Discussion:
Linus carps about GNOME
(too old to reply)
Linønut
2005-12-21 02:44:07 UTC
Permalink
At the risk of feeding the scum-sucking Wintrolls, I found this thread
pretty interesting, and followed it over a few topic changes:

http://lists.osdl.org/pipermail/desktop_architects/2005-December/000486.html

[Desktop_architects] Printing dialog and GNOME

Linus Torvalds torvalds at osdl.org
Tue Dec 13 13:44:23 PST 2005

Would that we had such a Window into the technical arguments that go on
at Microsoft.
--
I love the smell of code compiling in the morning. It smells like... Freedom.
George Ellison
2005-12-21 02:53:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Linønut
At the risk of feeding the scum-sucking Wintrolls, I found this thread
http://lists.osdl.org/pipermail/desktop_architects/2005-December/000486.html
[Desktop_architects] Printing dialog and GNOME
Linus Torvalds torvalds at osdl.org
Tue Dec 13 13:44:23 PST 2005
Would that we had such a Window into the technical arguments that go on
at Microsoft.
Think this was on /. a few days back. Sad thing is, the GNOME guys don't
seem to think there's a problem and keep crowing on about how they're some
sort of 'standard.' Ah, well. It's not like I have to use the POS.
--
Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp! cries she
With silent lips. Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me...
-- Emma Lazarus, "The New Colossus"
Rick
2005-12-21 03:31:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Ellison
Post by Linønut
At the risk of feeding the scum-sucking Wintrolls, I found this thread
http://lists.osdl.org/pipermail/desktop_architects/2005-December/000486.html
[Desktop_architects] Printing dialog and GNOME
Linus Torvalds torvalds at osdl.org
Tue Dec 13 13:44:23 PST 2005
Would that we had such a Window into the technical arguments that go on
at Microsoft.
Think this was on /. a few days back. Sad thing is, the GNOME guys don't
seem to think there's a problem and keep crowing on about how they're some
sort of 'standard.' Ah, well. It's not like I have to use the POS.
It does seem like a lot of distros are moving to it.

Ah, well, as long as the distros keep including both, I can live with it.
--
Rick
George Ellison
2005-12-21 04:08:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rick
Post by George Ellison
Post by Linønut
At the risk of feeding the scum-sucking Wintrolls, I found this thread
http://lists.osdl.org/pipermail/desktop_architects/2005-December/000486.html
[Desktop_architects] Printing dialog and GNOME
Linus Torvalds torvalds at osdl.org
Tue Dec 13 13:44:23 PST 2005
Would that we had such a Window into the technical arguments that go on
at Microsoft.
Think this was on /. a few days back. Sad thing is, the GNOME guys don't
seem to think there's a problem and keep crowing on about how they're some
sort of 'standard.' Ah, well. It's not like I have to use the POS.
It does seem like a lot of distros are moving to it.
Ah, well, as long as the distros keep including both, I can live with it.
I think that might actually do GNOME more harm than good. They already
answer to Red Hat, Sun, RMS, and god knows who else. The KDE team first
and foremost answer to themselves, and their goals seem to begin and end
with the quality of their product.
--
A young husband with an inferiority complex insisted he was just a
little pebble on the beach. The marriage counselor told him, "If you wish to
save your marriage, you'd better be a little boulder."
Rick
2005-12-21 04:12:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Ellison
Post by Rick
Post by George Ellison
Post by Linønut
At the risk of feeding the scum-sucking Wintrolls, I found this thread
http://lists.osdl.org/pipermail/desktop_architects/2005-December/000486.html
[Desktop_architects] Printing dialog and GNOME
Linus Torvalds torvalds at osdl.org
Tue Dec 13 13:44:23 PST 2005
Would that we had such a Window into the technical arguments that go
on at Microsoft.
Think this was on /. a few days back. Sad thing is, the GNOME guys
don't seem to think there's a problem and keep crowing on about how
they're some sort of 'standard.' Ah, well. It's not like I have to use
the POS.
It does seem like a lot of distros are moving to it.
Ah, well, as long as the distros keep including both, I can live with it.
I think that might actually do GNOME more harm than good. They already
answer to Red Hat, Sun, RMS, and god knows who else. The KDE team first
and foremost answer to themselves, and their goals seem to begin and end
with the quality of their product.
I think the Gnome team would have us believe they make all their changes
from usability studies... if that is true, I wonder why so many people
screamed about losing KDE, and no one cheered about Gnome moving to
default.
--
Rick
George Ellison
2005-12-21 04:15:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rick
Post by George Ellison
Post by Rick
Post by George Ellison
Post by Linønut
At the risk of feeding the scum-sucking Wintrolls, I found this thread
http://lists.osdl.org/pipermail/desktop_architects/2005-December/000486.html
[Desktop_architects] Printing dialog and GNOME
Linus Torvalds torvalds at osdl.org
Tue Dec 13 13:44:23 PST 2005
Would that we had such a Window into the technical arguments that go
on at Microsoft.
Think this was on /. a few days back. Sad thing is, the GNOME guys
don't seem to think there's a problem and keep crowing on about how
they're some sort of 'standard.' Ah, well. It's not like I have to use
the POS.
It does seem like a lot of distros are moving to it.
Ah, well, as long as the distros keep including both, I can live with it.
I think that might actually do GNOME more harm than good. They already
answer to Red Hat, Sun, RMS, and god knows who else. The KDE team first
and foremost answer to themselves, and their goals seem to begin and end
with the quality of their product.
I think the Gnome team would have us believe they make all their changes
from usability studies... if that is true, I wonder why so many people
screamed about losing KDE, and no one cheered about Gnome moving to
default.
Usability my ass. I can think of quite a few reasons why compositing (not
really essential, but one of my fav toys) is a DIY in Gnome, and they've
got jack shit to do with usability and quite a bit to do with politics.
--
BOFH Excuse #95:

Pentium FDIV bug
Linønut
2005-12-21 12:40:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rick
Post by George Ellison
I think that might actually do GNOME more harm than good. They already
answer to Red Hat, Sun, RMS, and god knows who else. The KDE team first
and foremost answer to themselves, and their goals seem to begin and end
with the quality of their product.
I think the Gnome team would have us believe they make all their changes
from usability studies... if that is true, I wonder why so many people
screamed about losing KDE, and no one cheered about Gnome moving to
default.
I think it is because KDE more closely resembles the Windows desktop.
--
I love the smell of code compiling in the morning. It smells like... Freedom.
George Ellison
2005-12-21 15:53:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Linønut
Post by Rick
Post by George Ellison
I think that might actually do GNOME more harm than good. They already
answer to Red Hat, Sun, RMS, and god knows who else. The KDE team first
and foremost answer to themselves, and their goals seem to begin and end
with the quality of their product.
I think the Gnome team would have us believe they make all their changes
from usability studies... if that is true, I wonder why so many people
screamed about losing KDE, and no one cheered about Gnome moving to
default.
I think it is because KDE more closely resembles the Windows desktop.
Mine actually looks more like an OSX clone right now. There's just so much
shit going on with KDE to where it can look like pretty much anything. Even
the 'essential' apps (kicker, kwin) can be replaced fairly easily.
--
The world wants to be deceived.
-- Sebastian Brant
Rick
2005-12-21 20:30:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Ellison
Post by Linønut
Post by Rick
Post by George Ellison
I think that might actually do GNOME more harm than good. They already
answer to Red Hat, Sun, RMS, and god knows who else. The KDE team
first and foremost answer to themselves, and their goals seem to begin
and end with the quality of their product.
I think the Gnome team would have us believe they make all their
changes from usability studies... if that is true, I wonder why so many
people screamed about losing KDE, and no one cheered about Gnome moving
to default.
I think it is because KDE more closely resembles the Windows desktop.
Mine actually looks more like an OSX clone right now. There's just so much
shit going on with KDE to where it can look like pretty much anything.
Even the 'essential' apps (kicker, kwin) can be replaced fairly easily.
How do you replace kwin? I'd like to use WindowMaker instead.
--
Rick
George Ellison
2005-12-21 20:33:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rick
Post by George Ellison
Post by Linønut
Post by Rick
Post by George Ellison
I think that might actually do GNOME more harm than good. They already
answer to Red Hat, Sun, RMS, and god knows who else. The KDE team
first and foremost answer to themselves, and their goals seem to begin
and end with the quality of their product.
I think the Gnome team would have us believe they make all their
changes from usability studies... if that is true, I wonder why so many
people screamed about losing KDE, and no one cheered about Gnome moving
to default.
I think it is because KDE more closely resembles the Windows desktop.
Mine actually looks more like an OSX clone right now. There's just so much
shit going on with KDE to where it can look like pretty much anything.
Even the 'essential' apps (kicker, kwin) can be replaced fairly easily.
How do you replace kwin? I'd like to use WindowMaker instead.
Pull up a command box or xterm, punch in 'killall kwin', watch everything go to
hell, then pull it up again and punch in wmaker and watch everything
(theoretically) fix itself. I just did it with Fluxbox, and all of the windows
and workspaces seem to work (although kxdocker doesn't seem to want to appear
on more than one desktop).

YMMV.
--
BOFH Excuse #432:

Borg nanites have infested the server
Rick
2005-12-21 21:34:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Ellison
Post by Rick
Post by George Ellison
Post by Linønut
Post by Rick
Post by George Ellison
I think that might actually do GNOME more harm than good. They
already answer to Red Hat, Sun, RMS, and god knows who else. The KDE
team first and foremost answer to themselves, and their goals seem
to begin and end with the quality of their product.
I think the Gnome team would have us believe they make all their
changes from usability studies... if that is true, I wonder why so
many people screamed about losing KDE, and no one cheered about Gnome
moving to default.
I think it is because KDE more closely resembles the Windows desktop.
Mine actually looks more like an OSX clone right now. There's just so
much shit going on with KDE to where it can look like pretty much
anything. Even the 'essential' apps (kicker, kwin) can be replaced
fairly easily.
How do you replace kwin? I'd like to use WindowMaker instead.
Pull up a command box or xterm, punch in 'killall kwin', watch everything
go to hell, then pull it up again and punch in wmaker and watch everything
(theoretically) fix itself. I just did it with Fluxbox, and all of the
windows and workspaces seem to work (although kxdocker doesn't seem to
want to appear on more than one desktop).
Is that good only for the current session?
Can it hose my KDE installation?
Post by George Ellison
YMMV.
--
Rick
George Ellison
2005-12-21 22:31:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rick
Post by George Ellison
Post by Rick
Post by George Ellison
Post by Linønut
Post by Rick
Post by George Ellison
I think that might actually do GNOME more harm than good. They
already answer to Red Hat, Sun, RMS, and god knows who else. The KDE
team first and foremost answer to themselves, and their goals seem
to begin and end with the quality of their product.
I think the Gnome team would have us believe they make all their
changes from usability studies... if that is true, I wonder why so
many people screamed about losing KDE, and no one cheered about Gnome
moving to default.
I think it is because KDE more closely resembles the Windows desktop.
Mine actually looks more like an OSX clone right now. There's just so
much shit going on with KDE to where it can look like pretty much
anything. Even the 'essential' apps (kicker, kwin) can be replaced
fairly easily.
How do you replace kwin? I'd like to use WindowMaker instead.
Pull up a command box or xterm, punch in 'killall kwin', watch everything
go to hell, then pull it up again and punch in wmaker and watch everything
(theoretically) fix itself. I just did it with Fluxbox, and all of the
windows and workspaces seem to work (although kxdocker doesn't seem to
want to appear on more than one desktop).
Is that good only for the current session?
Can it hose my KDE installation?
It shouldn't hose anything permanently, because, to fix it you just do the
same thing in reverse.
Post by Rick
Post by George Ellison
YMMV.
--
Rick
--
I can feel for her because, although I have never been an Alaskan prostitute
dancing on the bar in a spangled dress, I still get very bored with washing
and ironing and dishwashing and cooking day after relentless day.
-- Betty MacDonald
Linønut
2005-12-22 00:12:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Ellison
Post by Rick
How do you replace kwin? I'd like to use WindowMaker instead.
Pull up a command box or xterm, punch in 'killall kwin', watch everything go to
hell, then pull it up again and punch in wmaker and watch everything
(theoretically) fix itself. I just did it with Fluxbox, and all of the windows
and workspaces seem to work (although kxdocker doesn't seem to want to appear
on more than one desktop).
The GDM login prompt lets you choose from all installed window managers,
including KDE.

I would think KDM would have the same kind of deal workin'.
--
I love the smell of code compiling in the morning. It smells like... Freedom.
Peter Köhlmann
2005-12-22 00:41:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Linønut
Post by George Ellison
Post by Rick
How do you replace kwin? I'd like to use WindowMaker instead.
Pull up a command box or xterm, punch in 'killall kwin', watch everything
go to hell, then pull it up again and punch in wmaker and watch
everything (theoretically) fix itself. I just did it with Fluxbox, and
all of the windows and workspaces seem to work (although kxdocker doesn't
seem to want to appear on more than one desktop).
The GDM login prompt lets you choose from all installed window managers,
including KDE.
I would think KDM would have the same kind of deal workin'.
It does
--
A NT server can be run by idiots and usually is
Rick
2005-12-22 02:35:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom Shelton
Post by Linønut
Post by George Ellison
Post by Rick
How do you replace kwin? I'd like to use WindowMaker instead.
Pull up a command box or xterm, punch in 'killall kwin', watch
everything go to hell, then pull it up again and punch in wmaker and
watch everything (theoretically) fix itself. I just did it with
Fluxbox, and all of the windows and workspaces seem to work (although
kxdocker doesn't seem to want to appear on more than one desktop).
The GDM login prompt lets you choose from all installed window managers,
including KDE.
I would think KDM would have the same kind of deal workin'.
It does
But selecting WindowMaker is not the same as using WindowMaker as the
window manager in KDE, and there is no selection in the session manager of
kdm for that.
--
Rick
Linønut
2005-12-22 12:35:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rick
Post by Tom Shelton
Post by Linønut
The GDM login prompt lets you choose from all installed window managers,
including KDE.
I would think KDM would have the same kind of deal workin'.
It does
But selecting WindowMaker is not the same as using WindowMaker as the
window manager in KDE,
What is the nature of the difference?
Post by Rick
and there is no selection in the session manager of
kdm for that.
--
I love the smell of code compiling in the morning. It smells like... Freedom.
Rick
2005-12-22 13:59:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Linønut
Post by Rick
Post by Tom Shelton
Post by Linønut
The GDM login prompt lets you choose from all installed window
managers, including KDE.
I would think KDM would have the same kind of deal workin'.
It does
But selecting WindowMaker is not the same as using WindowMaker as the
window manager in KDE,
What is the nature of the difference?
Are you serious?

using WindowMaker alone is not the same as using KDE/kwin, which is not
the same as using KDE/WindowMaker. I assume you can understand the first
2. For the last, kwin does not have a dock as WindowMaker does, for one.
Post by Linønut
Post by Rick
and there is no selection in the session manager of kdm for that.
--
Rick
Linønut
2005-12-22 15:13:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rick
Post by Linønut
Post by Rick
But selecting WindowMaker is not the same as using WindowMaker as the
window manager in KDE,
What is the nature of the difference?
Are you serious?
using WindowMaker alone is not the same as using KDE/kwin, which is not
the same as using KDE/WindowMaker. I assume you can understand the first
2. For the last, kwin does not have a dock as WindowMaker does, for one.
Now now, don't be a prick about it.

As you may have seen, I figured it out myself.

Your quest for integrating WindowMaker might well be futile. Unless
the WindowMaker developers subscribe to the tenets of freedesktop.org.
--
I love the smell of code compiling in the morning. It smells like... Freedom.
Rick
2005-12-22 16:30:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Linønut
Post by Rick
Post by Linønut
Post by Rick
But selecting WindowMaker is not the same as using WindowMaker as the
window manager in KDE,
What is the nature of the difference?
Are you serious?
using WindowMaker alone is not the same as using KDE/kwin, which is not
the same as using KDE/WindowMaker. I assume you can understand the first
2. For the last, kwin does not have a dock as WindowMaker does, for one.
Now now, don't be a prick about it.
As you may have seen, I figured it out myself.
Your quest for integrating WindowMaker might well be futile. Unless the
WindowMaker developers subscribe to the tenets of freedesktop.org.
There is a './configure --enable-kde' command.
--
Rick
Linønut
2005-12-22 19:38:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rick
Post by Linønut
Your quest for integrating WindowMaker might well be futile. Unless the
WindowMaker developers subscribe to the tenets of freedesktop.org.
There is a './configure --enable-kde' command.
Cool. Sounds like you got what you want, then. Maybe?
--
I love the smell of code compiling in the morning. It smells like... Freedom.
Rick
2005-12-22 20:09:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Linønut
Post by Rick
Post by Linønut
Your quest for integrating WindowMaker might well be futile. Unless
the WindowMaker developers subscribe to the tenets of freedesktop.org.
There is a './configure --enable-kde' command.
Cool. Sounds like you got what you want, then. Maybe?
Not at the moment, no.
--
Rick
Linønut
2005-12-23 13:34:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rick
Post by Linønut
Post by Rick
Post by Linønut
Your quest for integrating WindowMaker might well be futile. Unless
the WindowMaker developers subscribe to the tenets of freedesktop.org.
There is a './configure --enable-kde' command.
Cool. Sounds like you got what you want, then. Maybe?
Not at the moment, no.
I don't get what's missing then, you have a WindowMaker selection at
login, and you can build WindowMaker to communicate KDE-style with KDE
processes.
--
I love the smell of code compiling in the morning. It smells like... Freedom.
Rick
2005-12-23 21:21:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Linønut
Post by Rick
Post by Linønut
Post by Rick
Post by Linønut
Your quest for integrating WindowMaker might well be futile. Unless
the WindowMaker developers subscribe to the tenets of
freedesktop.org.
There is a './configure --enable-kde' command.
Cool. Sounds like you got what you want, then. Maybe?
Not at the moment, no.
I don't get what's missing then, you have a WindowMaker selection at
login,
Supposedly.
Post by Linønut
and you can build WindowMaker to communicate KDE-style with KDE
processes.
But it is still running outside of DKE, as ooposed to running inside of
KDE, replacing kwin.
--
Rick
Linønut
2005-12-24 00:37:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rick
Post by Linønut
and you can build WindowMaker to communicate KDE-style with KDE
processes.
But it is still running outside of DKE, as ooposed to running inside of
KDE, replacing kwin.
I thought only one window manager could be in control of an X display.
--
I love the smell of code compiling in the morning. It smells like... Freedom.
George Ellison
2005-12-24 00:50:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Linønut
Post by Rick
Post by Linønut
and you can build WindowMaker to communicate KDE-style with KDE
processes.
But it is still running outside of DKE, as ooposed to running inside of
KDE, replacing kwin.
I thought only one window manager could be in control of an X display.
True. But the wm doesn't have to be kwin.
--
Glen Quagmire: Don't look at me like that. Fat chicks need love too... but they
got to pay.
Linønut
2005-12-24 03:12:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Ellison
Post by Linønut
Post by Rick
But it is still running outside of DKE, as ooposed to running inside of
KDE, replacing kwin.
I thought only one window manager could be in control of an X display.
True. But the wm doesn't have to be kwin.
That's my point. I'm trying to get Rick to clarify.
--
I love the smell of code compiling in the morning. It smells like... Freedom.
George Ellison
2005-12-24 03:13:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Linønut
Post by George Ellison
Post by Linønut
Post by Rick
But it is still running outside of DKE, as ooposed to running inside of
KDE, replacing kwin.
I thought only one window manager could be in control of an X display.
True. But the wm doesn't have to be kwin.
That's my point. I'm trying to get Rick to clarify.
I'm just curious as to whether he's given it a try yet. I'd give it a go
myself, but I hate WMaker and don't want to install it again.
--
I only know what I read in the papers.
-- Will Rogers
Rick
2005-12-24 04:21:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Ellison
Post by Linønut
Post by George Ellison
Post by Linønut
Post by Rick
But it is still running outside of DKE, as ooposed to running inside
of KDE, replacing kwin.
I thought only one window manager could be in control of an X display.
True. But the wm doesn't have to be kwin.
That's my point. I'm trying to get Rick to clarify.
I'm just curious as to whether he's given it a try yet. I'd give it a go
myself, but I hate WMaker and don't want to install it again.
No, I haven't tried it. I don't know how, which is what I was trying to
figure out.
--
Rick
George Ellison
2005-12-24 12:55:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rick
Post by George Ellison
Post by Linønut
Post by George Ellison
Post by Linønut
Post by Rick
But it is still running outside of DKE, as ooposed to running inside
of KDE, replacing kwin.
I thought only one window manager could be in control of an X display.
True. But the wm doesn't have to be kwin.
That's my point. I'm trying to get Rick to clarify.
I'm just curious as to whether he's given it a try yet. I'd give it a go
myself, but I hate WMaker and don't want to install it again.
No, I haven't tried it. I don't know how, which is what I was trying to
figure out.
Are you trying to import all of WMaker (the dock and everything else), or
just the wm?
--
Department chairmen never die, they just lose their faculties.
Rick
2005-12-24 23:03:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Ellison
Post by Rick
Post by George Ellison
Post by Linønut
Post by George Ellison
Post by Linønut
Post by Rick
But it is still running outside of DKE, as ooposed to running
inside of KDE, replacing kwin.
I thought only one window manager could be in control of an X display.
True. But the wm doesn't have to be kwin.
That's my point. I'm trying to get Rick to clarify.
I'm just curious as to whether he's given it a try yet. I'd give it a
go myself, but I hate WMaker and don't want to install it again.
No, I haven't tried it. I don't know how, which is what I was trying to
figure out.
Are you trying to import all of WMaker (the dock and everything else), or
just the wm?
I want all of WindowMaker functional as the window manager, replacing
kwin, in KDE.
--
Rick
George Ellison
2005-12-24 23:06:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rick
Post by George Ellison
Post by Rick
Post by George Ellison
Post by Linønut
Post by George Ellison
Post by Linønut
Post by Rick
But it is still running outside of DKE, as ooposed to running
inside of KDE, replacing kwin.
I thought only one window manager could be in control of an X display.
True. But the wm doesn't have to be kwin.
That's my point. I'm trying to get Rick to clarify.
I'm just curious as to whether he's given it a try yet. I'd give it a
go myself, but I hate WMaker and don't want to install it again.
No, I haven't tried it. I don't know how, which is what I was trying to
figure out.
Are you trying to import all of WMaker (the dock and everything else), or
just the wm?
I want all of WindowMaker functional as the window manager, replacing
kwin, in KDE.
Don't think you're going to be able to pull that off. Usually under KDE, it'll
scrap all of the non-wm functionality. Give it a try and see how it goes,
though.
--
Hey! Come merry dol! derry dol! My darling!
Light goes the weather-wind and the feathered starling.

Down along under Hill, shining in the sunlight,
Waiting on the doorstep for the cold starlight,
There my pretty lady is, River-woman's daughter,
Slender as the willow-wand, clearer than the water.

Old Tom Bombadil water-lilies bringing
Comes hopping home again. Can you hear him singing?
Hey! Come merry dol! derry dol! and merry-o
Goldberry, Goldberry, merry yellow berry-o!

Poor old Willow-man, you tuck your roots away!
Tom's in a hurry now. Evening will follow day.
Tom's going home again water-lilies bringing.
Hey! come derry dol! Can you hear me singing?
-- J. R. R. Tolkien
Rick
2005-12-24 04:21:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Linønut
Post by George Ellison
Post by Linønut
Post by Rick
But it is still running outside of DKE, as ooposed to running inside
of KDE, replacing kwin.
I thought only one window manager could be in control of an X display.
True. But the wm doesn't have to be kwin.
That's my point. I'm trying to get Rick to clarify.
I DID clarify. I had asked about replacing kwin with WindowMaker.
--
Rick
Jim Richardson
2005-12-24 06:52:58 UTC
Permalink
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On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 04:21:10 GMT,
Post by Rick
Post by Linønut
Post by George Ellison
Post by Linønut
Post by Rick
But it is still running outside of DKE, as ooposed to running inside
of KDE, replacing kwin.
I thought only one window manager could be in control of an X display.
True. But the wm doesn't have to be kwin.
That's my point. I'm trying to get Rick to clarify.
I DID clarify. I had asked about replacing kwin with WindowMaker.
export KDEWM=`which wmaker`
startkde

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--
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
Reality continues to ruin my life.
-- Calvin
Rick
2005-12-24 23:04:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Richardson
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On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 04:21:10 GMT,
Post by Rick
Post by Linønut
Post by George Ellison
Post by Linønut
Post by Rick
But it is still running outside of DKE, as ooposed to running inside
of KDE, replacing kwin.
I thought only one window manager could be in control of an X display.
True. But the wm doesn't have to be kwin.
That's my point. I'm trying to get Rick to clarify.
I DID clarify. I had asked about replacing kwin with WindowMaker.
export KDEWM=`which wmaker`
startkde
can I get kwin back by replacing wmaker with kwin?
--
Rick
Jim Richardson
2005-12-25 01:37:02 UTC
Permalink
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On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 23:04:55 GMT,
Post by Rick
Post by Jim Richardson
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Hash: SHA1
On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 04:21:10 GMT,
Post by Rick
Post by Linønut
Post by George Ellison
Post by Linønut
Post by Rick
But it is still running outside of DKE, as ooposed to running inside
of KDE, replacing kwin.
I thought only one window manager could be in control of an X display.
True. But the wm doesn't have to be kwin.
That's my point. I'm trying to get Rick to clarify.
I DID clarify. I had asked about replacing kwin with WindowMaker.
export KDEWM=`which wmaker`
startkde
can I get kwin back by replacing wmaker with kwin?
the startkde script will use whatever is set as KDEWM for a
windowmanager, if KDEWM is not set, it will use the default kwin.

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--
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
"We have captured lightning and used it to teach sand how to think."
Sinister Midget
2005-12-24 07:52:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rick
Post by Linønut
Post by George Ellison
Post by Linønut
Post by Rick
But it is still running outside of DKE, as ooposed to running inside
of KDE, replacing kwin.
I thought only one window manager could be in control of an X display.
True. But the wm doesn't have to be kwin.
That's my point. I'm trying to get Rick to clarify.
I DID clarify. I had asked about replacing kwin with WindowMaker.
Set 'KDEWM' to wmaker, then run 'startkde' and it will call it.

There are several ways you can do that:

1. System-wide. In /etc/profile make a line that says:

export KDEWM=wmaker

2. In your desktop login (.xinitrc or .xsessions, depending on how you
login). Use the same line as about.

3. 'startkde' is a text file, and it can be added near the top there.

There are probably other ways as well. But I'm tired and am not
thinking my best.

I just did it, so I know it works. I also tried it with OpenBox and
IceWM as well, and both worked fine. If using something that has its
own panel you'll need to move one of them to avoid having them on top
of each other.

I couldn't get XFCE to work. But that's probably because I didn't spend
enough time on it. Maybe tomorrow.
--
Gaupim: Innovative Microsoft peer-to-peer software.
Linønut
2005-12-24 14:39:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sinister Midget
Set 'KDEWM' to wmaker, then run 'startkde' and it will call it.
export KDEWM=wmaker
2. In your desktop login (.xinitrc or .xsessions, depending on how you
login). Use the same line as about.
3. 'startkde' is a text file, and it can be added near the top there.
There are probably other ways as well. But I'm tired and am not
thinking my best.
I just did it, so I know it works. I also tried it with OpenBox and
IceWM as well, and both worked fine. If using something that has its
own panel you'll need to move one of them to avoid having them on top
of each other.
I couldn't get XFCE to work. But that's probably because I didn't spend
enough time on it. Maybe tomorrow.
Thanks for the details, SM. You can also edit .Xsession and put
whatever you want in it, and (at least with GDM) choose this way to
start the window manager:

xset 16/10 0
exec startxfce4

But I'm running fluxbox now, and I tell GDM directly to start that one.
--
I love the smell of code compiling in the morning. It smells like... Freedom.
Rick
2005-12-24 23:08:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sinister Midget
Post by Rick
Post by Linønut
Post by George Ellison
Post by Linønut
Post by Rick
But it is still running outside of DKE, as ooposed to running inside
of KDE, replacing kwin.
I thought only one window manager could be in control of an X display.
True. But the wm doesn't have to be kwin.
That's my point. I'm trying to get Rick to clarify.
I DID clarify. I had asked about replacing kwin with WindowMaker.
Set 'KDEWM' to wmaker, then run 'startkde' and it will call it.
export KDEWM=wmaker
2. In your desktop login (.xinitrc or .xsessions, depending on how you
login). Use the same line as about.
3. 'startkde' is a text file, and it can be added near the top there.
There are probably other ways as well. But I'm tired and am not thinking
my best.
I just did it, so I know it works. I also tried it with OpenBox and IceWM
as well, and both worked fine. If using something that has its own panel
you'll need to move one of them to avoid having them on top of each other.
I couldn't get XFCE to work. But that's probably because I didn't spend
enough time on it. Maybe tomorrow.
Thanks. I'll give those a try.
--
Rick
Wegaf-hir-auser-heqa III
2005-12-24 23:10:10 UTC
Permalink
I couldn't think of where to start, so I didn't.
Rick
2005-12-22 02:33:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Linønut
Post by George Ellison
Post by Rick
How do you replace kwin? I'd like to use WindowMaker instead.
Pull up a command box or xterm, punch in 'killall kwin', watch
everything go to hell, then pull it up again and punch in wmaker and
watch everything (theoretically) fix itself. I just did it with Fluxbox,
and all of the windows and workspaces seem to work (although kxdocker
doesn't seem to want to appear on more than one desktop).
The GDM login prompt lets you choose from all installed window managers,
including KDE.
I would think KDM would have the same kind of deal workin'.
It does, but if you select KDE, you use kwin. When you select WindowMaker,
neither KDE nor Gnome are running, although you can use some (most?) of
their features in one way or another.
--
Rick
Linønut
2005-12-22 12:37:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rick
Post by Linønut
Post by George Ellison
Post by Rick
How do you replace kwin? I'd like to use WindowMaker instead.
Pull up a command box or xterm, punch in 'killall kwin', watch
everything go to hell, then pull it up again and punch in wmaker and
watch everything (theoretically) fix itself. I just did it with Fluxbox,
and all of the windows and workspaces seem to work (although kxdocker
doesn't seem to want to appear on more than one desktop).
The GDM login prompt lets you choose from all installed window managers,
including KDE.
I would think KDM would have the same kind of deal workin'.
It does, but if you select KDE, you use kwin. When you select WindowMaker,
neither KDE nor Gnome are running, although you can use some (most?) of
their features in one way or another.
Oh, I see, there's no interapp communications stuff (like CORBA in
Gnome) running, right?

Frankly, getting rid of that bloat is one reason I was running XFce, and
now fluxbox.
--
I love the smell of code compiling in the morning. It smells like... Freedom.
Francis Burton
2005-12-21 22:27:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Ellison
Mine actually looks more like an OSX clone right now. There's just so much
shit going on with KDE to where it can look like pretty much anything. Even
the 'essential' apps (kicker, kwin) can be replaced fairly easily.
Does it =behave= like an OSX clone too?

Francis
George Ellison
2005-12-21 22:31:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Francis Burton
Post by George Ellison
Mine actually looks more like an OSX clone right now. There's just so much
shit going on with KDE to where it can look like pretty much anything. Even
the 'essential' apps (kicker, kwin) can be replaced fairly easily.
Does it =behave= like an OSX clone too?
Superficially. And that's about as much as I'd care for it to.
--
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World
War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.
-- Albert Einstein
Rick
2005-12-22 02:35:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Francis Burton
Post by George Ellison
Mine actually looks more like an OSX clone right now. There's just so
much shit going on with KDE to where it can look like pretty much
anything. Even the 'essential' apps (kicker, kwin) can be replaced fairly
easily.
Does it =behave= like an OSX clone too?
Francis
No. It behaves like KDE. Sheesh.
--
Rick
Francis Burton
2005-12-23 12:23:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rick
Post by Francis Burton
Post by George Ellison
Mine actually looks more like an OSX clone right now. There's just so
much shit going on with KDE to where it can look like pretty much
anything. Even the 'essential' apps (kicker, kwin) can be replaced fairly
easily.
Does it =behave= like an OSX clone too?
Francis
No. It behaves like KDE. Sheesh.
How could it =possibly= do otherwise. Duh. Sheesh. :-)

Let me try another question. Is KDE sufficiently configurable in
its "feel" (as well as its "look") to allow it to behave like an
OSX clone?

Francis
Rick
2005-12-23 13:22:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Francis Burton
Post by Rick
Post by Francis Burton
Post by George Ellison
Mine actually looks more like an OSX clone right now. There's just so
much shit going on with KDE to where it can look like pretty much
anything. Even the 'essential' apps (kicker, kwin) can be replaced
fairly easily.
Does it =behave= like an OSX clone too?
Francis
No. It behaves like KDE. Sheesh.
How could it =possibly= do otherwise. Duh. Sheesh. :-)
Let me try another question. Is KDE sufficiently configurable in its
"feel" (as well as its "look") to allow it to behave like an OSX clone?
Francis
What is the difference between "Does it =behave= like an OSX clone too"
and "to allow it to behave like an OSX clone"?

KDE can look very much like OS X. Under the looks, they can be very
different.
--
Rick
Francis Burton
2005-12-23 15:37:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rick
KDE can look very much like OS X. Under the looks, they can be very
different.
Under the looks, can they be very similar? Can KDE be made to
=feel= like OSX?

Francis
The Ghost In The Machine
2005-12-23 17:00:07 UTC
Permalink
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Francis Burton
<***@nyx.net>
wrote
on 23 Dec 2005 15:37:03 GMT
Post by Francis Burton
Post by Rick
KDE can look very much like OS X. Under the looks, they can be very
different.
Under the looks, can they be very similar? Can KDE be made to
=feel= like OSX?
Erm, dumb question. Linux is a multilayer system in most
distributions, something along the lines of:

Desktop: KDE Gnome
Widgeting: Qt Gtk
Display Abstraction: ? Gdk
Display: X
Util: OS utilities (mv, cp, rm, tar, man, ...)
Util Libraries: libz
Base Libraries: libc, libm
Kernel: Linux

FreeBSD has a very similar architecture, except for the kernel.

Windows shows a vaguely similar layering, though it's less clear
to me personally:

Windows Applications: Notepad, Word, Office, etc.
Highlevel APIs: ADO WinInet/WinHTTP
Lowlevel APIs: Win32 (includes display & widgeting)
Modules/Drivers: Windows modules (e.g., the NTFS handler)
Kernel: Windows XP kernel

Now I am assuming OSX is a generic term for the lower part of
the system, which includes the kernel, drivers, utilities, and
lowerlevel libraries. Aqua is a term occasionally tossed
about, which presumably is a combination display management/
widgeting layer. There's also the old Quicktime, which presumably
is supported as well (it's analogous to X or Win32).

It is theoretically possible to put Win32 et al over X, and WinE
does exactly that. The look and feel is a bit odd, mostly
because the code within WinE appears to hew more towards
Win 3.1 than towards "modern" Win95, but the functionality
works fairly well. Contrariwise, X can sit over Win32 with
efforts such as Cygnus X. AIUI, X also sits over an OSX layer.

So what is the OSX layering?
Post by Francis Burton
Francis
--
#191, ***@earthlink.net
It's still legal to go .sigless.
Francis Burton
2005-12-23 17:38:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Ghost In The Machine
Post by Francis Burton
Post by Rick
KDE can look very much like OS X. Under the looks, they can be very
different.
Under the looks, can they be very similar? Can KDE be made to
=feel= like OSX?
Erm, dumb question. Linux is a multilayer system in most
[...]
Ask a simple question and ...

Let me try again. Presumably there is something like a "themes"
chooser panel in KDE which allows an OSX lookalike theme to be
selected. (I use "OSX" because someone wrote "Mine actually looks
more like an OSX clone right now." I suppose "Aqua" would be the
correct word here.) When that theme is selected, does it change
the =feel= to OSX/Aqua too, or just the look? If the latter, is
there a way in KDE to change the feel to OSX/Aqua - either by
selecting from a list of options, or by fiddling with settings?

Francis
George Ellison
2005-12-23 17:42:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Francis Burton
Post by The Ghost In The Machine
Post by Francis Burton
Post by Rick
KDE can look very much like OS X. Under the looks, they can be very
different.
Under the looks, can they be very similar? Can KDE be made to
=feel= like OSX?
Erm, dumb question. Linux is a multilayer system in most
[...]
Ask a simple question and ...
Let me try again. Presumably there is something like a "themes"
chooser panel in KDE which allows an OSX lookalike theme to be
selected. (I use "OSX" because someone wrote "Mine actually looks
more like an OSX clone right now." I suppose "Aqua" would be the
correct word here.) When that theme is selected, does it change
the =feel= to OSX/Aqua too, or just the look? If the latter, is
there a way in KDE to change the feel to OSX/Aqua - either by
selecting from a list of options, or by fiddling with settings?
Well, to be perfectly honest with you, my OSX experience is limited to what
I've seen at CompUSA. With kxdocker, the correct theme (I use Baghira), and
the menu on top, it's a rather close resemblance, but as far as 'feel,' I
really can't tell you. A lot of different behaviors of the WM can be
customized, and I do so to the point where my system doesn't 'feel' like
OSX, Windoze or standard KDE. It feels like my system.
--
On the night before her family moved from Kansas to California, the little
girl knelt by her bed to say her prayers. "God bless Mommy and Daddy and
Keith and Kim," she said. As she began to get up, she quickly added, "Oh,
and God, this is goodbye. We're moving to Hollywood."
Aragorn
2005-12-23 22:37:38 UTC
Permalink
On Friday 23 December 2005 18:38, Francis Burton stood up and spoke the
following words to the masses in /comp.os.linux.advocacy...:/
Post by Francis Burton
Post by The Ghost In The Machine
Post by Francis Burton
Post by Rick
KDE can look very much like OS X. Under the looks, they can be very
different.
Under the looks, can they be very similar? Can KDE be made to
=feel= like OSX?
Erm, dumb question. Linux is a multilayer system in most
[...]
Ask a simple question and ...
Let me try again. Presumably there is something like a "themes"
chooser panel in KDE which allows an OSX lookalike theme to be
selected. (I use "OSX" because someone wrote "Mine actually looks
more like an OSX clone right now." I suppose "Aqua" would be the
correct word here.) When that theme is selected, does it change
the =feel= to OSX/Aqua too, or just the look? If the latter, is
there a way in KDE to change the feel to OSX/Aqua - either by
selecting from a list of options, or by fiddling with settings?
I'm not too familiar with OS X myself other than what it looks like and
some minor descriptions I've read on what it feels like, but there are
OS X themes freely available for download from /kde.themes.org/ (among
others).

Now, the thing about a theme is that it can install a certain look and a
certain feel, but whether such a theme incorporates both the look and
the feel or not, is still something the "developer" of the individual
theme decides. There are themes which upon installation provide
nothing more than a background, some sounds and a color scheme, while
others customize a lot more.

I think it should be feasible to a large extent to make KDE actually
behave more like OS X, but it will never *be* OS X, of course. Certain
aspects of the OS X user interface will always be specific to OS X, and
certain things in the menus of KDE will always be specific to KDE on
GNU/Linux.

One can also make KDE look more like Windows, but that doesn't _make_ it
into Windows. Similarly, there are alternative desktop environments
for Windows that stem from their UNIX counterpart, but that won't turn
Windows into UNIX.

It's all to be taken with a spoonful of salt. ;-)
--
With kind regards,

*Aragorn*
(Registered GNU/Linux user #223157)
Francis Burton
2005-12-24 16:52:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Aragorn
[...]
One can also make KDE look more like Windows, but that doesn't _make_ it
into Windows. Similarly, there are alternative desktop environments
for Windows that stem from their UNIX counterpart, but that won't turn
Windows into UNIX.
It's all to be taken with a spoonful of salt. ;-)
Thank you, Aragorn (and George Ellison), for your answers!

Francis
George Ellison
2005-12-23 13:24:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Francis Burton
Post by Rick
Post by Francis Burton
Post by George Ellison
Mine actually looks more like an OSX clone right now. There's just so
much shit going on with KDE to where it can look like pretty much
anything. Even the 'essential' apps (kicker, kwin) can be replaced fairly
easily.
Does it =behave= like an OSX clone too?
Francis
No. It behaves like KDE. Sheesh.
How could it =possibly= do otherwise. Duh. Sheesh. :-)
Let me try another question. Is KDE sufficiently configurable in
its "feel" (as well as its "look") to allow it to behave like an
OSX clone?
Nah, it still runs fast.
--
I feel like I'm in a Toilet Bowl with a thumbtack in my forehead!!
Freeride
2005-12-22 00:22:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Linønut
Post by Rick
Post by George Ellison
I think that might actually do GNOME more harm than good. They already
answer to Red Hat, Sun, RMS, and god knows who else. The KDE team
first and foremost answer to themselves, and their goals seem to begin
and end with the quality of their product.
I think the Gnome team would have us believe they make all their
changes from usability studies... if that is true, I wonder why so many
people screamed about losing KDE, and no one cheered about Gnome moving
to default.
I think it is because KDE more closely resembles the Windows desktop.
I would not say that, KDE is WAY more customizable than Windows. I
personally like the clean smoothness look of Gnome but like the bells and
whistles that comes with KDE.
Rick
2005-12-22 02:37:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Freeride
Post by Linønut
Post by Rick
Post by George Ellison
I think that might actually do GNOME more harm than good. They already
answer to Red Hat, Sun, RMS, and god knows who else. The KDE team
first and foremost answer to themselves, and their goals seem to begin
and end with the quality of their product.
I think the Gnome team would have us believe they make all their
changes from usability studies... if that is true, I wonder why so many
people screamed about losing KDE, and no one cheered about Gnome moving
to default.
I think it is because KDE more closely resembles the Windows desktop.
I would not say that, KDE is WAY more customizable than Windows. I
personally like the clean smoothness look of Gnome but like the bells and
whistles that comes with KDE.
I do too. I like how Gnome looks, but I like the KDE environment. Now, If
I could get the default Gnome icons, while using WindowMaker as the
window manager in KDE.... aw... I'd probably find something else to want :-)
--
Rick
Roy Schestowitz
2005-12-21 04:07:59 UTC
Permalink
__/ [Rick] on Wednesday 21 December 2005 03:31 \__
Post by Rick
Post by George Ellison
Post by Linønut
At the risk of feeding the scum-sucking Wintrolls, I found this thread
http://lists.osdl.org/pipermail/desktop_architects/2005-December/000486.html
Post by Rick
Post by George Ellison
Post by Linønut
[Desktop_architects] Printing dialog and GNOME
Linus Torvalds torvalds at osdl.org
Tue Dec 13 13:44:23 PST 2005
Would that we had such a Window into the technical arguments that go on
at Microsoft.
Think this was on /. a few days back. Sad thing is, the GNOME guys don't
seem to think there's a problem and keep crowing on about how they're some
sort of 'standard.' Ah, well. It's not like I have to use the POS.
It does seem like a lot of distros are moving to it.
Ah, well, as long as the distros keep including both, I can live with it.
Novell recently made GNOME the default WM in their business desktop offer-
ing (or something to that effect). They give full choice in all other dis-
tributions although and give no priority to one over another. The rest
seem to be going in KDE's directions and hate mail like "die KDE, die"
come from frustrated GNOME developers, which let us face, do a decent job.

I'm with KDE. 4 years ago I liked Enlightment.

Roy

PS - I might as well add that GNOME in Ubuntu is more stable, predicatable
and reliable than KDE on SuSE.
Bruce Scott TOK
2005-12-21 17:11:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Linønut
Post by George Ellison
Post by Linønut
At the risk of feeding the scum-sucking Wintrolls, I found this thread
http://lists.osdl.org/pipermail/desktop_architects/2005-December/000486.html
Post by George Ellison
Post by Linønut
[Desktop_architects] Printing dialog and GNOME
Linus Torvalds torvalds at osdl.org
Tue Dec 13 13:44:23 PST 2005
Would that we had such a Window into the technical arguments that go on
at Microsoft.
Think this was on /. a few days back. Sad thing is, the GNOME guys don't
seem to think there's a problem and keep crowing on about how they're some
sort of 'standard.' Ah, well. It's not like I have to use the POS.
It does seem like a lot of distros are moving to it.
Ah, well, as long as the distros keep including both, I can live with it.
I've never used either. It must be pretty easy to obtain fvwm2 or
whatever else you like and away you go...
--
ciao,
Bruce

drift wave turbulence: http://www.rzg.mpg.de/~bds/
Rick
2005-12-21 20:31:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bruce Scott TOK
Post by Linønut
Post by George Ellison
Post by Linønut
At the risk of feeding the scum-sucking Wintrolls, I found this thread
http://lists.osdl.org/pipermail/desktop_architects/2005-December/000486.html
Post by George Ellison
Post by Linønut
[Desktop_architects] Printing dialog and GNOME
Linus Torvalds torvalds at osdl.org
Tue Dec 13 13:44:23 PST 2005
Would that we had such a Window into the technical arguments that go
on at Microsoft.
Think this was on /. a few days back. Sad thing is, the GNOME guys
don't seem to think there's a problem and keep crowing on about how
they're some sort of 'standard.' Ah, well. It's not like I have to use
the POS.
It does seem like a lot of distros are moving to it.
Ah, well, as long as the distros keep including both, I can live with it.
I've never used either. It must be pretty easy to obtain fvwm2 or
whatever else you like and away you go...
It is very easy to obtain fvwm2 or Windowmaker (my favorite
'alternative'). I started out using fvwm on Linux.
--
Rick
George Ellison
2005-12-21 21:04:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rick
Post by Bruce Scott TOK
Post by Linønut
Post by George Ellison
Post by Linønut
At the risk of feeding the scum-sucking Wintrolls, I found this thread
http://lists.osdl.org/pipermail/desktop_architects/2005-December/000486.html
Post by George Ellison
Post by Linønut
[Desktop_architects] Printing dialog and GNOME
Linus Torvalds torvalds at osdl.org
Tue Dec 13 13:44:23 PST 2005
Would that we had such a Window into the technical arguments that go
on at Microsoft.
Think this was on /. a few days back. Sad thing is, the GNOME guys
don't seem to think there's a problem and keep crowing on about how
they're some sort of 'standard.' Ah, well. It's not like I have to use
the POS.
It does seem like a lot of distros are moving to it.
Ah, well, as long as the distros keep including both, I can live with it.
I've never used either. It must be pretty easy to obtain fvwm2 or
whatever else you like and away you go...
It is very easy to obtain fvwm2 or Windowmaker (my favorite
'alternative'). I started out using fvwm on Linux.
I've never understood fvwm. The crystal theme that's out there is pretty
nice and easy to use (it was my backup wm before I figured out how to make
video and xparency mix), but I've never understood how to configure that
thing and make it not look ugly.
--
Life is knowing how far to go without crossing the line.
Rick
2005-12-21 21:37:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Ellison
Post by Rick
Post by Bruce Scott TOK
Post by Linønut
Post by George Ellison
Post by Linønut
At the risk of feeding the scum-sucking Wintrolls, I found this
http://lists.osdl.org/pipermail/desktop_architects/2005-December/000486.html
Post by George Ellison
Post by Linønut
[Desktop_architects] Printing dialog and GNOME
Linus Torvalds torvalds at osdl.org
Tue Dec 13 13:44:23 PST 2005
Would that we had such a Window into the technical arguments that go
on at Microsoft.
Think this was on /. a few days back. Sad thing is, the GNOME guys
don't seem to think there's a problem and keep crowing on about how
they're some sort of 'standard.' Ah, well. It's not like I have to
use the POS.
It does seem like a lot of distros are moving to it.
Ah, well, as long as the distros keep including both, I can live with it.
I've never used either. It must be pretty easy to obtain fvwm2 or
whatever else you like and away you go...
It is very easy to obtain fvwm2 or Windowmaker (my favorite
'alternative'). I started out using fvwm on Linux.
I've never understood fvwm. The crystal theme that's out there is pretty
nice and easy to use (it was my backup wm before I figured out how to make
video and xparency mix), but I've never understood how to configure that
thing and make it not look ugly.
I don't remember how I had the eye candy set up. I use Aqua themes for
KDE, Gnome and gtk apps now, so I have Aqua-like looks in KDE, Gnome and
WindowMaker.
--
Rick
Linønut
2005-12-21 12:39:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Ellison
Post by Linønut
At the risk of feeding the scum-sucking Wintrolls, I found this thread
http://lists.osdl.org/pipermail/desktop_architects/2005-December/000486.html
[Desktop_architects] Printing dialog and GNOME
Linus Torvalds torvalds at osdl.org
Tue Dec 13 13:44:23 PST 2005
Would that we had such a Window into the technical arguments that go on
at Microsoft.
Think this was on /. a few days back. Sad thing is, the GNOME guys don't
seem to think there's a problem and keep crowing on about how they're some
sort of 'standard.' Ah, well. It's not like I have to use the POS.
I've never understood why people think GNOME is bad. Sure, it has a
couple things missing: total GUI configurability and a dearth of hot
keys.

But it does the job.
--
I love the smell of code compiling in the morning. It smells like... Freedom.
George Ellison
2005-12-21 15:55:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Linønut
Post by George Ellison
Post by Linønut
At the risk of feeding the scum-sucking Wintrolls, I found this thread
http://lists.osdl.org/pipermail/desktop_architects/2005-December/000486.html
[Desktop_architects] Printing dialog and GNOME
Linus Torvalds torvalds at osdl.org
Tue Dec 13 13:44:23 PST 2005
Would that we had such a Window into the technical arguments that go on
at Microsoft.
Think this was on /. a few days back. Sad thing is, the GNOME guys don't
seem to think there's a problem and keep crowing on about how they're some
sort of 'standard.' Ah, well. It's not like I have to use the POS.
I've never understood why people think GNOME is bad. Sure, it has a
couple things missing: total GUI configurability and a dearth of hot
keys.
But it does the job.
I don't think that it's necessarily bad. I just think it's mediocre, offering
little that mid-range WM's like e or xfce don't do with a HELL of a lot more
overhead. Not to mention a web browser that requires you to have a better
web browser installed just to install it. Never got that one.
--
* SynrG notes that the number of configuration questions to answer in
sendmail is NON-TRIVIAL
Tom Shelton
2005-12-21 03:02:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Linønut
At the risk of feeding the scum-sucking Wintrolls, I found this thread
http://lists.osdl.org/pipermail/desktop_architects/2005-December/000486.html
Post by Linønut
[Desktop_architects] Printing dialog and GNOME
Linus Torvalds torvalds at osdl.org
Tue Dec 13 13:44:23 PST 2005
Would that we had such a Window into the technical arguments that go on
at Microsoft.
I personally LOVE fluxbox - though, I have taken a temporary stroll back to
KDE. Just to play with it for a while again - but I plan to move back to
flux soon.

Anyway - I hate Gnome.
--
Tom Shelton
George Ellison
2005-12-21 03:08:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Linønut
Post by Linønut
At the risk of feeding the scum-sucking Wintrolls, I found this thread
http://lists.osdl.org/pipermail/desktop_architects/2005-December/000486.html
Post by Linønut
[Desktop_architects] Printing dialog and GNOME
Linus Torvalds torvalds at osdl.org
Tue Dec 13 13:44:23 PST 2005
Would that we had such a Window into the technical arguments that go on
at Microsoft.
I personally LOVE fluxbox - though, I have taken a temporary stroll back to
KDE. Just to play with it for a while again - but I plan to move back to
flux soon.
Anyway - I hate Gnome.
Flux is *nice*. I'm back to using KDE now, though, simply for the sheer
amount of tweakability. The only other WM I really make much use of is
E17 -- it's too unstable right now to use it much, but it's gonna be a
killer once they get it finished and start shipping code.
--
Teacher: In French, to say yes you say oui-oui.
[Peter starts laughing]
Peter Griffin: Oh, man, that's hysterical.
[keeps laughing]
Peter Griffin: Hey, what do you say for no, doo-doo?
[laughs]
Peter Griffin: Hey, I'll be right back. I've got to go take a wicked yes.
Tom Shelton
2005-12-21 03:15:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Ellison
Post by Tom Shelton
Post by Linønut
At the risk of feeding the scum-sucking Wintrolls, I found this thread
http://lists.osdl.org/pipermail/desktop_architects/2005-December/000486.html
Post by George Ellison
Post by Tom Shelton
Post by Linønut
[Desktop_architects] Printing dialog and GNOME
Linus Torvalds torvalds at osdl.org
Tue Dec 13 13:44:23 PST 2005
Would that we had such a Window into the technical arguments that go on
at Microsoft.
I personally LOVE fluxbox - though, I have taken a temporary stroll back to
KDE. Just to play with it for a while again - but I plan to move back to
flux soon.
Anyway - I hate Gnome.
Flux is *nice*. I'm back to using KDE now, though, simply for the sheer
amount of tweakability.
Yeah, I'm back on KDE too - I hadn't really played with it for a couple of
versions, so I thought I'd try it out again. I might even update to 3.5,
even if it is still marked ~x86 in portage....
Post by George Ellison
The only other WM I really make much use of is
E17 -- it's too unstable right now to use it much, but it's gonna be a
killer once they get it finished and start shipping code.
I'm tempted to try E17. It does look impressive....
--
Tom Shelton
George Ellison
2005-12-21 03:20:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Linønut
Post by George Ellison
Post by Tom Shelton
Post by Linønut
At the risk of feeding the scum-sucking Wintrolls, I found this thread
http://lists.osdl.org/pipermail/desktop_architects/2005-December/000486.html
Post by George Ellison
Post by Tom Shelton
Post by Linønut
[Desktop_architects] Printing dialog and GNOME
Linus Torvalds torvalds at osdl.org
Tue Dec 13 13:44:23 PST 2005
Would that we had such a Window into the technical arguments that go on
at Microsoft.
I personally LOVE fluxbox - though, I have taken a temporary stroll back to
KDE. Just to play with it for a while again - but I plan to move back to
flux soon.
Anyway - I hate Gnome.
Flux is *nice*. I'm back to using KDE now, though, simply for the sheer
amount of tweakability.
Yeah, I'm back on KDE too - I hadn't really played with it for a couple of
versions, so I thought I'd try it out again. I might even update to 3.5,
even if it is still marked ~x86 in portage....
I've been using 3.5 since beta2 with no problems. The RC's were more or
less a formality.
Post by Linønut
Post by George Ellison
The only other WM I really make much use of is
E17 -- it's too unstable right now to use it much, but it's gonna be a
killer once they get it finished and start shipping code.
I'm tempted to try E17. It does look impressive....
It is. It's also a bitch to compile, and the CVS servers don't always play
nice. Gentoo-Wiki has a really good article on how to get going on it.
--
Mencken and Nathan's Sixteenth Law of The Average American:
Milking a cow is an operation demanding a special talent that
is possessed only by yokels, and no person born in a large city can
never hope to acquire it.
Tom Shelton
2005-12-21 03:27:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Ellison
Post by Tom Shelton
Post by George Ellison
Post by Tom Shelton
Post by Linønut
At the risk of feeding the scum-sucking Wintrolls, I found this thread
http://lists.osdl.org/pipermail/desktop_architects/2005-December/000486.html
Post by George Ellison
Post by Tom Shelton
Post by George Ellison
Post by Tom Shelton
Post by Linønut
[Desktop_architects] Printing dialog and GNOME
Linus Torvalds torvalds at osdl.org
Tue Dec 13 13:44:23 PST 2005
Would that we had such a Window into the technical arguments that go
on at Microsoft.
I personally LOVE fluxbox - though, I have taken a temporary stroll back to
KDE. Just to play with it for a while again - but I plan to move back
to flux soon.
Anyway - I hate Gnome.
Flux is *nice*. I'm back to using KDE now, though, simply for the sheer
amount of tweakability.
Yeah, I'm back on KDE too - I hadn't really played with it for a couple of
versions, so I thought I'd try it out again. I might even update to 3.5,
even if it is still marked ~x86 in portage....
I've been using 3.5 since beta2 with no problems. The RC's were more or
less a formality.
Well that does it! I'm going to update to 3.5 right now...
Post by George Ellison
Post by Tom Shelton
Post by George Ellison
The only other WM I really make much use of is
E17 -- it's too unstable right now to use it much, but it's gonna be a
killer once they get it finished and start shipping code.
I'm tempted to try E17. It does look impressive....
It is. It's also a bitch to compile, and the CVS servers don't always play
nice. Gentoo-Wiki has a really good article on how to get going on it.
Thanks, I'll read up on it and decide if I want to go through the "pain"...
--
Tom Shelton
George Ellison
2005-12-21 03:31:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Linønut
Post by George Ellison
Post by Tom Shelton
Post by George Ellison
Post by Tom Shelton
Post by Linønut
At the risk of feeding the scum-sucking Wintrolls, I found this thread
http://lists.osdl.org/pipermail/desktop_architects/2005-December/000486.html
Post by George Ellison
Post by Tom Shelton
Post by George Ellison
Post by Tom Shelton
Post by Linønut
[Desktop_architects] Printing dialog and GNOME
Linus Torvalds torvalds at osdl.org
Tue Dec 13 13:44:23 PST 2005
Would that we had such a Window into the technical arguments that go
on at Microsoft.
I personally LOVE fluxbox - though, I have taken a temporary stroll back to
KDE. Just to play with it for a while again - but I plan to move back
to flux soon.
Anyway - I hate Gnome.
Flux is *nice*. I'm back to using KDE now, though, simply for the sheer
amount of tweakability.
Yeah, I'm back on KDE too - I hadn't really played with it for a couple of
versions, so I thought I'd try it out again. I might even update to 3.5,
even if it is still marked ~x86 in portage....
I've been using 3.5 since beta2 with no problems. The RC's were more or
less a formality.
Well that does it! I'm going to update to 3.5 right now...
Post by George Ellison
Post by Tom Shelton
Post by George Ellison
The only other WM I really make much use of is
E17 -- it's too unstable right now to use it much, but it's gonna be a
killer once they get it finished and start shipping code.
I'm tempted to try E17. It does look impressive....
It is. It's also a bitch to compile, and the CVS servers don't always play
nice. Gentoo-Wiki has a really good article on how to get going on it.
Thanks, I'll read up on it and decide if I want to go through the "pain"...
If you decide to get it, be sure to pick up e17genmenu from portage. It
wasn't available when the article was written, and it makes the whole
thing a lot more tolerable (like the rest, though, it is buggy). Also, if
you want to give engage a try, load it as a module instead of trying to
run it as a command. If you decide to give it a try, of course.
--
Women who want to be equal to men lack imagination.
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