even cope with pointy-clicky interfaces such as his distro's package
manager; anything without sufficient pictures is going to be a major
problem for him.
All sarcasm aside, I think encouragement of any genuine or semi-genuine
interest in using Linux is better than just attacking. I mean, we *are*
trying to advocate here, aren't we, between jumping all over trolls? And
it's not much use preaching to the converted :-)
I've been slinging the slagging a bit frequently lately; reckon it's time
I did something more positive as well.
Now I'm getting so pissed off and carried away I'm abusing everyone :)
--
-
I use linux. Can anyone give me a good reason to use Windows?
-
amosf
2005-06-17 12:54:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kier
Post by Kelsey Bjarnason
Post by Kier
Here's a list of some of the Linux-related books I own, and have found
useful. Maybe if you spend more time reading than you do trolling here,
you'll learn something and be motivated to become a genuine Linux user.
Hmm, I didn't see "The Dick and Jane Linux Reader", so I'm not sure you
have anything quite suited to his capabilities. Don't forget, he can't
even cope with pointy-clicky interfaces such as his distro's package
manager; anything without sufficient pictures is going to be a major
problem for him.
All sarcasm aside, I think encouragement of any genuine or semi-genuine
interest in using Linux is better than just attacking. I mean, we *are*
trying to advocate here, aren't we, between jumping all over trolls? And
it's not much use preaching to the converted :-)
To actually reply to this correctly, you are probably right, but I tend to
do any serious advocacy elsewhere as I don't think you see many genuine new
users here very often. I don't think DFS has a genuine interest at all,
especially after the anti-aliasing crap. I also don't tend to try to
convert as that is too much a religious compulsion, but I will help people
that really want help. Not much of that happens here. Elsewhere you have
more chance to help people that are actually using linux.
Post by Kier
I've been slinging the slagging a bit frequently lately; reckon it's time
I did something more positive as well.
True. But with someone like DuFuS I just want to wack him. More fun.
--
-
I use linux. Can anyone give me a good reason to use Windows?
-
Kier
2005-06-17 13:13:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by amosf
Post by Kier
Post by Kelsey Bjarnason
Post by Kier
Here's a list of some of the Linux-related books I own, and have found
useful. Maybe if you spend more time reading than you do trolling here,
you'll learn something and be motivated to become a genuine Linux user.
Hmm, I didn't see "The Dick and Jane Linux Reader", so I'm not sure you
have anything quite suited to his capabilities. Don't forget, he can't
even cope with pointy-clicky interfaces such as his distro's package
manager; anything without sufficient pictures is going to be a major
problem for him.
All sarcasm aside, I think encouragement of any genuine or semi-genuine
interest in using Linux is better than just attacking. I mean, we *are*
trying to advocate here, aren't we, between jumping all over trolls? And
it's not much use preaching to the converted :-)
To actually reply to this correctly, you are probably right, but I tend to
do any serious advocacy elsewhere as I don't think you see many genuine new
users here very often. I don't think DFS has a genuine interest at all,
especially after the anti-aliasing crap. I also don't tend to try to
convert as that is too much a religious compulsion, but I will help people
that really want help. Not much of that happens here. Elsewhere you have
more chance to help people that are actually using linux.
Well, my technical ability isn't really sufficient enough to do a lot of
that, which is one of the reasons I hang out here and not in a help group.
Post by amosf
Post by Kier
I've been slinging the slagging a bit frequently lately; reckon it's
time I did something more positive as well.
True. But with someone like DuFuS I just want to wack him. More fun.
I get the same feeling frequently, but it would be better to try and
resist it more often, IMO.

BTW, my last couple of replies to you may have seemed a little strange -
it's just that we occasionally get an unpleasant forger in here, and his
tactics resemble what you've been doing to DFS (not that I think you're
the forger) including replying to yourself :-) I daresay in the heat of
the moment you got carried away.
--
Kier
amosf
2005-06-17 14:05:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kier
Post by amosf
Post by Kier
Post by Kelsey Bjarnason
Post by Kier
Here's a list of some of the Linux-related books I own, and have found
useful. Maybe if you spend more time reading than you do trolling
here, you'll learn something and be motivated to become a genuine
Linux user.
Hmm, I didn't see "The Dick and Jane Linux Reader", so I'm not sure you
have anything quite suited to his capabilities. Don't forget, he can't
even cope with pointy-clicky interfaces such as his distro's package
manager; anything without sufficient pictures is going to be a major
problem for him.
All sarcasm aside, I think encouragement of any genuine or semi-genuine
interest in using Linux is better than just attacking. I mean, we *are*
trying to advocate here, aren't we, between jumping all over trolls? And
it's not much use preaching to the converted :-)
To actually reply to this correctly, you are probably right, but I tend
to do any serious advocacy elsewhere as I don't think you see many
genuine new users here very often. I don't think DFS has a genuine
interest at all, especially after the anti-aliasing crap. I also don't
tend to try to convert as that is too much a religious compulsion, but I
will help people that really want help. Not much of that happens here.
Elsewhere you have more chance to help people that are actually using
linux.
Well, my technical ability isn't really sufficient enough to do a lot of
that, which is one of the reasons I hang out here and not in a help group.
I'm often only little help. But real noobs often have trouble with simple
things too. And it may have been something that happened to me recently.
Post by Kier
Post by amosf
Post by Kier
I've been slinging the slagging a bit frequently lately; reckon it's
time I did something more positive as well.
True. But with someone like DuFuS I just want to wack him. More fun.
I get the same feeling frequently, but it would be better to try and
resist it more often, IMO.
BTW, my last couple of replies to you may have seemed a little strange -
it's just that we occasionally get an unpleasant forger in here, and his
tactics resemble what you've been doing to DFS (not that I think you're
the forger) including replying to yourself :-) I daresay in the heat of
the moment you got carried away.
Yep. But unlike some I can admit to being a wanker on occasion :)
--
-
I use linux. Can anyone give me a good reason to use Windows?
-
Kier
2005-06-17 14:42:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by amosf
Post by Kier
Post by amosf
Post by Kier
Post by Kelsey Bjarnason
Post by Kier
Here's a list of some of the Linux-related books I own, and have found
useful. Maybe if you spend more time reading than you do trolling
here, you'll learn something and be motivated to become a genuine
Linux user.
Hmm, I didn't see "The Dick and Jane Linux Reader", so I'm not sure you
have anything quite suited to his capabilities. Don't forget, he can't
even cope with pointy-clicky interfaces such as his distro's package
manager; anything without sufficient pictures is going to be a major
problem for him.
All sarcasm aside, I think encouragement of any genuine or semi-genuine
interest in using Linux is better than just attacking. I mean, we *are*
trying to advocate here, aren't we, between jumping all over trolls? And
it's not much use preaching to the converted :-)
To actually reply to this correctly, you are probably right, but I tend
to do any serious advocacy elsewhere as I don't think you see many
genuine new users here very often. I don't think DFS has a genuine
interest at all, especially after the anti-aliasing crap. I also don't
tend to try to convert as that is too much a religious compulsion, but I
will help people that really want help. Not much of that happens here.
Elsewhere you have more chance to help people that are actually using
linux.
Well, my technical ability isn't really sufficient enough to do a lot of
that, which is one of the reasons I hang out here and not in a help group.
I'm often only little help. But real noobs often have trouble with simple
things too. And it may have been something that happened to me recently.
That's true, it's often the simplest stuff that can trip people up. I do
try to help when I feel I can, but I'm not up to the standard of many
posters here, by a long chalk.
Post by amosf
Post by Kier
Post by amosf
Post by Kier
I've been slinging the slagging a bit frequently lately; reckon it's
time I did something more positive as well.
True. But with someone like DuFuS I just want to wack him. More fun.
I get the same feeling frequently, but it would be better to try and
resist it more often, IMO.
BTW, my last couple of replies to you may have seemed a little strange -
it's just that we occasionally get an unpleasant forger in here, and his
tactics resemble what you've been doing to DFS (not that I think you're
the forger) including replying to yourself :-) I daresay in the heat of
the moment you got carried away.
Yep. But unlike some I can admit to being a wanker on occasion :)
Me, too - sometimes (both being and admitting, I hope!) Must admit, I like
a good barney from time to time.
--
Kier
Kelsey Bjarnason
2005-06-18 00:30:03 UTC
Permalink
[snips]
Post by Kier
All sarcasm aside, I think encouragement of any genuine or semi-genuine
interest in using Linux is better than just attacking.
Absolutely. On the other hand, this is DuFuS we're talking about... you
know, the person so abysmally stupid that he can't manage even the
simple pointy-clicky interfaces that anything with the IQ level of a
mentally challenged carrot or better should be able to cope with.

Add to that the fact he's simply dishonest and has no actual interest in
learning anything about Linux - other than to collect incidents of other
people having problems with it, so he can claim them as his own - and
you have to consider whether it's worth the effort to even pretend he
deserves a shred of respect, support, or compassion.

If - not when, but if - he ever decides to demonstrate an honest
interest in learning Linux, maybe we'll cut him a break. Until then,
he's pond scum.
DFS
2005-06-18 07:36:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kelsey Bjarnason
[snips]
Post by Kier
All sarcasm aside, I think encouragement of any genuine or
semi-genuine interest in using Linux is better than just attacking.
Absolutely. On the other hand, this is DuFuS we're talking about...
you know, the person so abysmally stupid that he can't manage even the
simple pointy-clicky interfaces that anything with the IQ level of a
mentally challenged carrot or better should be able to cope with.
Add to that the fact he's simply dishonest and has no actual interest
in learning anything about Linux - other than to collect incidents of
other people having problems with it, so he can claim them as his own
LOL @ the miserable way you evade all the slopware problems I find.

You've been trading IMs with amosf haven't you?
Post by Kelsey Bjarnason
- and you have to consider whether it's worth the effort to even
pretend he deserves a shred of respect, support, or compassion.
If - not when, but if - he ever decides to demonstrate an honest
interest in learning Linux, maybe we'll cut him a break.
I don't think you will. You're very unpleasant.
Post by Kelsey Bjarnason
Until then,
he's pond scum.
Which is why I fit in at cola.
Kelsey Bjarnason
2005-06-18 19:36:45 UTC
Permalink
[snips]
You don't find problems in anything; you google for problems - potential
or actual - that others have encountered, then whine about them here.
Nobody believes for a second that you, personally, have a tenth the
problems you report having. 'Sides, you don't want help with the few
legitimate ones you do have, you just want to bitch and moan and whine.
Post by DFS
You've been trading IMs with amosf haven't you?
I don't need amsof's input to know you're a lying, dishonest troll.
Post by DFS
Post by Kelsey Bjarnason
If - not when, but if - he ever decides to demonstrate an honest
interest in learning Linux, maybe we'll cut him a break.
I don't think you will. You're very unpleasant.
To people who deserve it? Absolutely. I was nice to you until *you*
decided to be an ass.
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