Discussion:
Microsoft to force new Outlook on Windows 10 PCs
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CrudeSausage
2025-01-10 17:37:00 UTC
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Permalink
<https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/microsoft-to-force-install-new-outlook-on-windows-10-pcs-in-february/>

Microsoft will force install the new Outlook email client on Windows 10
systems starting with next month's security update.

The announcement was made in a new message added to the company's
Microsoft 365 Admin Center, tagged MC976059, and it applies to Microsoft
365 apps users.

As Redmond explains, the new Outlook app will be installed on Windows 10
devices for users who deploy the optional January 28 update and force
installed for all who install the February 11 security update.

The new Outlook client will run alongside the classic Outlook app and
will not modify configurations or user defaults. Microsoft added that
there's no way to block it from being installed on Windows 10 devices;
however, those who don't want it can remove it afterward.

"New Outlook exists as an installed app on the device. For instance, it
can be found in the Apps section of the Start Menu. It does not replace
existing (classic) Outlook or change any configurations / user defaults.
Both (classic) Outlook and New Outlook for Windows can run side by
side," Microsoft says.

"Currently, there isn't a way to block the new Outlook from being
installed - if you prefer not to have new Outlook show up on your
organization's devices, you can remove it after it's installed as part
of the update," the company added in a support document updated on Thursday.

New Outlook user interface
New Outlook user interface (Microsoft)
To remove the new Outlook app package after it's force installed on your
Windows device, you can use the Remove-AppxProvisionedPackage cmdlet
with the PackageName parameter value Microsoft.OutlookForWindows.

This can be done by running the following command from a Windows
PowerShell prompt and adding a new reg value:

PowerShell: Remove-AppxProvisionedPackage -AllUsers -Online -PackageName
(Get-AppxPackage Microsoft.OutlookForWindows).PackageFullName

REG VALUE:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\WindowsUpdate\Orchestrator\UScheduler_Oobe\OutlookUpdate
Next, add a REG_SZ registry setting named BlockedOobeUpdaters with a
value of ["MS_Outlook"]. After removing the Outlook package, Windows
Updates will not reinstall the new Outlook client.

The first preview version of the new Outlook for Windows was introduced
in May 2022. The app was generally available for personal accounts in
September 2023 (via the September 26 Windows fall update and the
Microsoft Store on Windows 11) and for commercial customers in August 2024.
--
CrudeSausage
Gab: @CrudeSausage
Unapologetic paleoconservative
DFS
2025-01-10 17:43:14 UTC
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Post by CrudeSausage
<https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/microsoft-to-force-install-new-outlook-on-windows-10-pcs-in-february/>
Microsoft will force install the new Outlook email client on Windows 10
systems starting with next month's security update.
Another nothing burger.

Apparently you never noticed the deluge of apps a typical Linux distro
forces on you.
CrudeSausage
2025-01-10 18:59:15 UTC
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Post by DFS
Post by CrudeSausage
<https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/microsoft-to-force-
install-new-outlook-on-windows-10-pcs-in-february/>
Microsoft will force install the new Outlook email client on Windows
10 systems starting with next month's security update.
Another nothing burger.
Apparently you never noticed the deluge of apps a typical Linux distro
forces on you.
Once again, you miss the point: your operating system does not care what
you want or don't want because your computer doesn't belong to you.
--
CrudeSausage
Gab: @CrudeSausage
Unapologetic paleoconservative
RonB
2025-01-11 09:30:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by CrudeSausage
Post by DFS
Post by CrudeSausage
<https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/microsoft-to-force-
install-new-outlook-on-windows-10-pcs-in-february/>
Microsoft will force install the new Outlook email client on Windows
10 systems starting with next month's security update.
Another nothing burger.
Apparently you never noticed the deluge of apps a typical Linux distro
forces on you.
Once again, you miss the point: your operating system does not care what
you want or don't want because your computer doesn't belong to you.
What "apps" does Linux "force" on you, DuFuS? I guess you've never heard of
minimal Linux installations?

(Sorry to hijack your post, Crude.)
--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien
CrudeSausage
2025-01-11 12:30:18 UTC
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Permalink
Post by RonB
Post by CrudeSausage
Post by DFS
Post by CrudeSausage
<https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/microsoft-to-force-
install-new-outlook-on-windows-10-pcs-in-february/>
Microsoft will force install the new Outlook email client on Windows
10 systems starting with next month's security update.
Another nothing burger.
Apparently you never noticed the deluge of apps a typical Linux distro
forces on you.
Once again, you miss the point: your operating system does not care what
you want or don't want because your computer doesn't belong to you.
What "apps" does Linux "force" on you, DuFuS? I guess you've never heard of
minimal Linux installations?
(Sorry to hijack your post, Crude.)
Yeah, I don't think that he's experienced minimal installations that
every distribution including Ubuntu allows nowadays. A default install
obviously puts what it believes will be necessary apps for the user.
However, nowadays they are aware that you might prefer Dragon Player
over VLC or Brave over Firefox so they offer you a blank slate to work
with.
--
CrudeSausage
Gab: @CrudeSausage
Unapologetic paleoconservative
rbowman
2025-01-10 20:14:00 UTC
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Permalink
Post by DFS
Post by CrudeSausage
<https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/microsoft-to-force-
install-new-outlook-on-windows-10-pcs-in-february/>
Post by DFS
Post by CrudeSausage
Microsoft will force install the new Outlook email client on Windows 10
systems starting with next month's security update.
Another nothing burger.
Apparently you never noticed the deluge of apps a typical Linux distro
forces on you.
You can pick and choose during the installation. I'll admit I go for the
default and get stuff like LibreOffice that I may never use on my personal
machines but I'm lazy.
Chris Ahlstrom
2025-01-10 21:35:45 UTC
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Permalink
Post by CrudeSausage
Post by DFS
Post by CrudeSausage
<https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/microsoft-to-force-
install-new-outlook-on-windows-10-pcs-in-february/>
Post by DFS
Post by CrudeSausage
Microsoft will force install the new Outlook email client on Windows 10
systems starting with next month's security update.
Another nothing burger.
Apparently you never noticed the deluge of apps a typical Linux distro
forces on you.
You can pick and choose during the installation. I'll admit I go for the
default and get stuff like LibreOffice that I may never use on my personal
machines but I'm lazy.
I like DFS using the word "deluge", when the disk space of this "deluge"
is far smaller than getting the same kinds of apps on Windows.

Big offenders: Microsoft Office and Visual Studio. Windows itself.
--
* joeyh cvs commits his home directory. Aaaaaa
<drow> eeeeeeek
<drow> joeyh: That is simply evil. Period.
RonB
2025-01-11 09:31:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by CrudeSausage
Post by DFS
Post by CrudeSausage
<https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/microsoft-to-force-
install-new-outlook-on-windows-10-pcs-in-february/>
Post by DFS
Post by CrudeSausage
Microsoft will force install the new Outlook email client on Windows 10
systems starting with next month's security update.
Another nothing burger.
Apparently you never noticed the deluge of apps a typical Linux distro
forces on you.
You can pick and choose during the installation. I'll admit I go for the
default and get stuff like LibreOffice that I may never use on my personal
machines but I'm lazy.
Same here. Except when I'm installing Linux on small SSDs (like 8 GBs on my
Wyse Thin Clients).
--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien
Stéphane CARPENTIER
2025-01-11 12:15:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by DFS
Post by CrudeSausage
<https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/microsoft-to-force-install-new-outlook-on-windows-10-pcs-in-february/>
Microsoft will force install the new Outlook email client on Windows 10
systems starting with next month's security update.
Another nothing burger.
Apparently you never noticed the deluge of apps a typical Linux distro
forces on you.
They are not forced, they are installed by default. It's something
different. With Android, they are forced: you can't remove some apps.
With Linux, you can remove and change every default as you want. The
only difficulty will be to change the init process. Switching between
systemd and something else will be, at least, difficult. But everything
else can be changed. Now, you can choose either the distro who let you
install only what you need instead of choosing a distro who install
everything you don't want.
--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2025-01-12 23:20:48 UTC
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Permalink
Post by DFS
Apparently you never noticed the deluge of apps a typical Linux distro
forces on you.
Have you noticed this happening on your Linux installs? Please tell us.

Or is this something else you read in The Guardian?
RonB
2025-01-13 12:45:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by DFS
Apparently you never noticed the deluge of apps a typical Linux distro
forces on you.
Have you noticed this happening on your Linux installs? Please tell us.
Or is this something else you read in The Guardian?
Yeah (to DuFuS), I've never noticed them because they are NOT forced on me.
--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien
DFS
2025-01-14 03:50:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by DFS
Apparently you never noticed the deluge of apps a typical Linux distro
forces on you.
Have you noticed this happening on your Linux installs? Please tell us.
Yes. For years I've installed distros by booting a LiveCD/DVD, trying
it for a little while, and if I liked it enough, installing from the
live desktop (setting it up as a dual-boot). It's been a long time
since I recall being offered individual packages or roles to install -
it usually just forced a lot of junk on you.
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Or is this something else you read in The Guardian?
You need to work on your trolling, fella. 'DFS reads the Guardian' is
silly and ineffective.
Joel
2025-01-10 17:54:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by CrudeSausage
<https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/microsoft-to-force-install-new-outlook-on-windows-10-pcs-in-february/>
Microsoft will force install the new Outlook email client on Windows 10
systems starting with next month's security update.
The announcement was made in a new message added to the company's
Microsoft 365 Admin Center, tagged MC976059, and it applies to Microsoft
365 apps users.
As Redmond explains, the new Outlook app will be installed on Windows 10
devices for users who deploy the optional January 28 update and force
installed for all who install the February 11 security update.
The new Outlook client will run alongside the classic Outlook app and
will not modify configurations or user defaults. Microsoft added that
there's no way to block it from being installed on Windows 10 devices;
however, those who don't want it can remove it afterward.
"New Outlook exists as an installed app on the device. For instance, it
can be found in the Apps section of the Start Menu. It does not replace
existing (classic) Outlook or change any configurations / user defaults.
Both (classic) Outlook and New Outlook for Windows can run side by
side," Microsoft says.
"Currently, there isn't a way to block the new Outlook from being
installed - if you prefer not to have new Outlook show up on your
organization's devices, you can remove it after it's installed as part
of the update," the company added in a support document updated on Thursday.
New Outlook user interface
New Outlook user interface (Microsoft)
To remove the new Outlook app package after it's force installed on your
Windows device, you can use the Remove-AppxProvisionedPackage cmdlet
with the PackageName parameter value Microsoft.OutlookForWindows.
This can be done by running the following command from a Windows
PowerShell: Remove-AppxProvisionedPackage -AllUsers -Online -PackageName
(Get-AppxPackage Microsoft.OutlookForWindows).PackageFullName
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\WindowsUpdate\Orchestrator\UScheduler_Oobe\OutlookUpdate
Next, add a REG_SZ registry setting named BlockedOobeUpdaters with a
value of ["MS_Outlook"]. After removing the Outlook package, Windows
Updates will not reinstall the new Outlook client.
The first preview version of the new Outlook for Windows was introduced
in May 2022. The app was generally available for personal accounts in
September 2023 (via the September 26 Windows fall update and the
Microsoft Store on Windows 11) and for commercial customers in August 2024.
It's a good app, I'm doing well with Thunderbird, since I'm not
running Windows, though.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.
RonB
2025-01-11 09:27:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by CrudeSausage
<https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/microsoft-to-force-install-new-outlook-on-windows-10-pcs-in-february/>
Microsoft will force install the new Outlook email client on Windows 10
systems starting with next month's security update.
The announcement was made in a new message added to the company's
Microsoft 365 Admin Center, tagged MC976059, and it applies to Microsoft
365 apps users.
As Redmond explains, the new Outlook app will be installed on Windows 10
devices for users who deploy the optional January 28 update and force
installed for all who install the February 11 security update.
The new Outlook client will run alongside the classic Outlook app and
will not modify configurations or user defaults. Microsoft added that
there's no way to block it from being installed on Windows 10 devices;
however, those who don't want it can remove it afterward.
"New Outlook exists as an installed app on the device. For instance, it
can be found in the Apps section of the Start Menu. It does not replace
existing (classic) Outlook or change any configurations / user defaults.
Both (classic) Outlook and New Outlook for Windows can run side by
side," Microsoft says.
"Currently, there isn't a way to block the new Outlook from being
installed - if you prefer not to have new Outlook show up on your
organization's devices, you can remove it after it's installed as part
of the update," the company added in a support document updated on Thursday.
New Outlook user interface
New Outlook user interface (Microsoft)
To remove the new Outlook app package after it's force installed on your
Windows device, you can use the Remove-AppxProvisionedPackage cmdlet
with the PackageName parameter value Microsoft.OutlookForWindows.
This can be done by running the following command from a Windows
PowerShell: Remove-AppxProvisionedPackage -AllUsers -Online -PackageName
(Get-AppxPackage Microsoft.OutlookForWindows).PackageFullName
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\WindowsUpdate\Orchestrator\UScheduler_Oobe\OutlookUpdate
Next, add a REG_SZ registry setting named BlockedOobeUpdaters with a
value of ["MS_Outlook"]. After removing the Outlook package, Windows
Updates will not reinstall the new Outlook client.
The first preview version of the new Outlook for Windows was introduced
in May 2022. The app was generally available for personal accounts in
September 2023 (via the September 26 Windows fall update and the
Microsoft Store on Windows 11) and for commercial customers in August 2024.
Even if I used Windows I wouldn't use Outlook.
--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien
Joel
2025-01-11 09:32:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by RonB
Post by CrudeSausage
<https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/microsoft-to-force-install-new-outlook-on-windows-10-pcs-in-february/>
Microsoft will force install the new Outlook email client on Windows 10
systems starting with next month's security update.
The announcement was made in a new message added to the company's
Microsoft 365 Admin Center, tagged MC976059, and it applies to Microsoft
365 apps users.
As Redmond explains, the new Outlook app will be installed on Windows 10
devices for users who deploy the optional January 28 update and force
installed for all who install the February 11 security update.
The new Outlook client will run alongside the classic Outlook app and
will not modify configurations or user defaults. Microsoft added that
there's no way to block it from being installed on Windows 10 devices;
however, those who don't want it can remove it afterward.
"New Outlook exists as an installed app on the device. For instance, it
can be found in the Apps section of the Start Menu. It does not replace
existing (classic) Outlook or change any configurations / user defaults.
Both (classic) Outlook and New Outlook for Windows can run side by
side," Microsoft says.
"Currently, there isn't a way to block the new Outlook from being
installed - if you prefer not to have new Outlook show up on your
organization's devices, you can remove it after it's installed as part
of the update," the company added in a support document updated on Thursday.
New Outlook user interface
New Outlook user interface (Microsoft)
To remove the new Outlook app package after it's force installed on your
Windows device, you can use the Remove-AppxProvisionedPackage cmdlet
with the PackageName parameter value Microsoft.OutlookForWindows.
This can be done by running the following command from a Windows
PowerShell: Remove-AppxProvisionedPackage -AllUsers -Online -PackageName
(Get-AppxPackage Microsoft.OutlookForWindows).PackageFullName
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\WindowsUpdate\Orchestrator\UScheduler_Oobe\OutlookUpdate
Next, add a REG_SZ registry setting named BlockedOobeUpdaters with a
value of ["MS_Outlook"]. After removing the Outlook package, Windows
Updates will not reinstall the new Outlook client.
The first preview version of the new Outlook for Windows was introduced
in May 2022. The app was generally available for personal accounts in
September 2023 (via the September 26 Windows fall update and the
Microsoft Store on Windows 11) and for commercial customers in August 2024.
Even if I used Windows I wouldn't use Outlook.
I would use it under Win11 in another life, where I wasn't supported
by the OSS community.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.
CrudeSausage
2025-01-11 12:38:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Joel
Post by RonB
Post by CrudeSausage
<https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/microsoft-to-force-install-new-outlook-on-windows-10-pcs-in-february/>
Microsoft will force install the new Outlook email client on Windows 10
systems starting with next month's security update.
The announcement was made in a new message added to the company's
Microsoft 365 Admin Center, tagged MC976059, and it applies to Microsoft
365 apps users.
As Redmond explains, the new Outlook app will be installed on Windows 10
devices for users who deploy the optional January 28 update and force
installed for all who install the February 11 security update.
The new Outlook client will run alongside the classic Outlook app and
will not modify configurations or user defaults. Microsoft added that
there's no way to block it from being installed on Windows 10 devices;
however, those who don't want it can remove it afterward.
"New Outlook exists as an installed app on the device. For instance, it
can be found in the Apps section of the Start Menu. It does not replace
existing (classic) Outlook or change any configurations / user defaults.
Both (classic) Outlook and New Outlook for Windows can run side by
side," Microsoft says.
"Currently, there isn't a way to block the new Outlook from being
installed - if you prefer not to have new Outlook show up on your
organization's devices, you can remove it after it's installed as part
of the update," the company added in a support document updated on Thursday.
New Outlook user interface
New Outlook user interface (Microsoft)
To remove the new Outlook app package after it's force installed on your
Windows device, you can use the Remove-AppxProvisionedPackage cmdlet
with the PackageName parameter value Microsoft.OutlookForWindows.
This can be done by running the following command from a Windows
PowerShell: Remove-AppxProvisionedPackage -AllUsers -Online -PackageName
(Get-AppxPackage Microsoft.OutlookForWindows).PackageFullName
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\WindowsUpdate\Orchestrator\UScheduler_Oobe\OutlookUpdate
Next, add a REG_SZ registry setting named BlockedOobeUpdaters with a
value of ["MS_Outlook"]. After removing the Outlook package, Windows
Updates will not reinstall the new Outlook client.
The first preview version of the new Outlook for Windows was introduced
in May 2022. The app was generally available for personal accounts in
September 2023 (via the September 26 Windows fall update and the
Microsoft Store on Windows 11) and for commercial customers in August 2024.
Even if I used Windows I wouldn't use Outlook.
I would use it under Win11 in another life, where I wasn't supported
by the OSS community.
In my case, I won't use it again unless there is an assurance that the
fTPM problem I mentioned weeks ago was fixed. However, I have to admit
that even if I were to install it once more, the reality is that I spend
most of my time cleaning Windows and checking for corruption in the
system files. The damned operating system breaks so often that I find it
necessary to run sfc periodically just to be sure that I won't suddenly
experience a bizarre slowdown or components not working as they should.
--
CrudeSausage
Gab: @CrudeSausage
Unapologetic paleoconservative
CrudeSausage
2025-01-11 12:28:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by RonB
Post by CrudeSausage
<https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/microsoft-to-force-install-new-outlook-on-windows-10-pcs-in-february/>
Microsoft will force install the new Outlook email client on Windows 10
systems starting with next month's security update.
The announcement was made in a new message added to the company's
Microsoft 365 Admin Center, tagged MC976059, and it applies to Microsoft
365 apps users.
As Redmond explains, the new Outlook app will be installed on Windows 10
devices for users who deploy the optional January 28 update and force
installed for all who install the February 11 security update.
The new Outlook client will run alongside the classic Outlook app and
will not modify configurations or user defaults. Microsoft added that
there's no way to block it from being installed on Windows 10 devices;
however, those who don't want it can remove it afterward.
"New Outlook exists as an installed app on the device. For instance, it
can be found in the Apps section of the Start Menu. It does not replace
existing (classic) Outlook or change any configurations / user defaults.
Both (classic) Outlook and New Outlook for Windows can run side by
side," Microsoft says.
"Currently, there isn't a way to block the new Outlook from being
installed - if you prefer not to have new Outlook show up on your
organization's devices, you can remove it after it's installed as part
of the update," the company added in a support document updated on Thursday.
New Outlook user interface
New Outlook user interface (Microsoft)
To remove the new Outlook app package after it's force installed on your
Windows device, you can use the Remove-AppxProvisionedPackage cmdlet
with the PackageName parameter value Microsoft.OutlookForWindows.
This can be done by running the following command from a Windows
PowerShell: Remove-AppxProvisionedPackage -AllUsers -Online -PackageName
(Get-AppxPackage Microsoft.OutlookForWindows).PackageFullName
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\WindowsUpdate\Orchestrator\UScheduler_Oobe\OutlookUpdate
Next, add a REG_SZ registry setting named BlockedOobeUpdaters with a
value of ["MS_Outlook"]. After removing the Outlook package, Windows
Updates will not reinstall the new Outlook client.
The first preview version of the new Outlook for Windows was introduced
in May 2022. The app was generally available for personal accounts in
September 2023 (via the September 26 Windows fall update and the
Microsoft Store on Windows 11) and for commercial customers in August 2024.
Even if I used Windows I wouldn't use Outlook.
If you use a Microsoft account, the new Outlook is light enough to be
fun to use. It's a lot less clunky than the older Outlook application
albeit not as functional. Still, I would rather these people actually
give me a choice as to whether I have the program on my computer or not.
I quite like how I can remove anything and everything from a Linux
installation.
--
CrudeSausage
Gab: @CrudeSausage
Unapologetic paleoconservative
RonB
2025-01-12 08:38:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by CrudeSausage
Post by RonB
Post by CrudeSausage
<https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/microsoft-to-force-install-new-outlook-on-windows-10-pcs-in-february/>
Microsoft will force install the new Outlook email client on Windows 10
systems starting with next month's security update.
The announcement was made in a new message added to the company's
Microsoft 365 Admin Center, tagged MC976059, and it applies to Microsoft
365 apps users.
As Redmond explains, the new Outlook app will be installed on Windows 10
devices for users who deploy the optional January 28 update and force
installed for all who install the February 11 security update.
The new Outlook client will run alongside the classic Outlook app and
will not modify configurations or user defaults. Microsoft added that
there's no way to block it from being installed on Windows 10 devices;
however, those who don't want it can remove it afterward.
"New Outlook exists as an installed app on the device. For instance, it
can be found in the Apps section of the Start Menu. It does not replace
existing (classic) Outlook or change any configurations / user defaults.
Both (classic) Outlook and New Outlook for Windows can run side by
side," Microsoft says.
"Currently, there isn't a way to block the new Outlook from being
installed - if you prefer not to have new Outlook show up on your
organization's devices, you can remove it after it's installed as part
of the update," the company added in a support document updated on Thursday.
New Outlook user interface
New Outlook user interface (Microsoft)
To remove the new Outlook app package after it's force installed on your
Windows device, you can use the Remove-AppxProvisionedPackage cmdlet
with the PackageName parameter value Microsoft.OutlookForWindows.
This can be done by running the following command from a Windows
PowerShell: Remove-AppxProvisionedPackage -AllUsers -Online -PackageName
(Get-AppxPackage Microsoft.OutlookForWindows).PackageFullName
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\WindowsUpdate\Orchestrator\UScheduler_Oobe\OutlookUpdate
Next, add a REG_SZ registry setting named BlockedOobeUpdaters with a
value of ["MS_Outlook"]. After removing the Outlook package, Windows
Updates will not reinstall the new Outlook client.
The first preview version of the new Outlook for Windows was introduced
in May 2022. The app was generally available for personal accounts in
September 2023 (via the September 26 Windows fall update and the
Microsoft Store on Windows 11) and for commercial customers in August 2024.
Even if I used Windows I wouldn't use Outlook.
If you use a Microsoft account, the new Outlook is light enough to be
fun to use. It's a lot less clunky than the older Outlook application
albeit not as functional. Still, I would rather these people actually
give me a choice as to whether I have the program on my computer or not.
I quite like how I can remove anything and everything from a Linux
installation.
Light or not light, I have zero interest in Outlook. I never even used it
when I used Windows.

Speaking of Windows... my son's Windows 10 computer was hosed (probably
because he wouldn't let it update). So we got him an SSD where I was
planning on doing a new install. I thought I was using a Windows 10 USB for
the install, but apparently it was Windows 11 from 2022. At any rate it
installed and updated, but threw an error (can't update).

TPC 2.0 wasn't turned on in the BIOS, which was required to get it past a
certain point. So I turned that on, still wouldn't update. So I finally
found out I had to use one of the options on Microsoft's download page to
update it. It got to about 76% (or so) and the update stopped because the
NVMe's firmware wasn't updated(?). Really? The damned firmware not being
updated on the (obviously) working SSD and Windows 11 wouldn't update? Is
this the kind of crap everyone is going to run into when trying to update to
Windows 11 from Windows 10?

Anyhow I downloaded and installed the firmware for the WD Blue SSD (when did
San-disk buy Western Digital?) and hit the "Refresh" button on the install
page. Hit it again... and again... and again... Zero response. So I had to
start the install again. Of course it stopped — again — with the SSD
firmware issue. I realized ah, crap, I'll have to restart the computer.
(Crappy Windows) before it will see the firmware update. It took forever
again, but the update finished with only one more restart... and about
another fifteen minutes of waiting. But, *finally* the update was
complete... wait a minute, Windows immediately started downloading the next
update... so I guess the loop goes on and on.

Windows 11 updates may be better than than Windows 10 ones, but it's still
total crap compared to Linux.
--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien
CrudeSausage
2025-01-12 14:36:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by RonB
Post by CrudeSausage
Post by RonB
Post by CrudeSausage
<https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/microsoft-to-force-install-new-outlook-on-windows-10-pcs-in-february/>
Microsoft will force install the new Outlook email client on Windows 10
systems starting with next month's security update.
The announcement was made in a new message added to the company's
Microsoft 365 Admin Center, tagged MC976059, and it applies to Microsoft
365 apps users.
As Redmond explains, the new Outlook app will be installed on Windows 10
devices for users who deploy the optional January 28 update and force
installed for all who install the February 11 security update.
The new Outlook client will run alongside the classic Outlook app and
will not modify configurations or user defaults. Microsoft added that
there's no way to block it from being installed on Windows 10 devices;
however, those who don't want it can remove it afterward.
"New Outlook exists as an installed app on the device. For instance, it
can be found in the Apps section of the Start Menu. It does not replace
existing (classic) Outlook or change any configurations / user defaults.
Both (classic) Outlook and New Outlook for Windows can run side by
side," Microsoft says.
"Currently, there isn't a way to block the new Outlook from being
installed - if you prefer not to have new Outlook show up on your
organization's devices, you can remove it after it's installed as part
of the update," the company added in a support document updated on Thursday.
New Outlook user interface
New Outlook user interface (Microsoft)
To remove the new Outlook app package after it's force installed on your
Windows device, you can use the Remove-AppxProvisionedPackage cmdlet
with the PackageName parameter value Microsoft.OutlookForWindows.
This can be done by running the following command from a Windows
PowerShell: Remove-AppxProvisionedPackage -AllUsers -Online -PackageName
(Get-AppxPackage Microsoft.OutlookForWindows).PackageFullName
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\WindowsUpdate\Orchestrator\UScheduler_Oobe\OutlookUpdate
Next, add a REG_SZ registry setting named BlockedOobeUpdaters with a
value of ["MS_Outlook"]. After removing the Outlook package, Windows
Updates will not reinstall the new Outlook client.
The first preview version of the new Outlook for Windows was introduced
in May 2022. The app was generally available for personal accounts in
September 2023 (via the September 26 Windows fall update and the
Microsoft Store on Windows 11) and for commercial customers in August 2024.
Even if I used Windows I wouldn't use Outlook.
If you use a Microsoft account, the new Outlook is light enough to be
fun to use. It's a lot less clunky than the older Outlook application
albeit not as functional. Still, I would rather these people actually
give me a choice as to whether I have the program on my computer or not.
I quite like how I can remove anything and everything from a Linux
installation.
Light or not light, I have zero interest in Outlook. I never even used it
when I used Windows.
Speaking of Windows... my son's Windows 10 computer was hosed (probably
because he wouldn't let it update). So we got him an SSD where I was
planning on doing a new install. I thought I was using a Windows 10 USB for
the install, but apparently it was Windows 11 from 2022. At any rate it
installed and updated, but threw an error (can't update).
TPC 2.0 wasn't turned on in the BIOS, which was required to get it past a
certain point. So I turned that on, still wouldn't update. So I finally
found out I had to use one of the options on Microsoft's download page to
update it. It got to about 76% (or so) and the update stopped because the
NVMe's firmware wasn't updated(?). Really? The damned firmware not being
updated on the (obviously) working SSD and Windows 11 wouldn't update? Is
this the kind of crap everyone is going to run into when trying to update to
Windows 11 from Windows 10?
If the firmware were a problem, the computer should not have even
allowed the SSD to be detected. Either way, you can use a Linux live
environment to either use fwupd or the GUI alternative and update the
firmware before trying again. I notice fwupd is much better than
Microsoft or ASUS's own tools when it comes to updating secure boot.
Post by RonB
Anyhow I downloaded and installed the firmware for the WD Blue SSD (when did
San-disk buy Western Digital?) and hit the "Refresh" button on the install
page. Hit it again... and again... and again... Zero response. So I had to
start the install again. Of course it stopped — again — with the SSD
firmware issue. I realized ah, crap, I'll have to restart the computer.
(Crappy Windows) before it will see the firmware update. It took forever
again, but the update finished with only one more restart... and about
another fifteen minutes of waiting. But, *finally* the update was
complete... wait a minute, Windows immediately started downloading the next
update... so I guess the loop goes on and on.
Windows 11 updates may be better than than Windows 10 ones, but it's still
total crap compared to Linux.
Well, possibly. However, whenever I update this Fedora installation, it
refuses to restart, I have to force it to shut down and then have to
rebuild the NVIDIA driver. It's annoying, but I can live with what is
essentially a daily frustration.
--
CrudeSausage
Gab: @CrudeSausage
Unapologetic paleoconservative
RonB
2025-01-13 12:40:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by CrudeSausage
Post by RonB
Post by CrudeSausage
Post by RonB
Post by CrudeSausage
<https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/microsoft-to-force-install-new-outlook-on-windows-10-pcs-in-february/>
Microsoft will force install the new Outlook email client on Windows 10
systems starting with next month's security update.
The announcement was made in a new message added to the company's
Microsoft 365 Admin Center, tagged MC976059, and it applies to Microsoft
365 apps users.
As Redmond explains, the new Outlook app will be installed on Windows 10
devices for users who deploy the optional January 28 update and force
installed for all who install the February 11 security update.
The new Outlook client will run alongside the classic Outlook app and
will not modify configurations or user defaults. Microsoft added that
there's no way to block it from being installed on Windows 10 devices;
however, those who don't want it can remove it afterward.
"New Outlook exists as an installed app on the device. For instance, it
can be found in the Apps section of the Start Menu. It does not replace
existing (classic) Outlook or change any configurations / user defaults.
Both (classic) Outlook and New Outlook for Windows can run side by
side," Microsoft says.
"Currently, there isn't a way to block the new Outlook from being
installed - if you prefer not to have new Outlook show up on your
organization's devices, you can remove it after it's installed as part
of the update," the company added in a support document updated on Thursday.
New Outlook user interface
New Outlook user interface (Microsoft)
To remove the new Outlook app package after it's force installed on your
Windows device, you can use the Remove-AppxProvisionedPackage cmdlet
with the PackageName parameter value Microsoft.OutlookForWindows.
This can be done by running the following command from a Windows
PowerShell: Remove-AppxProvisionedPackage -AllUsers -Online -PackageName
(Get-AppxPackage Microsoft.OutlookForWindows).PackageFullName
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\WindowsUpdate\Orchestrator\UScheduler_Oobe\OutlookUpdate
Next, add a REG_SZ registry setting named BlockedOobeUpdaters with a
value of ["MS_Outlook"]. After removing the Outlook package, Windows
Updates will not reinstall the new Outlook client.
The first preview version of the new Outlook for Windows was introduced
in May 2022. The app was generally available for personal accounts in
September 2023 (via the September 26 Windows fall update and the
Microsoft Store on Windows 11) and for commercial customers in August 2024.
Even if I used Windows I wouldn't use Outlook.
If you use a Microsoft account, the new Outlook is light enough to be
fun to use. It's a lot less clunky than the older Outlook application
albeit not as functional. Still, I would rather these people actually
give me a choice as to whether I have the program on my computer or not.
I quite like how I can remove anything and everything from a Linux
installation.
Light or not light, I have zero interest in Outlook. I never even used it
when I used Windows.
Speaking of Windows... my son's Windows 10 computer was hosed (probably
because he wouldn't let it update). So we got him an SSD where I was
planning on doing a new install. I thought I was using a Windows 10 USB for
the install, but apparently it was Windows 11 from 2022. At any rate it
installed and updated, but threw an error (can't update).
TPC 2.0 wasn't turned on in the BIOS, which was required to get it past a
certain point. So I turned that on, still wouldn't update. So I finally
found out I had to use one of the options on Microsoft's download page to
update it. It got to about 76% (or so) and the update stopped because the
NVMe's firmware wasn't updated(?). Really? The damned firmware not being
updated on the (obviously) working SSD and Windows 11 wouldn't update? Is
this the kind of crap everyone is going to run into when trying to update to
Windows 11 from Windows 10?
If the firmware were a problem, the computer should not have even
allowed the SSD to be detected. Either way, you can use a Linux live
environment to either use fwupd or the GUI alternative and update the
firmware before trying again. I notice fwupd is much better than
Microsoft or ASUS's own tools when it comes to updating secure boot.
I totally agree. And why doesn't Windows check all the requirements BEFORE it
spends an hour or an hour and a half "installing." How stupid are these
people? I had no idea TPM was shut in the BIOS. I forgot to mention that,
since we couldn't fix the issues with Windows 10 on the hard drive, I had to
buy another license for Windows 11, so now the the same computer has two
licenses. I just found out that a different son has been using an
"unactivated" Windows install since he replaced his motherboard. Fortunately
you can pick up these license keys on eBay for about $5 to $10 (and I don't
feel bad at all about it). I think it's stupid to have to re-license a
computer that's already licensed.

Just more reasons to hate hobbyware Windows.
Post by CrudeSausage
Post by RonB
Anyhow I downloaded and installed the firmware for the WD Blue SSD (when did
San-disk buy Western Digital?) and hit the "Refresh" button on the install
page. Hit it again... and again... and again... Zero response. So I had to
start the install again. Of course it stopped — again — with the SSD
firmware issue. I realized ah, crap, I'll have to restart the computer.
(Crappy Windows) before it will see the firmware update. It took forever
again, but the update finished with only one more restart... and about
another fifteen minutes of waiting. But, *finally* the update was
complete... wait a minute, Windows immediately started downloading the next
update... so I guess the loop goes on and on.
Windows 11 updates may be better than than Windows 10 ones, but it's still
total crap compared to Linux.
Well, possibly. However, whenever I update this Fedora installation, it
refuses to restart, I have to force it to shut down and then have to
rebuild the NVIDIA driver. It's annoying, but I can live with what is
essentially a daily frustration.
I haven't had these kinds of problems with Fedora (or Linux Mint) but I have
simple machines — as mentioned many times. If Fedora gives you that trouble
every time you update it, I would only update it every other week or so.
Maybe every third week.
--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien
CrudeSausage
2025-01-13 15:05:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by RonB
Post by CrudeSausage
Post by RonB
Post by CrudeSausage
Post by RonB
Post by CrudeSausage
<https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/microsoft-to-force-install-new-outlook-on-windows-10-pcs-in-february/>
Microsoft will force install the new Outlook email client on Windows 10
systems starting with next month's security update.
The announcement was made in a new message added to the company's
Microsoft 365 Admin Center, tagged MC976059, and it applies to Microsoft
365 apps users.
As Redmond explains, the new Outlook app will be installed on Windows 10
devices for users who deploy the optional January 28 update and force
installed for all who install the February 11 security update.
The new Outlook client will run alongside the classic Outlook app and
will not modify configurations or user defaults. Microsoft added that
there's no way to block it from being installed on Windows 10 devices;
however, those who don't want it can remove it afterward.
"New Outlook exists as an installed app on the device. For instance, it
can be found in the Apps section of the Start Menu. It does not replace
existing (classic) Outlook or change any configurations / user defaults.
Both (classic) Outlook and New Outlook for Windows can run side by
side," Microsoft says.
"Currently, there isn't a way to block the new Outlook from being
installed - if you prefer not to have new Outlook show up on your
organization's devices, you can remove it after it's installed as part
of the update," the company added in a support document updated on Thursday.
New Outlook user interface
New Outlook user interface (Microsoft)
To remove the new Outlook app package after it's force installed on your
Windows device, you can use the Remove-AppxProvisionedPackage cmdlet
with the PackageName parameter value Microsoft.OutlookForWindows.
This can be done by running the following command from a Windows
PowerShell: Remove-AppxProvisionedPackage -AllUsers -Online -PackageName
(Get-AppxPackage Microsoft.OutlookForWindows).PackageFullName
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\WindowsUpdate\Orchestrator\UScheduler_Oobe\OutlookUpdate
Next, add a REG_SZ registry setting named BlockedOobeUpdaters with a
value of ["MS_Outlook"]. After removing the Outlook package, Windows
Updates will not reinstall the new Outlook client.
The first preview version of the new Outlook for Windows was introduced
in May 2022. The app was generally available for personal accounts in
September 2023 (via the September 26 Windows fall update and the
Microsoft Store on Windows 11) and for commercial customers in August 2024.
Even if I used Windows I wouldn't use Outlook.
If you use a Microsoft account, the new Outlook is light enough to be
fun to use. It's a lot less clunky than the older Outlook application
albeit not as functional. Still, I would rather these people actually
give me a choice as to whether I have the program on my computer or not.
I quite like how I can remove anything and everything from a Linux
installation.
Light or not light, I have zero interest in Outlook. I never even used it
when I used Windows.
Speaking of Windows... my son's Windows 10 computer was hosed (probably
because he wouldn't let it update). So we got him an SSD where I was
planning on doing a new install. I thought I was using a Windows 10 USB for
the install, but apparently it was Windows 11 from 2022. At any rate it
installed and updated, but threw an error (can't update).
TPC 2.0 wasn't turned on in the BIOS, which was required to get it past a
certain point. So I turned that on, still wouldn't update. So I finally
found out I had to use one of the options on Microsoft's download page to
update it. It got to about 76% (or so) and the update stopped because the
NVMe's firmware wasn't updated(?). Really? The damned firmware not being
updated on the (obviously) working SSD and Windows 11 wouldn't update? Is
this the kind of crap everyone is going to run into when trying to update to
Windows 11 from Windows 10?
If the firmware were a problem, the computer should not have even
allowed the SSD to be detected. Either way, you can use a Linux live
environment to either use fwupd or the GUI alternative and update the
firmware before trying again. I notice fwupd is much better than
Microsoft or ASUS's own tools when it comes to updating secure boot.
I totally agree. And why doesn't Windows check all the requirements BEFORE it
spends an hour or an hour and a half "installing." How stupid are these
people? I had no idea TPM was shut in the BIOS. I forgot to mention that,
since we couldn't fix the issues with Windows 10 on the hard drive, I had to
buy another license for Windows 11, so now the the same computer has two
licenses. I just found out that a different son has been using an
"unactivated" Windows install since he replaced his motherboard. Fortunately
you can pick up these license keys on eBay for about $5 to $10 (and I don't
feel bad at all about it). I think it's stupid to have to re-license a
computer that's already licensed.
Just more reasons to hate hobbyware Windows.
I actually lose the Windows 10 license that was attached to this
computer when they replaced the motherboard, but I don't really care. I
have a 10 Pro license I can use whenever I want if I really insist on
having Windows on the machine. However, I like Fedora, a lot. Everything
but the fingerprint reader works as it should and I can even play my
games (I'm not even using compatibility at this point, I'm focusing on
the ones which have a native Linux edition). I don't have access to a
lot of my movies anymore, but that's fine: I have them on the Xbox
Series S and they're still attached to my account anyway. If Microsoft
one day wakes up and smells the coffee and starts offering them on the
web like everyone else, I'll have access to them on Linux too. It is
just refreshing after three years to know that I _can_ escape the
dreaded stuttering I was having in Windows. Nobody knew what it was and
nobody would admit to it happening, until someone pin-pointed the
problem and forced AMD to admit to it. Meanwhile, it still isn't fixed
on laptops and you are forced to use the machine knowing that
occasionally, the sound, mouse cursor and video will chop for 2-3
seconds at a time. The mere fact that they won't fix a _known_ problem
is evidence that they don't deserve the support.
Post by RonB
Post by CrudeSausage
Post by RonB
Anyhow I downloaded and installed the firmware for the WD Blue SSD (when did
San-disk buy Western Digital?) and hit the "Refresh" button on the install
page. Hit it again... and again... and again... Zero response. So I had to
start the install again. Of course it stopped — again — with the SSD
firmware issue. I realized ah, crap, I'll have to restart the computer.
(Crappy Windows) before it will see the firmware update. It took forever
again, but the update finished with only one more restart... and about
another fifteen minutes of waiting. But, *finally* the update was
complete... wait a minute, Windows immediately started downloading the next
update... so I guess the loop goes on and on.
Windows 11 updates may be better than than Windows 10 ones, but it's still
total crap compared to Linux.
Well, possibly. However, whenever I update this Fedora installation, it
refuses to restart, I have to force it to shut down and then have to
rebuild the NVIDIA driver. It's annoying, but I can live with what is
essentially a daily frustration.
I haven't had these kinds of problems with Fedora (or Linux Mint) but I have
simple machines — as mentioned many times. If Fedora gives you that trouble
every time you update it, I would only update it every other week or so.
Maybe every third week.
I think the problem was caused by my switching over to S3 suspend, at
some point. Linux can manage through it, but I believe that the settings
ended up being screwed up, even after I reverted back to S0. I took the
opportunity to try OpenMandriva yesterday (it's fine), before
reinstalling Fedora. It seems to be working right now.
--
CrudeSausage
Gab: @CrudeSausage
Unapologetic paleoconservative
rbowman
2025-01-11 20:11:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by RonB
Even if I used Windows I wouldn't use Outlook.
I use the Outlook web interface for the company email when at home. At
work I can directly access the mail server with Thunderbird.
CrudeSausage
2025-01-11 22:28:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by rbowman
Post by RonB
Even if I used Windows I wouldn't use Outlook.
I use the Outlook web interface for the company email when at home. At
work I can directly access the mail server with Thunderbird.
I made the mistake of setting up my work e-mail in Thunderbird in the
past. By accident, you'll end up sending more than one message with the
wrong e-mail adress.
--
CrudeSausage
Gab: @CrudeSausage
Unapologetic paleoconservative
RonB
2025-01-12 08:40:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by CrudeSausage
Post by rbowman
Post by RonB
Even if I used Windows I wouldn't use Outlook.
I use the Outlook web interface for the company email when at home. At
work I can directly access the mail server with Thunderbird.
I made the mistake of setting up my work e-mail in Thunderbird in the
past. By accident, you'll end up sending more than one message with the
wrong e-mail adress.
I can understand that. That's why I quit using Thunderbird for Newsgroup
posts.
--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien
CrudeSausage
2025-01-12 14:55:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by RonB
Post by CrudeSausage
Post by rbowman
Post by RonB
Even if I used Windows I wouldn't use Outlook.
I use the Outlook web interface for the company email when at home. At
work I can directly access the mail server with Thunderbird.
I made the mistake of setting up my work e-mail in Thunderbird in the
past. By accident, you'll end up sending more than one message with the
wrong e-mail adress.
I can understand that. That's why I quit using Thunderbird for Newsgroup
posts.
Yet, it is still the best newsgroup client because of its excellent
filtering features. I can filter out Larry Pietraskiewicz without any
effort as a result of it.
--
CrudeSausage
Gab: @CrudeSausage
Unapologetic paleoconservative
RonB
2025-01-13 12:44:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by CrudeSausage
Post by RonB
Post by CrudeSausage
Post by rbowman
Post by RonB
Even if I used Windows I wouldn't use Outlook.
I use the Outlook web interface for the company email when at home. At
work I can directly access the mail server with Thunderbird.
I made the mistake of setting up my work e-mail in Thunderbird in the
past. By accident, you'll end up sending more than one message with the
wrong e-mail adress.
I can understand that. That's why I quit using Thunderbird for Newsgroup
posts.
Yet, it is still the best newsgroup client because of its excellent
filtering features. I can filter out Larry Pietraskiewicz without any
effort as a result of it.
I do that in slrn as well. At least I don't think I see him (or his nyms). I
only see about ten posters, total, here. And no crossposts at all.
--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien
RonB
2025-01-12 08:39:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by rbowman
Post by RonB
Even if I used Windows I wouldn't use Outlook.
I use the Outlook web interface for the company email when at home. At
work I can directly access the mail server with Thunderbird.
I don't have to worry about company email. I guess I did use Outlook at a
few jobs (on company computers).
--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2025-01-12 23:23:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by CrudeSausage
To remove the new Outlook app package after it's force installed on your
Windows device, you can use the Remove-AppxProvisionedPackage cmdlet
with the PackageName parameter value Microsoft.OutlookForWindows.
This can be done by running the following command from a Windows
[Blah blah hoyvin-glayvin blah blah]
This is why they say, Windows is a great OS -- if your time is worth
nothing.
MikeS
2025-01-13 21:25:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by CrudeSausage
To remove the new Outlook app package after it's force installed on your
Windows device, you can use the Remove-AppxProvisionedPackage cmdlet
with the PackageName parameter value Microsoft.OutlookForWindows.
This can be done by running the following command from a Windows
[Blah blah hoyvin-glayvin blah blah]
This is why they say, Windows is a great OS -- if your time is worth
nothing.
So which OS do you choose to expend your valuable time on?
Joel
2025-01-13 21:32:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by MikeS
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by CrudeSausage
To remove the new Outlook app package after it's force installed on your
Windows device, you can use the Remove-AppxProvisionedPackage cmdlet
with the PackageName parameter value Microsoft.OutlookForWindows.
This can be done by running the following command from a Windows
[Blah blah hoyvin-glayvin blah blah]
This is why they say, Windows is a great OS -- if your time is worth
nothing.
So which OS do you choose to expend your valuable time on?
Linux is the only option worth pursuing. macOS is weird and
expensive, Windows is bloatware beyond belief.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.
CrudeSausage
2025-01-13 22:44:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Joel
Post by MikeS
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by CrudeSausage
To remove the new Outlook app package after it's force installed on your
Windows device, you can use the Remove-AppxProvisionedPackage cmdlet
with the PackageName parameter value Microsoft.OutlookForWindows.
This can be done by running the following command from a Windows
[Blah blah hoyvin-glayvin blah blah]
This is why they say, Windows is a great OS -- if your time is worth
nothing.
So which OS do you choose to expend your valuable time on?
Linux is the only option worth pursuing. macOS is weird and
expensive, Windows is bloatware beyond belief.
There's not much to pursue in MacOS. It works as it should and it is a
fairly pleasant experience. However, I would agree that it's expensive.
After a while, you'll need tools to do additional things and on MacOS,
you're going to be paying money in most cases. Open-source is available
for it too, mind you.
--
CrudeSausage
Gab: @CrudeSausage
Unapologetic paleoconservative
Joel
2025-01-13 22:54:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by CrudeSausage
Post by Joel
Post by MikeS
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Windows is a great OS -- if your time is worth
nothing.
So which OS do you choose to expend your valuable time on?
Linux is the only option worth pursuing. macOS is weird and
expensive, Windows is bloatware beyond belief.
There's not much to pursue in MacOS. It works as it should and it is a
fairly pleasant experience. However, I would agree that it's expensive.
After a while, you'll need tools to do additional things and on MacOS,
you're going to be paying money in most cases. Open-source is available
for it too, mind you.
I just dislike Windows and macOS, it might be my own opinion but it's
right for me.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.
CrudeSausage
2025-01-13 23:10:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Joel
Post by CrudeSausage
Post by Joel
Post by MikeS
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Windows is a great OS -- if your time is worth
nothing.
So which OS do you choose to expend your valuable time on?
Linux is the only option worth pursuing. macOS is weird and
expensive, Windows is bloatware beyond belief.
There's not much to pursue in MacOS. It works as it should and it is a
fairly pleasant experience. However, I would agree that it's expensive.
After a while, you'll need tools to do additional things and on MacOS,
you're going to be paying money in most cases. Open-source is available
for it too, mind you.
I just dislike Windows and macOS, it might be my own opinion but it's
right for me.
MacOS machines have a shelf life of about seven years before Apple
decides that your machine is no longer worth supporting with updates. As
we've seen, Windows machines get about seven, so it's a fair amount of
time. However, Linux has them both beat with unlimited support no matter
how pathetic the machine you're running it on is.
--
CrudeSausage
Gab: @CrudeSausage
Unapologetic paleoconservative
Joel
2025-01-13 23:25:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by CrudeSausage
Post by Joel
Post by CrudeSausage
Post by Joel
Post by MikeS
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Windows is a great OS -- if your time is worth
nothing.
So which OS do you choose to expend your valuable time on?
Linux is the only option worth pursuing. macOS is weird and
expensive, Windows is bloatware beyond belief.
There's not much to pursue in MacOS. It works as it should and it is a
fairly pleasant experience. However, I would agree that it's expensive.
After a while, you'll need tools to do additional things and on MacOS,
you're going to be paying money in most cases. Open-source is available
for it too, mind you.
I just dislike Windows and macOS, it might be my own opinion but it's
right for me.
MacOS machines have a shelf life of about seven years before Apple
decides that your machine is no longer worth supporting with updates. As
we've seen, Windows machines get about seven, so it's a fair amount of
time. However, Linux has them both beat with unlimited support no matter
how pathetic the machine you're running it on is.
My machine is an interesting example - if I'd stayed with Win10, it'd
be slammin', but then support would end relatively early in its life.
So upgrade to 11, great, until the bloat overtakes it, as in my view
it already began to with 23H2. Linux is the only way to solve this
dilemma.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.
Hank Rogers
2025-01-13 23:52:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Joel
Post by CrudeSausage
Post by Joel
Post by CrudeSausage
Post by Joel
Post by MikeS
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Windows is a great OS -- if your time is worth
nothing.
So which OS do you choose to expend your valuable time on?
Linux is the only option worth pursuing. macOS is weird and
expensive, Windows is bloatware beyond belief.
There's not much to pursue in MacOS. It works as it should and it is a
fairly pleasant experience. However, I would agree that it's expensive.
After a while, you'll need tools to do additional things and on MacOS,
you're going to be paying money in most cases. Open-source is available
for it too, mind you.
I just dislike Windows and macOS, it might be my own opinion but it's
right for me.
MacOS machines have a shelf life of about seven years before Apple
decides that your machine is no longer worth supporting with updates. As
we've seen, Windows machines get about seven, so it's a fair amount of
time. However, Linux has them both beat with unlimited support no matter
how pathetic the machine you're running it on is.
My machine is an interesting example - if I'd stayed with Win10, it'd
be slammin', but then support would end relatively early in its life.
So upgrade to 11, great, until the bloat overtakes it, as in my view
it already began to with 23H2. Linux is the only way to solve this
dilemma.
Indeed, linux is the only way to salvation.
vallor
2025-01-15 00:30:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Hank Rogers
Post by Joel
Post by CrudeSausage
Post by Joel
Post by CrudeSausage
Post by Joel
Post by MikeS
Windows is a great OS -- if your time is worth nothing.
So which OS do you choose to expend your valuable time on?
Linux is the only option worth pursuing. macOS is weird and
expensive, Windows is bloatware beyond belief.
There's not much to pursue in MacOS. It works as it should and it is
a fairly pleasant experience. However, I would agree that it's
expensive.
After a while, you'll need tools to do additional things and on
MacOS, you're going to be paying money in most cases. Open-source is
available for it too, mind you.
I just dislike Windows and macOS, it might be my own opinion but it's
right for me.
MacOS machines have a shelf life of about seven years before Apple
decides that your machine is no longer worth supporting with updates.
As we've seen, Windows machines get about seven, so it's a fair amount
of time. However, Linux has them both beat with unlimited support no
matter how pathetic the machine you're running it on is.
My machine is an interesting example - if I'd stayed with Win10, it'd
be slammin', but then support would end relatively early in its life.
So upgrade to 11, great, until the bloat overtakes it, as in my view it
already began to with 23H2. Linux is the only way to solve this
dilemma.
Indeed, linux is the only way to salvation.
I'm glad you see the light, Brother Hank!

https://cultnix.org/

(_Cult of Unix_ home page -- there's nothing there but
a title with an animated gif, perhaps I should add some
epistles? ;) )

ObWindows:

Just navigated the backup mess in Windows 11 -- looks like
one can set up periodic traditional backups in the control panel,
but there's no options in the separate "cloud backup" tool
except Microsoft's thing (Onedrive?).

ObLinux:

I also have to figure out why the virt didn't see any
network shares, which would be the Samba instances on
the local workstation and on my Synology Diskstation...

And BTW, regarding Windows: I'm glad they've kept the
control panel from Windows 7.
--
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
OS: Linux 6.13.0-rc7 Release: Mint 21.3 Mem: 258G
"The young know the rules, the old know the exceptions."
Hank Rogers
2025-01-15 02:05:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by vallor
Post by Hank Rogers
Post by Joel
Post by CrudeSausage
Post by Joel
Post by CrudeSausage
Post by Joel
Post by MikeS
Windows is a great OS -- if your time is worth nothing.
So which OS do you choose to expend your valuable time on?
Linux is the only option worth pursuing. macOS is weird and
expensive, Windows is bloatware beyond belief.
There's not much to pursue in MacOS. It works as it should and it is
a fairly pleasant experience. However, I would agree that it's
expensive.
After a while, you'll need tools to do additional things and on
MacOS, you're going to be paying money in most cases. Open-source is
available for it too, mind you.
I just dislike Windows and macOS, it might be my own opinion but it's
right for me.
MacOS machines have a shelf life of about seven years before Apple
decides that your machine is no longer worth supporting with updates.
As we've seen, Windows machines get about seven, so it's a fair amount
of time. However, Linux has them both beat with unlimited support no
matter how pathetic the machine you're running it on is.
My machine is an interesting example - if I'd stayed with Win10, it'd
be slammin', but then support would end relatively early in its life.
So upgrade to 11, great, until the bloat overtakes it, as in my view it
already began to with 23H2. Linux is the only way to solve this
dilemma.
Indeed, linux is the only way to salvation.
I'm glad you see the light, Brother Hank!
https://cultnix.org/
(_Cult of Unix_ home page -- there's nothing there but
a title with an animated gif, perhaps I should add some
epistles? ;) )
Just navigated the backup mess in Windows 11 --
I said the hell with windows backup long long ago. Even if it works
perfectly What are the chances they'll change it? And once a month,
updates can easily dork it. Microsoft constantly fiddles with
everything, even if it's working perfectly. It's just what they do.

I think people are better off to get some type of imaging software,
written by people that are experts and specialize in that. I use
macrium reflect, but there are several others just as good or better and
most have a free version. Backup software is too important to trust
microsoft.
Paul
2025-01-15 08:16:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by vallor
Post by Hank Rogers
Post by Joel
Post by CrudeSausage
Post by Joel
Post by CrudeSausage
Post by MikeS
Windows is a great OS -- if your time is worth nothing.
So which OS do you choose to expend your valuable time on?
Linux is the only option worth pursuing.  macOS is weird and
expensive, Windows is bloatware beyond belief.
There's not much to pursue in MacOS. It works as it should and it is
a fairly pleasant experience. However, I would agree that it's
expensive.
After a while, you'll need tools to do additional things and on
MacOS, you're going to be paying money in most cases. Open-source is
available for it too, mind you.
I just dislike Windows and macOS, it might be my own opinion but it's
right for me.
MacOS machines have a shelf life of about seven years before Apple
decides that your machine is no longer worth supporting with updates.
As we've seen, Windows machines get about seven, so it's a fair amount
of time. However, Linux has them both beat with unlimited support no
matter how pathetic the machine you're running it on is.
My machine is an interesting example - if I'd stayed with Win10, it'd
be slammin', but then support would end relatively early in its life.
So upgrade to 11, great, until the bloat overtakes it, as in my view it
already began to with 23H2.  Linux is the only way to solve this
dilemma.
Indeed, linux is the only way to salvation.
I'm glad you see the light, Brother Hank!
https://cultnix.org/
(_Cult of Unix_ home page -- there's nothing there but
a title with an animated gif, perhaps I should add some
epistles? ;)   )
Just navigated the backup mess in Windows 11 --
I said the hell with windows backup long long ago. Even if it works perfectly What are the chances they'll change it? And once a month, updates can easily dork it. Microsoft constantly fiddles with everything, even if it's working perfectly. It's just what they do.
I think people are better off to get some type of imaging software, written by people that are experts and specialize in that.  I use macrium reflect, but there are several others just as good or better and most have a free version. Backup software is too important to trust microsoft.
On the Windows Backup, the backup seems to work better than the restore.

The Macrium Reflect Free is quite a bit better.

Paul
vallor
2025-01-15 09:02:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Hank Rogers
Post by vallor
Post by Hank Rogers
Post by Joel
Post by CrudeSausage
Post by Joel
Post by CrudeSausage
Post by Joel
Post by MikeS
Windows is a great OS -- if your time is worth nothing.
So which OS do you choose to expend your valuable time on?
Linux is the only option worth pursuing. macOS is weird and
expensive, Windows is bloatware beyond belief.
There's not much to pursue in MacOS. It works as it should and it is
a fairly pleasant experience. However, I would agree that it's
expensive.
After a while, you'll need tools to do additional things and on
MacOS, you're going to be paying money in most cases. Open-source is
available for it too, mind you.
I just dislike Windows and macOS, it might be my own opinion but it's
right for me.
MacOS machines have a shelf life of about seven years before Apple
decides that your machine is no longer worth supporting with updates.
As we've seen, Windows machines get about seven, so it's a fair amount
of time. However, Linux has them both beat with unlimited support no
matter how pathetic the machine you're running it on is.
My machine is an interesting example - if I'd stayed with Win10, it'd
be slammin', but then support would end relatively early in its life.
So upgrade to 11, great, until the bloat overtakes it, as in my view it
already began to with 23H2. Linux is the only way to solve this
dilemma.
Indeed, linux is the only way to salvation.
I'm glad you see the light, Brother Hank!
https://cultnix.org/
(_Cult of Unix_ home page -- there's nothing there but
a title with an animated gif, perhaps I should add some
epistles? ;) )
Just navigated the backup mess in Windows 11 --
I said the hell with windows backup long long ago. Even if it works
perfectly What are the chances they'll change it? And once a month,
updates can easily dork it. Microsoft constantly fiddles with
everything, even if it's working perfectly. It's just what they do.
I think people are better off to get some type of imaging software,
written by people that are experts and specialize in that. I use
macrium reflect, but there are several others just as good or better and
most have a free version. Backup software is too important to trust
microsoft.
Ordinarily I'd agree with you, but it's just a virtual host for
testing things, and maybe building some Windows software -- anything
of import goes on a network share, so if the virt goes Tango Uniform,
I'll still have the data. Can't really test Windows very well
without using their backup.

I got backups working with an "E:" drive backed by an
iSCSI initiator, then figured out how to set the backups
to use the Samba share provided by a Synology Diskstation.

As I wrote under separate cover: On Windows 11, the
network login for the control-panel-style backups has
to be prefixed with the workgroup name, e.g. "WORKGROUP\username".

Also, h/t to Paul for his post last week(?) about how to remove
BitLocker from a partition...there doesn't seem to be a way to
do it from the GUI, nor would Windows 11 let me set up a
partition without BL.

(In PowerShell, I ran: manage-bde -off E: -- after that, I could
get at the NTFS filesystem in the iSCSI partition in Linux.)
--
-v
...w¡ñ§±¤ñ
2025-01-15 18:10:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Hank Rogers
Post by vallor
Post by Hank Rogers
Post by Joel
Post by CrudeSausage
Post by Joel
Post by CrudeSausage
Post by MikeS
Windows is a great OS -- if your time is worth nothing.
So which OS do you choose to expend your valuable time on?
Linux is the only option worth pursuing.  macOS is weird and
expensive, Windows is bloatware beyond belief.
There's not much to pursue in MacOS. It works as it should and it is
a fairly pleasant experience. However, I would agree that it's
expensive.
After a while, you'll need tools to do additional things and on
MacOS, you're going to be paying money in most cases. Open-source is
available for it too, mind you.
I just dislike Windows and macOS, it might be my own opinion but it's
right for me.
MacOS machines have a shelf life of about seven years before Apple
decides that your machine is no longer worth supporting with updates.
As we've seen, Windows machines get about seven, so it's a fair amount
of time. However, Linux has them both beat with unlimited support no
matter how pathetic the machine you're running it on is.
My machine is an interesting example - if I'd stayed with Win10, it'd
be slammin', but then support would end relatively early in its life.
So upgrade to 11, great, until the bloat overtakes it, as in my view it
already began to with 23H2.  Linux is the only way to solve this
dilemma.
Indeed, linux is the only way to salvation.
I'm glad you see the light, Brother Hank!
https://cultnix.org/
(_Cult of Unix_ home page -- there's nothing there but
a title with an animated gif, perhaps I should add some
epistles? ;)   )
Just navigated the backup mess in Windows 11 --
I said the hell with windows backup long long ago. Even if it works
perfectly What are the chances they'll change it? And once a month,
updates can easily dork it. Microsoft constantly fiddles with everything,
even if it's working perfectly. It's just what they do.
I think people are better off to get some type of imaging software,
written by people that are experts and specialize in that.  I use macrium
reflect, but there are several others just as good or better and most
have a free version. Backup software is too important to trust microsoft.
Windows backup in Windows 10 and 11 is old Windows 7 code.
- imo, it should be avoided. There are multiple free and fee version
backup and imaging programs much better for imaging and restoration.
Macrium Reflect Free
EaseUs ToDo Backup Free
AOMEI Backupper Standard Free
Paragon Backup and Recovery Community Edition - Free
--
...w¡ñ§±¤ñ
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2025-01-16 05:03:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
I think people are better off to get some type of imaging software ...
On Linux systems, rsync works well. It’s essentially a bulk file-copying
utility. That’s all you need to backup/restore Linux systems.
🌈💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🌈Jen🌈💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🌈 Dershmender 💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🐶笛🌈💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🌈
2025-01-16 05:28:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 05:03:04 -0000 (UTC), LO AND BEHOLD; Lawrence
D'Oliveiro <***@nz.invalid> determined that the following was of great
importance to Lawrence D'Oliveiro <***@nz.invalid> and subsequently
decided to freely share it with us in <vma3u7$3cdmt$***@dont-email.me>:

=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 20:05:34 -0600, Hank Rogers wrote:
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= I think people are better off to get some type of imaging software ...
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= On Linux systems, rsync works well. It’s essentially a bulk
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= file-copying utility. That’s all you need to backup/restore Linux
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= systems.
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=

That's what I've used for 25 years.

There are other backup methods with db backend that can use rsync. I wrote a proprietary in-house per-directory one using rsync to do the heavy lifting within an ssh shell.

You should try that.

HTH
--
"I am not a "hetero cismale"." - Steve K. Hall in <1r5hu1f.z02fkr1t8gjr5N%***@gmail.com>

"Claiming that I "refuse to respect pronouns" is dead wrong. I respect them with everyone but "Jen" and "their" ilk, because "they" are a phony." - Scott Doty AKA Creon AKA Vallor AKA Doc Hammerhead declares why he ironically reserves the "right" to misgender others just like his MAGA bigot cohorts are wont to in Message-ID: <***@mid.individual.net>


Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>
" And yet, one can still see the headers.
If you weren't so stupid, you would know how. I will try, and
likely fail, to dumb it down to your intellectual level.
To the right of the post there are three dots. Click on them. A
few options will appear. Click on "Show original message" and follow
the instructions as best your learning disability will permit.
If you still can't see the headers, there is nothing more I can
do. I cannot dumb this down any more than I have." - Kenito Wills, stupider than shit-stupid. (See: https://ibb.co/MVsRGqN)

"It's just like you to read all that, and come up a sick and clueless response like that one, totally unrelated to the point. It must get confusing to be intelligent enough to "sit at the best reading table in school," and fail to cobble together a basic understanding of what you've just read. The nasty side of you always manages to take control to guard your fragile ego, which explains why you never get along with people, and get visitors like Red Elephant who take the time and trouble to come by and embarrass you..." - <***@usnews.blocknews.net> Jimbo responds to a yes/no question exactly as one might expect him to.

"Bullshit! You salivate over every word I write, then beg for more. Then when you realize that I've put you in another hole you can't worm your way out of... even if you did "sit at the best reading table in elementary school," YOU revert to pedo lames, because that's the best you can do. In fact, no one here has any interest in your obsession with pedo lames but you, because you're intellectually weak. In fact, you seem suspiciously obsessed with that topic. Maybe some day we'll find out why." - <***@usnews.blocknews.net> No Jim, I am not "obsessed" with what you did and concealed and continue to backpedal from.

https://groups.google.com/g/misc.legal/c/6FaoS9bawDI/m/Wdupq7BHaSkJ
"I've spoken against CPS many times. That I realize that they were 100% correct in regards to you doesn't mean I'm pro-CPS." - Kent Wills doesn't like Child Protection Services getting in his way of abusing children.

https://groups.google.com/g/misc.legal/c/AmluvRraNjg/m/gufYNdgK3E8J
"Greg has made it very clear he likes little girls. And not in a sexually healthy way." - Kent Wills believes that there's a "sexually healthy" way to be a pedophile.

"I'm actually glad it's out in the open now, it's a lot of weight to bear. Some will graciously accept that, and some probably won't. It makes it real easy to know who's worth regarding as a friend. Those few remaining haters hide behind socks... I wonder why?" - Checkmate AKA "Rick Sabian" AKA "Morphing Fuckwit" AKA "automatic tranny" AKA "jen der queer" AKA "***@and.prosper" AKA "FOAD <***@grnail.corn>" AKA "Destiny <***@bucket.list>" AKA "DAVID KEETING <***@ass.worm>" AKA "f4c3411 <***@f37l5h.corn>" AKA "<"Hunter's Dildo <***@uPPa.yOOaSS>" >" AKA "Mustafa Sheboygan" AKA "Peter, the Booty Judge" <***@127.0.0.1> AKA "Mund Harmonika <***@127.0.0.1>" AKA "Mundharmonika <***@127.0.0.1>" AKA "% <%@hotmale.com>" AKA "Checkmate <***@soon.corn>" AKA "Mundharmonika <***@MOUTH.ORGAN>" AKA "Mundharmonika <***@127.O.O.1>" AKA "Tard Wrangler <***@alphamale.corn>" hates when people hate pedo rapists. He wants friends who like pedo rapists. Write that down and don't forget it! <https://groups.google.com/g/alt.checkmate/c/2VcCBNwMdeo/m/A0wpvxZRAAAJ>

"I think we should destroy every last fucking mosque in America." - "Checkmate, DoW #1" <***@The.Edge> proves for us that white males are violent in Message-ID: <***@news.altopia.com>

"Yeah, but you think everybody's Greg. There are a couple people here who can't resist responding to everything the aSSwurm or the Pussy Willow says. It does me no good to plonk aSSwurm and Pussy Willow if I still have to wade through a hundred inane posts a day involving those two assholes, so now I've plonked the chronic responders as well. They'll figure it out, and then they can make a choice... exchange stupid drivel with those two, or have more intelligent and interesting conversations with me. I know damned well Greg got sick of all that shit, and now I'm sick of it too. Those who choose to get led around by the lowest common denominator are fucking up AC and every other group they play that game in. If that's the kind of Usenet they want, they can wallow in the same slop as the two retards elsewhere, because they're only contributing to fucking this group up too. I can take or leave this shit, because I have plenty to keep me occupied with my room addition project, and it's a hell of a lot more rewarding than exchanging baby talk with the likes of the aSSwurm. May his fucking worthless AIDS-infested carcass drop fucking dead ASAP and quit wasting oxygen. To sum it up, talk to those two idiots elsewhere, or they'll probably be the only people left to talk to here." One can only presume that Jim and Creon/Vallor have solved this problem and are together in a private chat "having more intelligent and interesting conversations" instead of these "Civil" calls for shunning and authoritative control of discussion. As Seen on TV : <***@news.altopia.com>

"I'm pretty sure all gods are fictional, I'm smart enough to not proclaim I know this." - Kwills is only smart enough to doubt himself while arguing that a belief in imaginary made-up gods can't just be ignored as "mental illness" in <***@4ax.com>

"If you worried half as much about your own personal life as you do everyone else's, you might almost be tolerable, obsessed stalker." -James "Checkmate" Gorman, in perhaps the most ironic and mentally-challenged statement ever made on Usenet. <***@usnews.blocknews.net>

"Trying to diminish others doesn't make you look any better. In fact, it does quite the opposite. Why are you always so bitter and angry? Do you have AIDS or something like so many other tranny girls do?" -James "Checkmate" Gorman in <***@test.blocknews.net>

"You should see my archive on you" -James "Checkmate" Gorman teases us with his "dosser" in <***@usnews.blocknews.net>

"Sorry, nothing to see here. The joint wasn't as bad as they say, but I'm not looking to go back. I'm a model citizen, clean as a whistle. I've owned my own home for 12 years, owned my own business almost as long, don't bother anyone and they don't bother me. You have nothing in any "police report" pertaining to me. Don't you think they would have "come a-knockin" a long time ago if they had any reason to? You're delusional and paranoid, and I have to wonder why.

Oh... I should mention that there are a LOT of trannies in prison. I don't know why, but there are. The State even has to give them hormone shots for their tiddies at taxpayer's expense, and they wear bras and panties. I found everything about them revolting. That's why the whole "Bubba" thing is almost completely a myth, except in cell living. That shit wouldn't fly in a 100-man dorm, but trust me, those little trollops find ways to serve the willing when the lights go out. You see something, you keep your mouth shut about it because that way you don't get in a wreck. I never partook in such activities because the whole idea is just repulsive. I think that's a big part of what I don't like about you. I've seen how they act and I've talked to a few... total drama queens in every sense." -James "Checkmate" Gorman reminisces about prison in <***@usnews.blocknews.net>

"Not true. I've seen square waves on the oscilloscope from some certain generator. Square waves can be created from other than sine waves. Sine waves aren't everything (or anything you sick pervert %), I think that's the point you are missing. - Mathemagician "Lane Larson" in <939d6741-df96-5f2e-a444-***@stoat.inhoin.edu> seems to argue that square wave generators must use Fourier transforms "of course" to generate "almost" square waves... in his feeble attempt to quash my assertion that "square waves do not exist in reality" in post <=3D?U=3D?UTF-8?Q?T?=3DF-8?Q?=3DF0=3D9F=3D8C=3DBA?=3DKWuXdYTXCQ5ApC$@88.203.236.221=3D?U=3D?UTF-8?Q?T?=3DF-8?Q?=3DF0=3D9F=3D8C=3DBA?=3D>.

"Colour me fanboi, oh yes indeed. I'm a fanboi who is proudly content to be just that." - ***@gmail.com (Sn!pe) in <1qx4ikk.c8jzw919si6cmN%***@gmail.com>

Golden Killfile, June 2005
KOTM, November 2006
Bob Allisat Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, November 2006
Special Ops Cody Memorial Purple Heart, November 2006
Special Ops Cody Memorial Purple Heart, September 2007
Tony Sidaway Memorial "Drama Queen" Award, November 2006
Busted Urinal Award, April 2007
Order of the Holey Sockpuppet, September 2007
Barbara Woodhouse Memorial Dog Whistle, September 2006
Barbara Woodhouse Memorial Dog Whistle, April 2008
Tinfoil Sombrero, February 2007
AUK Mascot, September 2007
Putting the Awards Out of Order to Screw With the OCD Fuckheads, March 2016

BEGIN: Official Guarantee of PWNerShip
=?UTF-8?B?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?=
END: Official Guarantee of PWNerShip
Paul
2025-01-16 15:34:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
I think people are better off to get some type of imaging software ...
On Linux systems, rsync works well. It’s essentially a bulk file-copying
utility. That’s all you need to backup/restore Linux systems.
With Macrium, I can back up FAT32, NTFS, ExFAT, and ... EXT4.
This means when I image a dual-boot disk drive here, it is
a *complete* image. I can restore it to a brand new hard drive,
and it boots as if nothing had happened.

As long as my Linux installs use EXT4 for slash, I'm fine
and one imaging tool does everything for me.

The imaging is "smart". in that busy clusters and busy inodes
are backed up, not white space. If I have 20GB of files
on a 1TB EXT4, the backup image is a bit bigger than 20GB
but not by much. Similarly, if I back up 20GB of files
on a 1TB NTFS, the output is not much bigger than 20GB.
And the NTFS and EXT4 can sit in the same MRIMG file,
there is no segregation involved and separate files
for them. It's all in a single file.

Macrium even backs up the 16MB Microsoft Reserved, which
has no file system. It does that using the equivalent of "dd",
but it does not throw a wobbly and complain about what it has
been asked to do. It puts that back on a restore.

Details and automation, are the key to push-button success.

Paul
Hank Rogers
2025-01-16 20:48:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
I think people are better off to get some type of imaging software ...
On Linux systems, rsync works well. It’s essentially a bulk
file-copying utility. That’s all you need to backup/restore Linux
systems.
With Macrium, I can back up FAT32, NTFS, ExFAT, and ... EXT4. This means
when I image a dual-boot disk drive here, it is a *complete* image. I
can restore it to a brand new hard drive,
and it boots as if nothing had happened.
As long as my Linux installs use EXT4 for slash, I'm fine and one
imaging tool does everything for me.
The imaging is "smart". in that busy clusters and busy inodes are backed
up, not white space. If I have 20GB of files on a 1TB EXT4, the backup
image is a bit bigger than 20GB but not by much. Similarly, if I back up
20GB of files on a 1TB NTFS, the output is not much bigger than 20GB.
And the NTFS and EXT4 can sit in the same MRIMG file,
there is no segregation involved and separate files for them. It's all
in a single file.
Macrium even backs up the 16MB Microsoft Reserved, which has no file
system. It does that using the equivalent of "dd", but it does not throw
a wobbly and complain about what it has been asked to do. It puts that
back on a restore.
Details and automation, are the key to push-button success.
Paul
I'm sure Macrium Reflect is a fine bit of software, but I wonder
about the wisdom of imaging a mounted partition. I think the only
way to do that safely would be to boot to a USB stick -- that way,
you aren't trying to image mounted filesystems.
It works just fine on a running windows system. It uses Volume shadow
service. I'm pretty sure most other backup software can also work while
windows is running.
Paul
2025-01-16 23:06:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
I think people are better off to get some type of imaging software ...
On Linux systems, rsync works well. It’s essentially a bulk
file-copying utility. That’s all you need to backup/restore Linux
systems.
With Macrium, I can back up FAT32, NTFS, ExFAT, and ... EXT4. This means
when I image a dual-boot disk drive here, it is a *complete* image. I
can restore it to a brand new hard drive,
and it boots as if nothing had happened.
As long as my Linux installs use EXT4 for slash, I'm fine and one
imaging tool does everything for me.
The imaging is "smart". in that busy clusters and busy inodes are backed
up, not white space. If I have 20GB of files on a 1TB EXT4, the backup
image is a bit bigger than 20GB but not by much. Similarly, if I back up
20GB of files on a 1TB NTFS, the output is not much bigger than 20GB.
And the NTFS and EXT4 can sit in the same MRIMG file,
there is no segregation involved and separate files for them. It's all
in a single file.
Macrium even backs up the 16MB Microsoft Reserved, which has no file
system. It does that using the equivalent of "dd", but it does not throw
a wobbly and complain about what it has been asked to do. It puts that
back on a restore.
Details and automation, are the key to push-button success.
    Paul
I'm sure Macrium Reflect is a fine bit of software, but I wonder
about the wisdom of imaging a mounted partition.  I think the only
way to do that safely would be to boot to a USB stick -- that way,
you aren't trying to image mounted filesystems.
It works just fine on a running windows system. It uses Volume shadow service. I'm pretty sure most other backup software can also work while windows is running.
They *all* use that.
That's because setting a shadow is so easy,
even home users can do one manually.

You can freeze a copy of C: for example, and
run a Robocopy over it.

*******

$ wbAdmin start backup -backupTarget:D: -allCritical # "Windows 7 Backup.exe" run time 3 minutes.

Retrieving volume information...
This will back up (EFI System Partition),W11HOME(C:),(\\?\Volume{c3bc5ab1-c5f0-4dae-838c-751ef868e237}\) to D:.
The backup operation to D: is starting.
Creating a shadow copy of the volumes specified for backup... <=== VSS (C: partition)
Creating a shadow copy of the volumes specified for backup... <=== VSS (Recovery partition )
Creating a backup of volume (EFI System Partition) (100.00 MB), copied (0%).
...
The backup of volume (EFI System Partition) (100.00 MB) completed successfully.
Creating a backup of volume W11HOME(C:), copied (0%).
...
Creating a backup of volume W11HOME(C:), copied (95%).
The backup of volume W11HOME(C:) completed successfully.
The backup of volume (649.00 MB) completed successfully.
Summary of the backup operation:
------------------

The backup operation successfully completed.
The backup of volume (EFI System Partition) (100.00 MB) completed successfully.
The backup of volume W11HOME(C:) completed successfully.
The backup of volume (649.00 MB) completed successfully.
Log of files successfully backed up:
C:\WINDOWS\Logs\WindowsBackup\Backup-16-01-2025_22-52-06.log

$ dir *.vhdx

Directory of D:\WindowsImageBackup\WALLACE\Backup 2025-01-16 225206

Thu, 01/16/2025 05:55 PM 72,240,594,944 0bd6166a-0836-4041-891c-792df2c72abd.vhdx <=== C: partition
Thu, 01/16/2025 05:55 PM 620,756,992 c3bc5ab1-c5f0-4dae-838c-751ef868e237.vhdx <=== Recovery partition
Thu, 01/16/2025 05:55 PM 60,817,408 Esp.vhdx <=== FAT32 boot materials

It's too bad the restore didn't run smooth like that.
But that's just to demonstrate that programs use shadows.
Even disk2vhd from Russinovich, I think that sets a shadow too.

Paul
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2025-01-17 02:49:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
You can freeze a copy of C: for example, and run a Robocopy over it.
Until you hit the limitations of Windows and Robocopy, and have to give up
on it and use Linux instead.

<https://www.theregister.com/2010/09/24/sysadmin_file_tools/>
vallor
2025-01-17 03:51:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 02:49:17 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
You can freeze a copy of C: for example, and run a Robocopy over it.
Until you hit the limitations of Windows and Robocopy, and have to give
up on it and use Linux instead.
<https://www.theregister.com/2010/09/24/sysadmin_file_tools/>
I suspect things may have changed in the last *14 years*.
--
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
OS: Linux 6.12.9 Release: Mint 21.3 Mem: 258G
"Do not remove this tagline under penalty of law."
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2025-01-17 00:10:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Paul
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
I think people are better off to get some type of imaging software ...
On Linux systems, rsync works well. It’s essentially a bulk
file-copying utility. That’s all you need to backup/restore Linux
systems.
With Macrium, I can back up FAT32, NTFS, ExFAT, and ... EXT4.
I’m sure you can, but you cannot switch filesystem types that way.

File-level copying tools (like rsync) don’t care about low-level details
like volume formats, which makes it easy to switch between them.
🌈💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🌈Jen🌈💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🌈 Dershmender 💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🐶笛🌈💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🌈
2025-01-15 05:24:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 15 Jan 2025 00:30:05 GMT, LO AND BEHOLD; vallor <***@cultnix.org>
determined that the following was of great importance to vallor
<***@cultnix.org> and subsequently decided to freely share it with
us in <***@mid.individual.net>:

=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= On Mon, 13 Jan 2025 17:52:05 -0600, Hank Rogers <***@nospam.invalid>
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= wrote in <vm48v6$23a1f$***@dont-email.me>:
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= Joel wrote:
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= CrudeSausage <***@sausa.ge> wrote:
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= On 2025-01-13 17:54, Joel wrote:
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= CrudeSausage <***@sausa.ge> wrote:
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= On 2025-01-13 16:32, Joel wrote:
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= MikeS <***@fred.com> wrote:
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= On 12/01/2025 23:23, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= Windows is a great OS -- if your time is worth nothing.
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= So which OS do you choose to expend your valuable time on?
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= Linux is the only option worth pursuing. macOS is weird and expensive,
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= Windows is bloatware beyond belief.
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= There's not much to pursue in MacOS. It works as it should and it is a
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= fairly pleasant experience. However, I would agree that it's expensive.
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= After a while, you'll need tools to do additional things and on MacOS,
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= you're going to be paying money in most cases. Open-source is available
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= for it too, mind you.
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= I just dislike Windows and macOS, it might be my own opinion but it's
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= right for me.
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= MacOS machines have a shelf life of about seven years before Apple
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= decides that your machine is no longer worth supporting with updates.
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= As we've seen, Windows machines get about seven, so it's a fair amount
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= of time. However, Linux has them both beat with unlimited support no
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= matter how pathetic the machine you're running it on is.
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= My machine is an interesting example - if I'd stayed with Win10, it'd be
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= slammin', but then support would end relatively early in its life. So
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= upgrade to 11, great, until the bloat overtakes it, as in my view it
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= already began to with 23H2. Linux is the only way to solve this
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= dilemma.
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= Indeed, linux is the only way to salvation.
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= I'm glad you see the light, Brother Hank!
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= https://cultnix.org/
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= (_Cult of Unix_ home page -- there's nothing there but a title with an
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= animated gif, perhaps I should add some epistles? ;) )
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= ObWindows:
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= Just navigated the backup mess in Windows 11 -- looks like one can set
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= up periodic traditional backups in the control panel, but there's no
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= options in the separate "cloud backup" tool except Microsoft's thing
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= (Onedrive?).
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= ObLinux:
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= I also have to figure out why the virt didn't see any network shares,
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= which would be the Samba instances on the local workstation and on my
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= Synology Diskstation...
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= And BTW, regarding Windows: I'm glad they've kept the control panel
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= from Windows 7.
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=

You might have to enable SMB V1 protocol

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/storage/file-server/troubleshoot/detect-enable-and-disable-smbv1-v2-v3?tabs=server
--
"I am not a "hetero cismale"." - Steve K. Hall in <1r5hu1f.z02fkr1t8gjr5N%***@gmail.com>

"Claiming that I "refuse to respect pronouns" is dead wrong. I respect them with everyone but "Jen" and "their" ilk, because "they" are a phony." - Scott Doty AKA Creon AKA Vallor AKA Doc Hammerhead declares why he ironically reserves the "right" to misgender others just like his MAGA bigot cohorts are wont to in Message-ID: <***@mid.individual.net>


Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>
" And yet, one can still see the headers.
If you weren't so stupid, you would know how. I will try, and
likely fail, to dumb it down to your intellectual level.
To the right of the post there are three dots. Click on them. A
few options will appear. Click on "Show original message" and follow
the instructions as best your learning disability will permit.
If you still can't see the headers, there is nothing more I can
do. I cannot dumb this down any more than I have." - Kenito Wills, stupider than shit-stupid. (See: https://ibb.co/MVsRGqN)

"It's just like you to read all that, and come up a sick and clueless response like that one, totally unrelated to the point. It must get confusing to be intelligent enough to "sit at the best reading table in school," and fail to cobble together a basic understanding of what you've just read. The nasty side of you always manages to take control to guard your fragile ego, which explains why you never get along with people, and get visitors like Red Elephant who take the time and trouble to come by and embarrass you..." - <***@usnews.blocknews.net> Jimbo responds to a yes/no question exactly as one might expect him to.

"Bullshit! You salivate over every word I write, then beg for more. Then when you realize that I've put you in another hole you can't worm your way out of... even if you did "sit at the best reading table in elementary school," YOU revert to pedo lames, because that's the best you can do. In fact, no one here has any interest in your obsession with pedo lames but you, because you're intellectually weak. In fact, you seem suspiciously obsessed with that topic. Maybe some day we'll find out why." - <***@usnews.blocknews.net> No Jim, I am not "obsessed" with what you did and concealed and continue to backpedal from.

https://groups.google.com/g/misc.legal/c/6FaoS9bawDI/m/Wdupq7BHaSkJ
"I've spoken against CPS many times. That I realize that they were 100% correct in regards to you doesn't mean I'm pro-CPS." - Kent Wills doesn't like Child Protection Services getting in his way of abusing children.

https://groups.google.com/g/misc.legal/c/AmluvRraNjg/m/gufYNdgK3E8J
"Greg has made it very clear he likes little girls. And not in a sexually healthy way." - Kent Wills believes that there's a "sexually healthy" way to be a pedophile.

"I'm actually glad it's out in the open now, it's a lot of weight to bear. Some will graciously accept that, and some probably won't. It makes it real easy to know who's worth regarding as a friend. Those few remaining haters hide behind socks... I wonder why?" - Checkmate AKA "Rick Sabian" AKA "Morphing Fuckwit" AKA "automatic tranny" AKA "jen der queer" AKA "***@and.prosper" AKA "FOAD <***@grnail.corn>" AKA "Destiny <***@bucket.list>" AKA "DAVID KEETING <***@ass.worm>" AKA "f4c3411 <***@f37l5h.corn>" AKA "<"Hunter's Dildo <***@uPPa.yOOaSS>" >" AKA "Mustafa Sheboygan" AKA "Peter, the Booty Judge" <***@127.0.0.1> AKA "Mund Harmonika <***@127.0.0.1>" AKA "Mundharmonika <***@127.0.0.1>" AKA "% <%@hotmale.com>" AKA "Checkmate <***@soon.corn>" AKA "Mundharmonika <***@MOUTH.ORGAN>" AKA "Mundharmonika <***@127.O.O.1>" AKA "Tard Wrangler <***@alphamale.corn>" hates when people hate pedo rapists. He wants friends who like pedo rapists. Write that down and don't forget it! <https://groups.google.com/g/alt.checkmate/c/2VcCBNwMdeo/m/A0wpvxZRAAAJ>

"I think we should destroy every last fucking mosque in America." - "Checkmate, DoW #1" <***@The.Edge> proves for us that white males are violent in Message-ID: <***@news.altopia.com>

"Yeah, but you think everybody's Greg. There are a couple people here who can't resist responding to everything the aSSwurm or the Pussy Willow says. It does me no good to plonk aSSwurm and Pussy Willow if I still have to wade through a hundred inane posts a day involving those two assholes, so now I've plonked the chronic responders as well. They'll figure it out, and then they can make a choice... exchange stupid drivel with those two, or have more intelligent and interesting conversations with me. I know damned well Greg got sick of all that shit, and now I'm sick of it too. Those who choose to get led around by the lowest common denominator are fucking up AC and every other group they play that game in. If that's the kind of Usenet they want, they can wallow in the same slop as the two retards elsewhere, because they're only contributing to fucking this group up too. I can take or leave this shit, because I have plenty to keep me occupied with my room addition project, and it's a hell of a lot more rewarding than exchanging baby talk with the likes of the aSSwurm. May his fucking worthless AIDS-infested carcass drop fucking dead ASAP and quit wasting oxygen. To sum it up, talk to those two idiots elsewhere, or they'll probably be the only people left to talk to here." One can only presume that Jim and Creon/Vallor have solved this problem and are together in a private chat "having more intelligent and interesting conversations" instead of these "Civil" calls for shunning and authoritative control of discussion. As Seen on TV : <***@news.altopia.com>

"I'm pretty sure all gods are fictional, I'm smart enough to not proclaim I know this." - Kwills is only smart enough to doubt himself while arguing that a belief in imaginary made-up gods can't just be ignored as "mental illness" in <***@4ax.com>

"If you worried half as much about your own personal life as you do everyone else's, you might almost be tolerable, obsessed stalker." -James "Checkmate" Gorman, in perhaps the most ironic and mentally-challenged statement ever made on Usenet. <***@usnews.blocknews.net>

"Trying to diminish others doesn't make you look any better. In fact, it does quite the opposite. Why are you always so bitter and angry? Do you have AIDS or something like so many other tranny girls do?" -James "Checkmate" Gorman in <***@test.blocknews.net>

"You should see my archive on you" -James "Checkmate" Gorman teases us with his "dosser" in <***@usnews.blocknews.net>

"Sorry, nothing to see here. The joint wasn't as bad as they say, but I'm not looking to go back. I'm a model citizen, clean as a whistle. I've owned my own home for 12 years, owned my own business almost as long, don't bother anyone and they don't bother me. You have nothing in any "police report" pertaining to me. Don't you think they would have "come a-knockin" a long time ago if they had any reason to? You're delusional and paranoid, and I have to wonder why.

Oh... I should mention that there are a LOT of trannies in prison. I don't know why, but there are. The State even has to give them hormone shots for their tiddies at taxpayer's expense, and they wear bras and panties. I found everything about them revolting. That's why the whole "Bubba" thing is almost completely a myth, except in cell living. That shit wouldn't fly in a 100-man dorm, but trust me, those little trollops find ways to serve the willing when the lights go out. You see something, you keep your mouth shut about it because that way you don't get in a wreck. I never partook in such activities because the whole idea is just repulsive. I think that's a big part of what I don't like about you. I've seen how they act and I've talked to a few... total drama queens in every sense." -James "Checkmate" Gorman reminisces about prison in <***@usnews.blocknews.net>

"Not true. I've seen square waves on the oscilloscope from some certain generator. Square waves can be created from other than sine waves. Sine waves aren't everything (or anything you sick pervert %), I think that's the point you are missing. - Mathemagician "Lane Larson" in <939d6741-df96-5f2e-a444-***@stoat.inhoin.edu> seems to argue that square wave generators must use Fourier transforms "of course" to generate "almost" square waves... in his feeble attempt to quash my assertion that "square waves do not exist in reality" in post <=3D?U=3D?UTF-8?Q?T?=3DF-8?Q?=3DF0=3D9F=3D8C=3DBA?=3DKWuXdYTXCQ5ApC$@88.203.236.221=3D?U=3D?UTF-8?Q?T?=3DF-8?Q?=3DF0=3D9F=3D8C=3DBA?=3D>.

"Colour me fanboi, oh yes indeed. I'm a fanboi who is proudly content to be just that." - ***@gmail.com (Sn!pe) in <1qx4ikk.c8jzw919si6cmN%***@gmail.com>

Golden Killfile, June 2005
KOTM, November 2006
Bob Allisat Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, November 2006
Special Ops Cody Memorial Purple Heart, November 2006
Special Ops Cody Memorial Purple Heart, September 2007
Tony Sidaway Memorial "Drama Queen" Award, November 2006
Busted Urinal Award, April 2007
Order of the Holey Sockpuppet, September 2007
Barbara Woodhouse Memorial Dog Whistle, September 2006
Barbara Woodhouse Memorial Dog Whistle, April 2008
Tinfoil Sombrero, February 2007
AUK Mascot, September 2007
Putting the Awards Out of Order to Screw With the OCD Fuckheads, March 2016

BEGIN: Official Guarantee of PWNerShip
=?UTF-8?B?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?=
END: Official Guarantee of PWNerShip
vallor
2025-01-15 08:38:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 15 Jan 2025 05:24:00 +0000, 🌈💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🌈Jen🌈💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🌈 Dershmender
💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🐶笛🌈💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🌈 <***@127.0.0.1> wrote in
<=3D?U=3D?UTF-8?Q?T?=3DF-8?Q?=3DF0=3D9F=3D8C=3DBA?=3DPmqKdu54gmAMf3$@92.78.154.93=3D?U=3D?UTF-8?Q?T?=3DF-8?Q?=3DF0=3D9F=3D8C=3DBA?=3D>:

On Wed, 15 Jan 2025 05:24:00 +0000, JenDershmender
Post by 🌈💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🌈Jen🌈💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🌈 Dershmender 💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🐶笛🌈💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🌈
You might have to enable SMB V1 protocol
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/storage/file-server/
troubleshoot/detect-enable-and-disable-smbv1-v2-v3?tabs=server

Um...no. "Wouldn't be prudent."

The solution was to do the following:

1) Enter the share server name as an IP address, and
2) prefix the backup login user with "WORKGROUP\".

https://community.covecube.com/index.php?/topic/5253-file-share-error-validation-information-class-requested-was-invalid/
--
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
OS: Linux 6.12.9 Release: Mint 21.3 Mem: 258G
"Always remember no matter where you go, there you are."
🌈💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🌈Jen🌈💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🌈 Dershmender 💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🐶笛🌈💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🌈
2025-01-15 17:22:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 15 Jan 2025 08:38:18 GMT, LO AND BEHOLD; vallor <***@cultnix.org>
determined that the following was of great importance to vallor
<***@cultnix.org> and subsequently decided to freely share it with
us in <***@mid.individual.net>:

=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= On Wed, 15 Jan 2025 05:24:00 +0000,
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= 🌈💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🌈Jen🌈💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= 🌷🌺🌈 Dershmender
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= 💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🐶笛🌈💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= 🌺🌈 <***@127.0.0.1> wrote in
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= <=3D?U=3D?UTF-8?Q?T?=3DF-8?Q?=3DF0=3D9F=3D8C=3DBA?=3DPmqKdu54gmAMf3$@92
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= .78.154.93=3D?U=3D?UTF-8?Q?T?=3DF-8?Q?=3DF0=3D9F=3D8C=3DBA?=3D>:
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= On Wed, 15 Jan 2025 05:24:00 +0000, JenDershmender <***@127.0.0.1>
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= wrote
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= You might have to enable SMB V1 protocol
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/storage/file-server/
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= troubleshoot/detect-enable-and-disable-smbv1-v2-v3?tabs=server
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= Um...no. "Wouldn't be prudent."
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= The solution was to do the following:
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= 1) Enter the share server name as an IP address, and 2) prefix the
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= backup login user with "WORKGROUP\".
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= https://community.covecube.com/index.php?/topic/5253-file-share-error-va
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= lidation-information-class-requested-was-invalid/
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=

I guess I gave you the benefit of doubt that you had checked that the login credentials were correct.

Some old hardware NAS are stuck with SMBv1 and require an exception. SMBv1 on an internal private network that's properly firewalled isn't the security issue some might make it out to be.
--
"I am not a "hetero cismale"." - Steve K. Hall in <1r5hu1f.z02fkr1t8gjr5N%***@gmail.com>

"Claiming that I "refuse to respect pronouns" is dead wrong. I respect them with everyone but "Jen" and "their" ilk, because "they" are a phony." - Scott Doty AKA Creon AKA Vallor AKA Doc Hammerhead declares why he ironically reserves the "right" to misgender others just like his MAGA bigot cohorts are wont to in Message-ID: <***@mid.individual.net>


Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>
" And yet, one can still see the headers.
If you weren't so stupid, you would know how. I will try, and
likely fail, to dumb it down to your intellectual level.
To the right of the post there are three dots. Click on them. A
few options will appear. Click on "Show original message" and follow
the instructions as best your learning disability will permit.
If you still can't see the headers, there is nothing more I can
do. I cannot dumb this down any more than I have." - Kenito Wills, stupider than shit-stupid. (See: https://ibb.co/MVsRGqN)

"It's just like you to read all that, and come up a sick and clueless response like that one, totally unrelated to the point. It must get confusing to be intelligent enough to "sit at the best reading table in school," and fail to cobble together a basic understanding of what you've just read. The nasty side of you always manages to take control to guard your fragile ego, which explains why you never get along with people, and get visitors like Red Elephant who take the time and trouble to come by and embarrass you..." - <***@usnews.blocknews.net> Jimbo responds to a yes/no question exactly as one might expect him to.

"Bullshit! You salivate over every word I write, then beg for more. Then when you realize that I've put you in another hole you can't worm your way out of... even if you did "sit at the best reading table in elementary school," YOU revert to pedo lames, because that's the best you can do. In fact, no one here has any interest in your obsession with pedo lames but you, because you're intellectually weak. In fact, you seem suspiciously obsessed with that topic. Maybe some day we'll find out why." - <***@usnews.blocknews.net> No Jim, I am not "obsessed" with what you did and concealed and continue to backpedal from.

https://groups.google.com/g/misc.legal/c/6FaoS9bawDI/m/Wdupq7BHaSkJ
"I've spoken against CPS many times. That I realize that they were 100% correct in regards to you doesn't mean I'm pro-CPS." - Kent Wills doesn't like Child Protection Services getting in his way of abusing children.

https://groups.google.com/g/misc.legal/c/AmluvRraNjg/m/gufYNdgK3E8J
"Greg has made it very clear he likes little girls. And not in a sexually healthy way." - Kent Wills believes that there's a "sexually healthy" way to be a pedophile.

"I'm actually glad it's out in the open now, it's a lot of weight to bear. Some will graciously accept that, and some probably won't. It makes it real easy to know who's worth regarding as a friend. Those few remaining haters hide behind socks... I wonder why?" - Checkmate AKA "Rick Sabian" AKA "Morphing Fuckwit" AKA "automatic tranny" AKA "jen der queer" AKA "***@and.prosper" AKA "FOAD <***@grnail.corn>" AKA "Destiny <***@bucket.list>" AKA "DAVID KEETING <***@ass.worm>" AKA "f4c3411 <***@f37l5h.corn>" AKA "<"Hunter's Dildo <***@uPPa.yOOaSS>" >" AKA "Mustafa Sheboygan" AKA "Peter, the Booty Judge" <***@127.0.0.1> AKA "Mund Harmonika <***@127.0.0.1>" AKA "Mundharmonika <***@127.0.0.1>" AKA "% <%@hotmale.com>" AKA "Checkmate <***@soon.corn>" AKA "Mundharmonika <***@MOUTH.ORGAN>" AKA "Mundharmonika <***@127.O.O.1>" AKA "Tard Wrangler <***@alphamale.corn>" hates when people hate pedo rapists. He wants friends who like pedo rapists. Write that down and don't forget it! <https://groups.google.com/g/alt.checkmate/c/2VcCBNwMdeo/m/A0wpvxZRAAAJ>

"I think we should destroy every last fucking mosque in America." - "Checkmate, DoW #1" <***@The.Edge> proves for us that white males are violent in Message-ID: <***@news.altopia.com>

"Yeah, but you think everybody's Greg. There are a couple people here who can't resist responding to everything the aSSwurm or the Pussy Willow says. It does me no good to plonk aSSwurm and Pussy Willow if I still have to wade through a hundred inane posts a day involving those two assholes, so now I've plonked the chronic responders as well. They'll figure it out, and then they can make a choice... exchange stupid drivel with those two, or have more intelligent and interesting conversations with me. I know damned well Greg got sick of all that shit, and now I'm sick of it too. Those who choose to get led around by the lowest common denominator are fucking up AC and every other group they play that game in. If that's the kind of Usenet they want, they can wallow in the same slop as the two retards elsewhere, because they're only contributing to fucking this group up too. I can take or leave this shit, because I have plenty to keep me occupied with my room addition project, and it's a hell of a lot more rewarding than exchanging baby talk with the likes of the aSSwurm. May his fucking worthless AIDS-infested carcass drop fucking dead ASAP and quit wasting oxygen. To sum it up, talk to those two idiots elsewhere, or they'll probably be the only people left to talk to here." One can only presume that Jim and Creon/Vallor have solved this problem and are together in a private chat "having more intelligent and interesting conversations" instead of these "Civil" calls for shunning and authoritative control of discussion. As Seen on TV : <***@news.altopia.com>

"I'm pretty sure all gods are fictional, I'm smart enough to not proclaim I know this." - Kwills is only smart enough to doubt himself while arguing that a belief in imaginary made-up gods can't just be ignored as "mental illness" in <***@4ax.com>

"If you worried half as much about your own personal life as you do everyone else's, you might almost be tolerable, obsessed stalker." -James "Checkmate" Gorman, in perhaps the most ironic and mentally-challenged statement ever made on Usenet. <***@usnews.blocknews.net>

"Trying to diminish others doesn't make you look any better. In fact, it does quite the opposite. Why are you always so bitter and angry? Do you have AIDS or something like so many other tranny girls do?" -James "Checkmate" Gorman in <***@test.blocknews.net>

"You should see my archive on you" -James "Checkmate" Gorman teases us with his "dosser" in <***@usnews.blocknews.net>

"Sorry, nothing to see here. The joint wasn't as bad as they say, but I'm not looking to go back. I'm a model citizen, clean as a whistle. I've owned my own home for 12 years, owned my own business almost as long, don't bother anyone and they don't bother me. You have nothing in any "police report" pertaining to me. Don't you think they would have "come a-knockin" a long time ago if they had any reason to? You're delusional and paranoid, and I have to wonder why.

Oh... I should mention that there are a LOT of trannies in prison. I don't know why, but there are. The State even has to give them hormone shots for their tiddies at taxpayer's expense, and they wear bras and panties. I found everything about them revolting. That's why the whole "Bubba" thing is almost completely a myth, except in cell living. That shit wouldn't fly in a 100-man dorm, but trust me, those little trollops find ways to serve the willing when the lights go out. You see something, you keep your mouth shut about it because that way you don't get in a wreck. I never partook in such activities because the whole idea is just repulsive. I think that's a big part of what I don't like about you. I've seen how they act and I've talked to a few... total drama queens in every sense." -James "Checkmate" Gorman reminisces about prison in <***@usnews.blocknews.net>

"Not true. I've seen square waves on the oscilloscope from some certain generator. Square waves can be created from other than sine waves. Sine waves aren't everything (or anything you sick pervert %), I think that's the point you are missing. - Mathemagician "Lane Larson" in <939d6741-df96-5f2e-a444-***@stoat.inhoin.edu> seems to argue that square wave generators must use Fourier transforms "of course" to generate "almost" square waves... in his feeble attempt to quash my assertion that "square waves do not exist in reality" in post <=3D?U=3D?UTF-8?Q?T?=3DF-8?Q?=3DF0=3D9F=3D8C=3DBA?=3DKWuXdYTXCQ5ApC$@88.203.236.221=3D?U=3D?UTF-8?Q?T?=3DF-8?Q?=3DF0=3D9F=3D8C=3DBA?=3D>.

"Colour me fanboi, oh yes indeed. I'm a fanboi who is proudly content to be just that." - ***@gmail.com (Sn!pe) in <1qx4ikk.c8jzw919si6cmN%***@gmail.com>

Golden Killfile, June 2005
KOTM, November 2006
Bob Allisat Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, November 2006
Special Ops Cody Memorial Purple Heart, November 2006
Special Ops Cody Memorial Purple Heart, September 2007
Tony Sidaway Memorial "Drama Queen" Award, November 2006
Busted Urinal Award, April 2007
Order of the Holey Sockpuppet, September 2007
Barbara Woodhouse Memorial Dog Whistle, September 2006
Barbara Woodhouse Memorial Dog Whistle, April 2008
Tinfoil Sombrero, February 2007
AUK Mascot, September 2007
Putting the Awards Out of Order to Screw With the OCD Fuckheads, March 2016

BEGIN: Official Guarantee of PWNerShip
=?UTF-8?B?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?=
END: Official Guarantee of PWNerShip
CrudeSausage
2025-01-14 02:44:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Joel
Post by CrudeSausage
Post by Joel
Post by CrudeSausage
Post by Joel
Post by MikeS
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Windows is a great OS -- if your time is worth
nothing.
So which OS do you choose to expend your valuable time on?
Linux is the only option worth pursuing. macOS is weird and
expensive, Windows is bloatware beyond belief.
There's not much to pursue in MacOS. It works as it should and it is a
fairly pleasant experience. However, I would agree that it's expensive.
After a while, you'll need tools to do additional things and on MacOS,
you're going to be paying money in most cases. Open-source is available
for it too, mind you.
I just dislike Windows and macOS, it might be my own opinion but it's
right for me.
MacOS machines have a shelf life of about seven years before Apple
decides that your machine is no longer worth supporting with updates. As
we've seen, Windows machines get about seven, so it's a fair amount of
time. However, Linux has them both beat with unlimited support no matter
how pathetic the machine you're running it on is.
My machine is an interesting example - if I'd stayed with Win10, it'd
be slammin', but then support would end relatively early in its life.
So upgrade to 11, great, until the bloat overtakes it, as in my view
it already began to with 23H2. Linux is the only way to solve this
dilemma.
I just saw what I wrote. Windows machines get about ten years of
updates, not seven. Macs consistently get the least.
--
CrudeSausage
Gab: @CrudeSausage
Unapologetic paleoconservative
Manu Raju
2025-01-14 03:09:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Joel
My machine is an interesting example - if I'd stayed with Win10, it'd
be slammin', but then support would end relatively early in its life.
So upgrade to 11, great, until the bloat overtakes it, as in my view
it already began to with 23H2. Linux is the only way to solve this
dilemma.
It is an interesting example indeed. Linux gets bloats every two weeks
and some people like it! I don't and so I solved the dilemma by moving
to Windows.

Have a nice day or evening where ever you are.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2025-01-15 06:56:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Manu Raju
Linux gets bloats every two weeks
and some people like it! I don't and so I solved the dilemma by moving
to Windows.
Windows is the one that needs regular defragging and running of dodgy
hacks like CCleaner etc. Linux does not.
Paul
2025-01-15 07:52:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by Manu Raju
Linux gets bloats every two weeks
and some people like it! I don't and so I solved the dilemma by moving
to Windows.
Windows is the one that needs regular defragging and running of dodgy
hacks like CCleaner etc. Linux does not.
On an SSD, TRIM is preferred to defrag.

The Windows defragmenter is a pretty clever design now. The
one in WinXP era was written by a third party company, and it
was of the "solid green bar" kind, with all the files pushed
shoulder to shoulder. The one written in-house by Microsoft staff,
doesn't do that. Space is left between files. I haven't seen a
description of how that helps, but normally fragmentation is
not an issue. And I haven't seen reports of fragmentation-related
issues. The defragmenter does "consolidate", there is *some*
pushing together, but it's not the solid green line kind of
effort. This is why the defrag takes ten minutes instead of
eight hours.

Defragmentation of hard drives in Windows is still a thing,
and the Optimizer has this scheduled for once a week or so.
At which time, the fragmentation might be 2%-3% or so. Unless
you have used pathological tools to fragment the file systems
on purpose, they're not usually chopped all that much in a
time frame like that. You could, for example, use the Passmark
Fragmenter, to implement a pathological case.

The way Windows buffers data on writes has changed. And this
could be seen in the Passmark Fragmenter. In an OS like
windows 7, you could see fragments 4096 bytes in size (one cluster).
While the OS writes in cluster quanta, the write buffer was
changed to 64KB, and it won't write one cluster when one cluster
is ready. It waits until there is a larger amount. This caused
the writer on the Fragmenter to make no fragment smaller than
64KB. And you could no longer achieve the same level of "Swiss Cheese"
in the file system, as before. This could partially be due to the
prevalence of SSDs and the need to write in block-sized chunks,
or it could be related to the COW problem. But quietly, a change
was made to writing, and I haven't seen a popular article with
the details.

I don't use CCleaner here. What was the problem again ?
There are people who use Registry Cleaners. Is that clever ?
Not really. The registry files stay relatively small. They're
journaled for integrity, the file system has a journal as well,
making the Registry files quite good at avoiding trouble.
Corruption of the Registry might be more common in the
Win98 era when the power goes off.

Paul
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2025-01-17 00:11:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Paul
The Windows defragmenter is a pretty clever design now.
I’m sure it is. But it is yet more overhead that slows down a Windows
system compared to Linux running on the same hardware.
vallor
2025-01-17 03:45:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 00:11:25 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by Paul
The Windows defragmenter is a pretty clever design now.
I’m sure it is. But it is yet more overhead that slows down a Windows
system compared to Linux running on the same hardware.
Slow your roll, Chachi:

$ whatis e4defrag
e4defrag (8) - online defragmenter for ext4 file system
--
-v
Joel
2025-01-15 15:40:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by Manu Raju
Linux gets bloats every two weeks
and some people like it! I don't and so I solved the dilemma by moving
to Windows.
Windows is the one that needs regular defragging and running of dodgy
hacks like CCleaner etc. Linux does not.
I never needed that with Windows, but reinstalling ended up happening,
from time to time.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.
rbowman
2025-01-15 23:14:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Joel
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Linux gets bloats every two weeks and some people like it! I don't
and so I solved the dilemma by moving to Windows.
Windows is the one that needs regular defragging and running of dodgy
hacks like CCleaner etc. Linux does not.
I never needed that with Windows, but reinstalling ended up happening,
from time to time.
I haven't bothered with dual boot in a long time but the problem with a
Windows install that had been running for any length of time was it left
pecker tracks all over the HDD. You had to defrag to get enough free
storage all in one place.
Paul
2025-01-16 01:15:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by rbowman
Post by Joel
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Linux gets bloats every two weeks and some people like it! I don't
and so I solved the dilemma by moving to Windows.
Windows is the one that needs regular defragging and running of dodgy
hacks like CCleaner etc. Linux does not.
I never needed that with Windows, but reinstalling ended up happening,
from time to time.
I haven't bothered with dual boot in a long time but the problem with a
Windows install that had been running for any length of time was it left
pecker tracks all over the HDD. You had to defrag to get enough free
storage all in one place.
Not in evidence.

The writer tends to maintain a couple of zones. Some
of the larger files seem to end up above, a lot of the smaller files
are below. The NTFS file system has a "reserved" area, which
interferes with operation of the partition, as the partition fills up.
This is why, quite frequently, patterns which should not create fragments,
result in "yellow" in a partition that should not have been there. The
reserved area starts at a certain size, and the amount of reservation
changes as the space fills up. For people who like their files packed
like sardines, they are most put out by this development :-)

[Picture]

Loading Image...

These sample OSes are all on SSDs, where the rule is, you do not defragment them.
(SSDs get TRIM, instead.) The OS still has the right to defragment them,
if slow-COW conditions are detected. That should not have happened to these.

The top two panes are from a newer AMD system. The bottom two panes
are from the 4930K ten year old computer.

The "red line" is an item that cannot be moved by the defragmentation
tool used to make these pictures. I use the tool for taking pictures,
when these particular devices are involved. The fragmentation means
nothing (at this light level of fragmentation) to performance.

The "red line" can also not be moved by the windows Disk Management
"shrink function". It can shrink to about 50% of the original partition
space, when a partition does not have a lot of files. In the "red line example"
at the bottom, the Disk Management will shrink to 50%, while other methods
will shrink to 33% or so. The shrinking process stops when it hits
that red line.

Generally, if the program doing the shrink is doing it in an offline
fashion, that gives much better control than when the Windows one attempts
to do it online ("hot" shrink). Thus, gparted can shrink the red line pane,
to the 33% number without too much delay.

It's the same with zeroing functions. The Windows third party tool is
"sdelete64.exe" and it zeros a partition while the partition remains
mounted. Whereas Linux "zerofree" does this same kind of function
on unmounted partitions.

One reason the Windows people like to show off with their
functions such as shrink, is they're implemented with the
data-safe defragmenter API. Which was originally written
by a third party, but was good enough for Microsoft to buy
it and put it in the OS as a library. Everybody and his dog
uses that library. It would be "extra work" for somebody
to write an offline version of the tool instead :-) The tool
that took the green pictures, also uses that library.

There's still plenty of room to work on those partitions.

On this sample data partition, this shows how the writer
is filling in the holes, and the two "air holes" are likely
a result of the reserved space handling. Again, being on an
SSD, no attempt has ever been made to defragment the thing.
And the green, is files which are contiguous and their
clusters are in cluster-order. The yellow ones are "largely ordered",
but as soon as one cluster goes out of line for such a file,
the whole file will be yellow. Considering "how evil" fragmentation
is, you don't see a lot of fragmentation there.

[Picture]

Loading Image...

*******

This picture was done seven years ago. The top two panes are
performance on a RAMdrive. Running a checksum program on
a large file, one with a lot of fragments, one with no fragments,
there is hardly any speed difference to the performance of the
checksum program when we are measuring the file system stack
penalty for fragments.

[Picture} Top two panes = RAMDrive, bottom two panes = SATA SSD

Loading Image...

Whereas the bottom case, the seek time on an SSD could be 20 microseconds
or so. And then the SSD speed does have an impact on the read rate of
the checksumming process. When doing these experiments, you do a bit of
fiddling first to clear the System Read cache.

No attempt was made to run that on a HDD, as the results would
be quite bad on an HDD. The rattling noise that would make, would
get on my nerves.

And the pattern on the storage there, was done with a purpose-built
pathological tool. I wasn't doing my income taxes to make that pattern.
Regular disk usage does not fragment like that.

Is Windows cheating to make relatively good-looking partitions ?
It's possible. I do not normally see suspicious patterns of the
drive light, hinting that some rearranging is going on. The write
algo has changed since WinXP days, whatever it is. Leaving holes
in the cheese, seems to have something to do with later placing
small files in the holes.

Paul
pothead
2025-01-16 01:29:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Paul
Post by rbowman
Post by Joel
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Linux gets bloats every two weeks and some people like it! I don't
and so I solved the dilemma by moving to Windows.
Windows is the one that needs regular defragging and running of dodgy
hacks like CCleaner etc. Linux does not.
I never needed that with Windows, but reinstalling ended up happening,
from time to time.
I haven't bothered with dual boot in a long time but the problem with a
Windows install that had been running for any length of time was it left
pecker tracks all over the HDD. You had to defrag to get enough free
storage all in one place.
Not in evidence.
The writer tends to maintain a couple of zones. Some
of the larger files seem to end up above, a lot of the smaller files
are below. The NTFS file system has a "reserved" area, which
interferes with operation of the partition, as the partition fills up.
This is why, quite frequently, patterns which should not create fragments,
result in "yellow" in a partition that should not have been there. The
reserved area starts at a certain size, and the amount of reservation
changes as the space fills up. For people who like their files packed
like sardines, they are most put out by this development :-)
[Picture]
https://i.postimg.cc/YCDLWmkB/Windows-SSD-fragmentation.gif
These sample OSes are all on SSDs, where the rule is, you do not defragment them.
(SSDs get TRIM, instead.) The OS still has the right to defragment them,
if slow-COW conditions are detected. That should not have happened to these.
The top two panes are from a newer AMD system. The bottom two panes
are from the 4930K ten year old computer.
The "red line" is an item that cannot be moved by the defragmentation
tool used to make these pictures. I use the tool for taking pictures,
when these particular devices are involved. The fragmentation means
nothing (at this light level of fragmentation) to performance.
The "red line" can also not be moved by the windows Disk Management
"shrink function". It can shrink to about 50% of the original partition
space, when a partition does not have a lot of files. In the "red line example"
at the bottom, the Disk Management will shrink to 50%, while other methods
will shrink to 33% or so. The shrinking process stops when it hits
that red line.
Generally, if the program doing the shrink is doing it in an offline
fashion, that gives much better control than when the Windows one attempts
to do it online ("hot" shrink). Thus, gparted can shrink the red line pane,
to the 33% number without too much delay.
It's the same with zeroing functions. The Windows third party tool is
"sdelete64.exe" and it zeros a partition while the partition remains
mounted. Whereas Linux "zerofree" does this same kind of function
on unmounted partitions.
One reason the Windows people like to show off with their
functions such as shrink, is they're implemented with the
data-safe defragmenter API. Which was originally written
by a third party, but was good enough for Microsoft to buy
it and put it in the OS as a library. Everybody and his dog
uses that library. It would be "extra work" for somebody
to write an offline version of the tool instead :-) The tool
that took the green pictures, also uses that library.
There's still plenty of room to work on those partitions.
On this sample data partition, this shows how the writer
is filling in the holes, and the two "air holes" are likely
a result of the reserved space handling. Again, being on an
SSD, no attempt has ever been made to defragment the thing.
And the green, is files which are contiguous and their
clusters are in cluster-order. The yellow ones are "largely ordered",
but as soon as one cluster goes out of line for such a file,
the whole file will be yellow. Considering "how evil" fragmentation
is, you don't see a lot of fragmentation there.
[Picture]
https://i.postimg.cc/wjRgwtLp/Sample-Data-Partition.gif
*******
This picture was done seven years ago. The top two panes are
performance on a RAMdrive. Running a checksum program on
a large file, one with a lot of fragments, one with no fragments,
there is hardly any speed difference to the performance of the
checksum program when we are measuring the file system stack
penalty for fragments.
[Picture} Top two panes = RAMDrive, bottom two panes = SATA SSD
https://i.postimg.cc/ry7VnwF7/fragmentation.gif
Whereas the bottom case, the seek time on an SSD could be 20 microseconds
or so. And then the SSD speed does have an impact on the read rate of
the checksumming process. When doing these experiments, you do a bit of
fiddling first to clear the System Read cache.
No attempt was made to run that on a HDD, as the results would
be quite bad on an HDD. The rattling noise that would make, would
get on my nerves.
And the pattern on the storage there, was done with a purpose-built
pathological tool. I wasn't doing my income taxes to make that pattern.
Regular disk usage does not fragment like that.
Is Windows cheating to make relatively good-looking partitions ?
It's possible. I do not normally see suspicious patterns of the
drive light, hinting that some rearranging is going on. The write
algo has changed since WinXP days, whatever it is. Leaving holes
in the cheese, seems to have something to do with later placing
small files in the holes.
Paul
Enjoy your posts Paul.
Just sayin'.
--
pothead

"Give a man a fish and you turn him into a Democrat for life"
"Teach a man to fish and he might become a self-sufficient conservative Republican"
"Don't underestimate Joe's ability to fuck things up,"
--- Barack H. Obama
-hh
2025-01-14 17:46:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by CrudeSausage
Post by Joel
Post by CrudeSausage
Post by MikeS
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Windows is a great OS -- if your time is worth
nothing.
So which OS do you choose to expend your valuable time on?
Linux is the only option worth pursuing.  macOS is weird and
expensive, Windows is bloatware beyond belief.
There's not much to pursue in MacOS. It works as it should and it is a
fairly pleasant experience. However, I would agree that it's expensive.
After a while, you'll need tools to do additional things and on MacOS,
you're going to be paying money in most cases. Open-source is available
for it too, mind you.
I just dislike Windows and macOS, it might be my own opinion but it's
right for me.
MacOS machines have a shelf life of about seven years before Apple
decides that your machine is no longer worth supporting with updates. As
we've seen, Windows machines get about seven, so it's a fair amount of
time. However, Linux has them both beat with unlimited support no matter
how pathetic the machine you're running it on is.
Fair points ... although it can also be worth mentioning that it
typically takes Linux awhile to get around to supporting the newest
gear, so its more along the lines of instead of support for Year 0
through Year 7, its more akin to support for Year ~3 to Year 15.

-hh
Carlos E.R.
2025-01-15 12:51:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by CrudeSausage
Post by Joel
Post by CrudeSausage
Post by MikeS
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Windows is a great OS -- if your time is worth
nothing.
So which OS do you choose to expend your valuable time on?
Linux is the only option worth pursuing.  macOS is weird and
expensive, Windows is bloatware beyond belief.
There's not much to pursue in MacOS. It works as it should and it is a
fairly pleasant experience. However, I would agree that it's expensive.
After a while, you'll need tools to do additional things and on MacOS,
you're going to be paying money in most cases. Open-source is available
for it too, mind you.
I just dislike Windows and macOS, it might be my own opinion but it's
right for me.
MacOS machines have a shelf life of about seven years before Apple
decides that your machine is no longer worth supporting with updates. As
we've seen, Windows machines get about seven, so it's a fair amount of
time. However, Linux has them both beat with unlimited support no matter
how pathetic the machine you're running it on is.
Hum. That is not completely true, either. Some distributions stopped
supporting 32 bit machines.

Each year you need more ram to run the same apps.

Proprietary drivers like NVidia stop publishing drivers for what they
think is old hardware, and the open source version doesn't have the full
feature set.

Modern videos use codecs that can not keep running fast enough on
pathetic machines.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
Paul
2025-01-15 14:58:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
MacOS machines have a shelf life of about seven years before Apple decides that your machine is no longer worth supporting with updates. As we've seen, Windows machines get about seven, so it's a fair amount of time. However, Linux has them both beat with unlimited support no matter how pathetic the machine you're running it on is.
Hum. That is not completely true, either. Some distributions stopped supporting 32 bit machines.
Each year you need more ram to run the same apps.
Proprietary drivers like NVidia stop publishing drivers for what they think is old hardware, and the open source version doesn't have the full feature set.
Modern videos use codecs that can not keep running fast enough on pathetic machines.
As long as the videos are coded in something that VAAPI or NVENC/NVDEC has,
the movie can be decoded for "almost free". For example, Intel Quicksync
has sufficient horsepower, to decode five video streams at the same time,
on the early instances of that hardware block.

Old machines and their older video cards without NVidia driver support, might no
longer have access to the built-in encoder/decoder hardware on the video card,
in which case the fallback software method would be used instead.

Another contributor to "pathetic", is the video decoding process can use a
"scaler" which changes a 720x576 decoded video, to whatever box size the
browser presents at the time (the wrapper frame). Doing a pixmap scaler
in software, used at least 30% of a P4 core. Whereas the hardware scaler
(driver support), could do a scaling operation "for free".

And finally, insisting on compositing as a system-wide way of doing things,
if the video card compositing is not working and the OS has to use fallback
code for that, that could take buckets of horsepower to do.

An old machine really needs the support. It isn't so much "pathetic" as it is
everything working against it. "All the items are leaning the wrong way."

The code path has had IDCT removed, so when an old machine has been
stripped of all its goodness, the code doesn't even use the IDCT
(Inverse Discrete Cosine transform for macroblocks). That is a method of
providing a slight acceleration, when forced to do video decode in software.
The older software used to use that, as it helped a bit with the decoding
process.

Paul
Carlos E.R.
2025-01-15 15:20:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Paul
MacOS machines have a shelf life of about seven years before Apple decides that your machine is no longer worth supporting with updates. As we've seen, Windows machines get about seven, so it's a fair amount of time. However, Linux has them both beat with unlimited support no matter how pathetic the machine you're running it on is.
Hum. That is not completely true, either. Some distributions stopped supporting 32 bit machines.
Each year you need more ram to run the same apps.
Proprietary drivers like NVidia stop publishing drivers for what they think is old hardware, and the open source version doesn't have the full feature set.
Modern videos use codecs that can not keep running fast enough on pathetic machines.
As long as the videos are coded in something that VAAPI or NVENC/NVDEC has,
the movie can be decoded for "almost free". For example, Intel Quicksync
has sufficient horsepower, to decode five video streams at the same time,
on the early instances of that hardware block.
Old machines and their older video cards without NVidia driver support, might no
longer have access to the built-in encoder/decoder hardware on the video card,
in which case the fallback software method would be used instead.
Another contributor to "pathetic", is the video decoding process can use a
"scaler" which changes a 720x576 decoded video, to whatever box size the
browser presents at the time (the wrapper frame). Doing a pixmap scaler
in software, used at least 30% of a P4 core. Whereas the hardware scaler
(driver support), could do a scaling operation "for free".
And finally, insisting on compositing as a system-wide way of doing things,
if the video card compositing is not working and the OS has to use fallback
code for that, that could take buckets of horsepower to do.
An old machine really needs the support. It isn't so much "pathetic" as it is
everything working against it. "All the items are leaning the wrong way."
The code path has had IDCT removed, so when an old machine has been
stripped of all its goodness, the code doesn't even use the IDCT
(Inverse Discrete Cosine transform for macroblocks). That is a method of
providing a slight acceleration, when forced to do video decode in software.
The older software used to use that, as it helped a bit with the decoding
process.
Right.

I have a mini PC that I use as server and to display movies in my computer room.

Isengard:~ # inxi -GSaz --vs
inxi 3.3.23-00 (2022-10-31)
System:
Kernel: 5.14.21-150500.55.88-default arch: x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc
v: 7.5.0 parameters: BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-5.14.21-150500.55.88-default
root=UUID=0d457df1-b43d-4587-aa5a-6c919bcbedb8 showopts splash=verbose
resume=/dev/disk/by-label/Swap verbose mitigations=auto
Desktop: Xfce v: 4.18.1 tk: Gtk v: 3.24.34 info: xfce4-panel wm: xfwm
v: 4.18.0 dm: SDDM Distro: openSUSE Leap 15.5
Graphics:
Device-1: Intel Atom/Celeron/Pentium Processor x5-E8000/J3xxx/N3xxx
Integrated Graphics vendor: Micro-Star MSI driver: i915 v: kernel
arch: Gen-8 process: Intel 14nm built: 2014-15 ports: active: HDMI-A-3
empty: DP-1, DP-2, DP-3, HDMI-A-1, HDMI-A-2 bus-ID: 00:02.0
chip-ID: 8086:22b1 class-ID: 0300
Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 1.21.1.4 with: Xwayland v: 22.1.5
compositor: xfwm v: 4.18.0 driver: X: loaded: intel dri: iris gpu: i915
display-ID: localhost:11.0 screens: 1
Screen-1: 0 s-res: 1920x1080 s-dpi: 96 s-size: 508x285mm (20.00x11.22")
s-diag: 582mm (22.93")
Monitor-1: HDMI-A-3 mapped: DVI-D-0 model: Samsung T22C350 built: 2012
res: 1920x1080 hz: 60 dpi: 92 gamma: 1.2 size: 531x298mm (20.91x11.73")
diag: 547mm (21.5") ratio: 16:9 modes: max: 1920x1080 min: 720x400
API: OpenGL v: 4.5 Mesa 22.3.5 renderer: llvmpipe (LLVM 15.0.7 128 bits)
direct render: Yes
Isengard:~ #


Well, there are movies that simply block, display one photo then get stuck. Maybe the audio keeps playing. I had to recode with ffmpeg on another machine in order to view them here.


YouTube, I can no longer display in full screen, because the image stutters. I can see the CPU load at about 90%.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
rbowman
2025-01-15 23:20:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Carlos E.R.
Hum. That is not completely true, either. Some distributions stopped
supporting 32 bit machines.
The only one I came across was Debian. The machine itself was 64-bit but
our legacy code was 32-bit, as was Esri's ArcObjects. I think Ubuntu 18.04
was the last release where you had a prayer of finding 32-bit Motif
libraries and others. It's all fine to pass the 32-bit flag to gcc but if
you can't link the libs you're done.
Carlos E.R.
2025-01-16 14:36:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by rbowman
Post by Carlos E.R.
Hum. That is not completely true, either. Some distributions stopped
supporting 32 bit machines.
The only one I came across was Debian. The machine itself was 64-bit but
our legacy code was 32-bit, as was Esri's ArcObjects. I think Ubuntu 18.04
was the last release where you had a prayer of finding 32-bit Motif
libraries and others. It's all fine to pass the 32-bit flag to gcc but if
you can't link the libs you're done.
openSUSE Tumbleweed still has a 32 bit version, I believe.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
rbowman
2025-01-17 00:12:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Carlos E.R.
Post by rbowman
Post by Carlos E.R.
Hum. That is not completely true, either. Some distributions stopped
supporting 32 bit machines.
The only one I came across was Debian. The machine itself was 64-bit
but our legacy code was 32-bit, as was Esri's ArcObjects. I think
Ubuntu 18.04 was the last release where you had a prayer of finding
32-bit Motif libraries and others. It's all fine to pass the 32-bit
flag to gcc but if you can't link the libs you're done.
openSUSE Tumbleweed still has a 32 bit version, I believe.
So it does. I don't know if I'd found it or if Debian was the first to
turn up and I used it. I probably still would have went with Debian. For a
production machine old, slow, stick-in-the-mud is good versus a rolling
distribution.
Chris
2025-01-15 18:09:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by CrudeSausage
Post by Joel
Post by CrudeSausage
Post by Joel
Post by MikeS
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Windows is a great OS -- if your time is worth
nothing.
So which OS do you choose to expend your valuable time on?
Linux is the only option worth pursuing. macOS is weird and
expensive, Windows is bloatware beyond belief.
There's not much to pursue in MacOS. It works as it should and it is a
fairly pleasant experience. However, I would agree that it's expensive.
After a while, you'll need tools to do additional things and on MacOS,
you're going to be paying money in most cases. Open-source is available
for it too, mind you.
I just dislike Windows and macOS, it might be my own opinion but it's
right for me.
MacOS machines have a shelf life of about seven years before Apple
decides that your machine is no longer worth supporting with updates. As
we've seen, Windows machines get about seven, so it's a fair amount of
time. However, Linux has them both beat with unlimited support no matter
how pathetic the machine you're running it on is.
Only if you're prepared to handroll backports etc. Realistically, linux is
also 5-7 years. Most LTS is 5 years.

The hardest thing is trying to keep gcc up to date. At some point too many
glibc dependencies break and you can't compile any new kernel updates.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2025-01-14 05:48:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by CrudeSausage
There's not much to pursue in MacOS. It works as it should and it is a
fairly pleasant experience.
It works the way the platform owner wants it to work. And they have a
particularly slick brainw^H^H^H^H^H^Hmarketing organization to “persuade”
customers to accept that they want it to work that way as well.
Hank Rogers
2025-01-13 22:48:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Joel
Post by MikeS
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by CrudeSausage
To remove the new Outlook app package after it's force installed on your
Windows device, you can use the Remove-AppxProvisionedPackage cmdlet
with the PackageName parameter value Microsoft.OutlookForWindows.
This can be done by running the following command from a Windows
[Blah blah hoyvin-glayvin blah blah]
This is why they say, Windows is a great OS -- if your time is worth
nothing.
So which OS do you choose to expend your valuable time on?
Linux is the only option worth pursuing. macOS is weird and
expensive, Windows is bloatware beyond belief.
I agree. Plus it also counts as a religion, so you don't have to waste
time going to church anymore.
rbowman
2025-01-13 23:54:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Hank Rogers
Post by MikeS
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by CrudeSausage
To remove the new Outlook app package after it's force installed on
your Windows device, you can use the Remove-AppxProvisionedPackage
cmdlet with the PackageName parameter value
Microsoft.OutlookForWindows.
This can be done by running the following command from a Windows
[Blah blah hoyvin-glayvin blah blah]
This is why they say, Windows is a great OS -- if your time is worth
nothing.
So which OS do you choose to expend your valuable time on?
Linux is the only option worth pursuing. macOS is weird and expensive,
Windows is bloatware beyond belief.
I agree. Plus it also counts as a religion, so you don't have to waste
time going to church anymore.
https://www.whycatholic.com/even-in-the-beginning-their-were-heretics/
saint-linus/
Chris
2025-01-15 11:33:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Joel
Post by MikeS
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by CrudeSausage
To remove the new Outlook app package after it's force installed on your
Windows device, you can use the Remove-AppxProvisionedPackage cmdlet
with the PackageName parameter value Microsoft.OutlookForWindows.
This can be done by running the following command from a Windows
[Blah blah hoyvin-glayvin blah blah]
This is why they say, Windows is a great OS -- if your time is worth
nothing.
So which OS do you choose to expend your valuable time on?
Linux is the only option worth pursuing. macOS is weird and
expensive, Windows is bloatware beyond belief.
macOS is free. Just needs a $600 mac to run it on.
Joel
2025-01-15 15:46:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Chris
Post by Joel
Linux is the only option worth pursuing. macOS is weird and
expensive, Windows is bloatware beyond belief.
macOS is free. Just needs a $600 mac to run it on.
Windows Home preinstalled on volume-produced gear is virtually free,
self-installed Linux completely free, but yes that "$600" you cite
isn't cheap for the device it buys. That OS upgrades are free is just
to incentivize buying/using an Apple device.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.
-hh
2025-01-15 16:33:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Joel
Post by Chris
Post by Joel
Linux is the only option worth pursuing. macOS is weird and
expensive, Windows is bloatware beyond belief.
macOS is free. Just needs a $600 mac to run it on.
Windows Home preinstalled on volume-produced gear is virtually free,
self-installed Linux completely free, but yes that "$600" you cite
isn't cheap for the device it buys. That OS upgrades are free is just
to incentivize buying/using an Apple device.
Where said "isn't cheap" $600 is ~half what Joel's already spent...

...or for when the Lady protests too much, after deducting off his
alleged $200 mistake of a second Windows OS license, roughly 50% less
($600 vs ($1150 - $200 = $950).

But don't let actual math get in one's way of a good narrative! /s


-hh
vallor
2025-01-15 17:02:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by -hh
Post by Joel
Post by Chris
Post by Joel
Linux is the only option worth pursuing. macOS is weird and
expensive, Windows is bloatware beyond belief.
macOS is free. Just needs a $600 mac to run it on.
Windows Home preinstalled on volume-produced gear is virtually free,
self-installed Linux completely free, but yes that "$600" you cite
isn't cheap for the device it buys. That OS upgrades are free is just
to incentivize buying/using an Apple device.
Where said "isn't cheap" $600 is ~half what Joel's already spent...
...or for when the Lady protests too much, after deducting off his
alleged $200 mistake of a second Windows OS license, roughly 50% less
($600 vs ($1150 - $200 = $950).
Having played the "buy a mac mini to get MacOS" game, I can tell
you that I was very disappointed.

The Mac Studio we have now is a few steps up, but it's not worth
what we paid for it. It's clunky, and the security policies on
it are one-offs. It's a UNIX system, but they've bolted on extras
that are downright unfriendly.

Meanwhile Mrs. vallor's new workstation is still waiting in the wings;
turns out, she expanded the scope of "make a space on her desk"
into "re-organize her office". ;)

fu2: cola
--
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
OS: Linux 6.12.9 Release: Mint 21.3 Mem: 258G
"Linux is obsolete" -Andrew Tanenbaum
-hh
2025-01-15 17:33:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by vallor
Post by -hh
Post by Joel
Post by Chris
Post by Joel
Linux is the only option worth pursuing. macOS is weird and
expensive, Windows is bloatware beyond belief.
macOS is free. Just needs a $600 mac to run it on.
Windows Home preinstalled on volume-produced gear is virtually free,
self-installed Linux completely free, but yes that "$600" you cite
isn't cheap for the device it buys. That OS upgrades are free is just
to incentivize buying/using an Apple device.
Where said "isn't cheap" $600 is ~half what Joel's already spent...
...or for when the Lady protests too much, after deducting off his
alleged $200 mistake of a second Windows OS license, roughly 50% less
($600 vs ($1150 - $200 = $950).
Having played the "buy a mac mini to get MacOS" game, I can tell
you that I was very disappointed.
IMO the mini had historically been Apple's product to promote desktop
customers to migrate from Windows, but its shortcomings have centered
around how 90% of the market ignored it because it wasn't a laptop, and
the other 10% are tower fetish geeks who were offended because it
couldn't easily address every possible niche/corner use case.
Post by vallor
The Mac Studio we have now is a few steps up, but it's not worth
what we paid for it.
The Studio's now two months from being 3 years old, and pretty much all
its gotten to date has been a CPU bump. It was envisioned as the being
a midpoint between the mini & Mac Pro, effectively a replacement for the
iMac Pro, whose MSRP started at $5K.
Post by vallor
It's clunky, and the security policies on
it are one-offs. It's a UNIX system, but they've bolted on extras
that are downright unfriendly.
Just which security policies are so constraining? Likewise, are these
so-called 'unfriendly' elements something which affects the Pareto
Principle 80% use case, or is it more akin to a niche/corner use case?
Post by vallor
Meanwhile Mrs. vallor's new workstation is still waiting in the wings;
turns out, she expanded the scope of "make a space on her desk"
into "re-organize her office". ;)
fu2: cola
Good for her. Let me know if you're going to then be selling the
Studio, as I'd not mind picking up another one at the right specs/price.

-hh
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2025-01-16 05:40:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by -hh
IMO the mini had historically been Apple's product to promote desktop
customers to migrate from Windows, but its shortcomings have centered
around how 90% of the market ignored it because it wasn't a laptop, and
the other 10% are tower fetish geeks who were offended because it
couldn't easily address every possible niche/corner use case.
Everything Apple sells in its “Macintosh” range is effectively a laptop
now, just packaged differently. In its move to ARM chips, it has
completely sacrificed all the traditional expandability that came with
desktop/workstation machines.
-hh
2025-01-16 11:27:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by -hh
IMO the mini had historically been Apple's product to promote desktop
customers to migrate from Windows, but its shortcomings have centered
around how 90% of the market ignored it because it wasn't a laptop, and
the other 10% are tower fetish geeks who were offended because it
couldn't easily address every possible niche/corner use case.
Everything Apple sells in its “Macintosh” range is effectively a laptop
now, just packaged differently. In its move to ARM chips, it has
completely sacrificed all the traditional expandability that came with
desktop/workstation machines.
Yeah, so?

Over 80% of the total PC market today are laptops.

The old school paradigm of getting elbows-deep into component upgrades
is a niche that's going to continue to be considered irrelevant by the
mainstream: I've already seen some components whose prices are far
higher than what they _should_ be, as state-of-the-shelf commodities.


-hh
Joel
2025-01-15 19:32:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by -hh
Post by Joel
Post by Chris
Post by Joel
Linux is the only option worth pursuing. macOS is weird and
expensive, Windows is bloatware beyond belief.
macOS is free. Just needs a $600 mac to run it on.
Windows Home preinstalled on volume-produced gear is virtually free,
self-installed Linux completely free, but yes that "$600" you cite
isn't cheap for the device it buys. That OS upgrades are free is just
to incentivize buying/using an Apple device.
Where said "isn't cheap" $600 is ~half what Joel's already spent...
...or for when the Lady protests too much, after deducting off his
alleged $200 mistake of a second Windows OS license, roughly 50% less
($600 vs ($1150 - $200 = $950).
But don't let actual math get in one's way of a good narrative! /s
You keep including my monitor or video card or something, those were
choice add-ons that I could've trivially avoided with another HD
monitor.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.
-hh
2025-01-15 20:52:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Joel
Post by -hh
Post by Joel
Post by Chris
Post by Joel
Linux is the only option worth pursuing. macOS is weird and
expensive, Windows is bloatware beyond belief.
macOS is free. Just needs a $600 mac to run it on.
Windows Home preinstalled on volume-produced gear is virtually free,
self-installed Linux completely free, but yes that "$600" you cite
isn't cheap for the device it buys. That OS upgrades are free is just
to incentivize buying/using an Apple device.
Where said "isn't cheap" $600 is ~half what Joel's already spent...
...or for when the Lady protests too much, after deducting off his
alleged $200 mistake of a second Windows OS license, roughly 50% less
($600 vs ($1150 - $200 = $950).
But don't let actual math get in one's way of a good narrative! /s
You keep including my monitor or video card or something, those were
choice add-ons that I could've trivially avoided with another HD
monitor.
Monitor? Nope.

Video Card? Yup: because you said that even though you'd researched
your gear, you quickly realized that you screwed up as the i5's included
one was inadequate for your desires. But even if we subtract off the
$100 you spent here, its still $600 vs your $850 spent

But do feel free to provide a detailed cost list.

Because even the $100 you spent on the video card is subtracted off too,
your $850 spent is still higher than $600, but now its only by +30%.


-hh
Paul
2025-01-16 01:34:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Joel
Post by -hh
Post by Joel
Post by Chris
Linux is the only option worth pursuing.  macOS is weird and
expensive, Windows is bloatware beyond belief.
macOS is free. Just needs a $600 mac to run it on.
Windows Home preinstalled on volume-produced gear is virtually free,
self-installed Linux completely free, but yes that "$600" you cite
isn't cheap for the device it buys.  That OS upgrades are free is just
to incentivize buying/using an Apple device.
Where said "isn't cheap" $600 is ~half what Joel's already spent...
...or for when the Lady protests too much, after deducting off his
alleged $200 mistake of a second Windows OS license, roughly 50% less
($600 vs ($1150 - $200 = $950).
But don't let actual math get in one's way of a good narrative!  /s
You keep including my monitor or video card or something, those were
choice add-ons that I could've trivially avoided with another HD
monitor.
Monitor?  Nope.
Video Card?  Yup:  because you said that even though you'd researched your gear, you quickly realized that you screwed up as the i5's included one was inadequate for your desires.  But even if we subtract off the $100 you spent here, its still $600 vs your $850 spent
But do feel free to provide a detailed cost list.
Because even the $100 you spent on the video card is subtracted off too, your $850 spent is still higher than $600, but now its only by +30%.
-hh
But you have control of your expenses.

It all depends on your objectives and budget.

An upgrade could be $500 or it could be $2000.

If you build your own computers, you can reuse
PSU, computer case (my daily driver case is 25 years old),
keyboard, mouse, and so on. My daily driver case, I think
that's about the fourth motherboard.

An upgrade can be mobo, CPU, RAM.
Maybe $200 for mobo, $100 for some RAM, $150 for CPU.
It wouldn't be much of an upgrade, but it would depend
on what you were driving previously.

The trick to hitting points like this, is to look
at trailing-edge parts. When the kids are buying DDR5
systems, you buy a DDR4 system. As long as the market
has some legs, a few reduced-cost motherboards will be
issued in a second wave (intended to "mop up" the
old processors), offering a small savings. The RAM can
be cheaper to quite a lot cheaper, than the current generation
RAM (DDR5).

The CPUs start off strong on price, but if you wait
long enough, the price of the lower end ones comes down.
The apex processor, the price does not usually drop
enough to make that an option for a budget consumer.

As long as the CPU has an iGPU, that "reduces the video card
tax on building a system". I have a 5600G and a 5700G, and
those have an iGPU. Can I play Crysis at 30FPS. No.
I can only play solitaire on those. They have movie decoders,
so movie playback does not load the machine at all.

To get the top CPU clock speed, you usually end up buying a
lot of cores you might not have wanted or needed. They don't
usually make 2 core CPUS that run at 6GHz. If they did, we
would buy those... because they would be very useful and
offer a "kick" the normal spread of CPUs does not offer.

You can use the Windows OS with the infinite grace period
if you want, or you can get one of those $20 licenses off
the Internet instead. Some people in the newsgroup here, have
partaken of the bargain items. No particular drama to mention.
Sometimes one of those keys does not work, but the merchant
doesn't usually make a fuss and another key will be sent.

*******

The enthusiast sites have more info, if you need it.

https://www.tomshardware.com/best-picks/best-pc-builds-gaming

Paul
Physfitfreak
2025-01-16 06:41:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Paul
The enthusiast sites have more info, if you need it.
https://www.tomshardware.com/best-picks/best-pc-builds-gaming
$500 computer is a "budget" computer these days? Hehe :)

What do you guys do with your computers? I bet you grab it tight and it
takes you with it to a Jupiter flyby. Hahhahhahh :-)

Well, nothing wrong with enthusiasm, but enthusiasm is different from
fooling yourselves. Be mindful of the trap that the _less_ you might
need a computer to begin with, the more your brains may want to trick
you into paying high prices for it to somehow fill that void, making it
look like something worthwhile is getting done.

I've seen such mind tricks among gun lovers also. Even in those Shoe
freaks.

$1500 for a pair of sneakers..
-hh
2025-01-16 11:42:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Physfitfreak
Post by Paul
The enthusiast sites have more info, if you need it.
https://www.tomshardware.com/best-picks/best-pc-builds-gaming
$500 computer is a "budget" computer these days? Hehe :)
Sure is.

In 1981, IBM's original PC 5150 debuted at $2,880 for a 64K system with
one floppy drive. In today's dollars, that would be a shade over $10K.

Back in that era, PC Magazine's editor Bill Machrone quipped:
"the computer you want always costs $5,000."

And 1984's price buster of the TI-99/4A started at $525. What
percentage of your gross monthly pay was $525 back in 1984?
Don't know about you, but for me, it would've been around 33%.


-hh
Farley Flud
2025-01-16 21:38:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
in reality I was conducting a tough as well as
quite challenging life in graduate school).
Bravo.

These fucking COLA losers could never hope to imagine what
rigorous graduate school, especially in STEM, is like.

They are all pampered academic losers.
--
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.
DFS
2025-01-16 23:33:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Farley Flud
These fucking COLA losers could never hope to imagine what
rigorous graduate school, especially in STEM, is like.
You must've gotten Ds in your programming courses, if you took any at all.
Physfitfreak
2025-01-16 21:44:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
I don't need a $5000 computer for any reason under the sky, not even a
$500 computer. Those who need them must want to do a Jupiter flyby :)
Here, this will help you do a Jupiter flyby.

Go to the site and click on play button.

https://thiazitch.bandcamp.com/track/-
Physfitfreak
2025-01-16 21:51:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Physfitfreak
I don't need a $5000 computer for any reason under the sky, not even a
$500 computer. Those who need them must want to do a Jupiter flyby :)
Here, this will help you do a Jupiter flyby.
Go to the site and click on play button.
https://thiazitch.bandcamp.com/track/-
This one is what Relf and his super special computer is riding on right
now. Join him. It will go past the edge of the Solar system.

https://thiazitch.bandcamp.com/track/--5
Physfitfreak
2025-01-16 22:11:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Physfitfreak
I don't need a $5000 computer for any reason under the sky, not even a
$500 computer. Those who need them must want to do a Jupiter flyby :)
Here, this will help you do a Jupiter flyby.
Go to the site and click on play button.
https://thiazitch.bandcamp.com/track/-
Don't forget to place that "/-" at the end of your link cause the link I
provided omits the dash.
-hh
2025-01-17 03:40:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
but $25K today buys a new Civic or another "budget" car.
$25K car is a "budget" car these days? Hehe :-)
New car, just like how the conversation was originally about new PCs.


And yes, 'budget' in the context of new car prices, since Edmunds' 3Q24
report found that the average new car in the USA cost $47,542.

And FYI, average used car price was $27,177.
The last car I bought is a Toyota Echo 2002, in 2017, for $1600.
Bully for you. Did it include a radio? My first car didn't.


-hh
-hh
2025-01-16 11:22:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Paul
Post by -hh
...
But do feel free to provide a detailed cost list.
Because even the $100 you spent on the video card is
subtracted off too, your $850 spent is still higher
than $600, but now its only by +30%.
But you have control of your expenses.
And freedom to make mistakes which can cost you more.
Post by Paul
It all depends on your objectives and budget.
An upgrade could be $500 or it could be $2000.
Post by -hh
If you build your own computers, you can reuse
PSU, computer case (my daily driver case is 25 years old),
keyboard, mouse, and so on. My daily driver case, I think
that's about the fourth motherboard.
Sure, there can be reuse, but with laptops now 80% of the PC market,
this use case is increasingly niche.

And in the 'mistakes' lane, over-reliance on recycling old stuff can
gimp a system, which undermines the value of the upgrade effort.

Plus some costs aren't all that significant to worry too much about.
For example, if one wants to keep the old build running in parallel with
the new, then having a case & PSU for each is inexpensive and makes it
quite convenient... but that choice reduces the cost savings.
Post by Paul
The trick to hitting points like this, is to look
at trailing-edge parts. When the kids are buying DDR5
systems, you buy a DDR4 system. As long as the market
has some legs, a few reduced-cost motherboards will be
issued in a second wave (intended to "mop up" the
old processors), offering a small savings. The RAM can
be cheaper to quite a lot cheaper, than the current generation
RAM (DDR5).
Sure, and the same "state of the shelf" sweet spot applies when shopping
for a complete system too.
Post by Paul
The enthusiast sites have more info, if you need it.
Of course. Overall, a challenge with the DIY topic is differences in
motivation: is the DIY because money's tight? Or is the motivation
because tinkering with hardware is an entertaining hobby/pastime?
Both motivations can & do exist, and can get conflated in discussions.


-hh
Paul
2025-01-16 17:10:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Of course.  Overall, a challenge with the DIY topic is differences in motivation:  is the DIY because money's tight?  Or is the motivation because tinkering with hardware is an entertaining hobby/pastime?
Both motivations can & do exist, and can get conflated in discussions.
The motivation, is we don't want to buy shit.

Do I want a Dell with a four phase VCore, when
I can have a twenty four phase VCore on an
expensive motherboard ?

Do I want a 230W power supply on a Dell, when
I can pick up an 850W power supply at Best Buy ?
Now, I can plug in an RTX4090 when I want to.
On the Dell, that's... impossible (even if you
went out and bought the 850W supply, it probably
would not fit in the small Dell case, neither would
the Dell cooling system be adequate for the thermal
load and there wouldn't even be a mounting location
for a fan to be added).

When you do a build, you control everything, and
no screwing around or taking shortcuts.

Let's take an example, Mr.LaptopMan. Take the lady
in the computer store the other day, a salesman
explaining to her that "the laptop with the 4070
is faster than the laptop with the 4060" for gaming.
Well, what the salesman didn't tell the gaming lady,
is that the owner will beat the piss out of the laptop
and it will be knackered after only four years. While you
are having a gaming experience, it won't last.

Whereas, with a desktop, if I wear the keycaps off my
keyboard playing Tetris, I just swap keyboards, takes
about ten seconds. If the video cards burns the
connector off, chuck it on the table, pop in another.

And if I want four NVMe storage, I can pop in a board
with four sleds on it, and boom, done.

With this, I could install twenty four NVMe on six cards.

"Asus Pro WS W790E-SAGE SE"

https://dlcdnwebimgs.asus.com/gain/f8c9b3f4-1a07-4645-aa79-594c48bd4090/w692

(Note desktop I/O style on the left)

Loading Image...

Same idea with an AMD processor. For a while, only Lenovo made
materials of this class, but now you can build them at home.

https://shop.asus.com/ca-en/90mb1fw0-m0aay0-pro-ws-wrx90e-sage-se.html

You're in control of the build. If something breaks,
you're in control of the repair too. No returning a unit
three times, hearing "no fault found", haranguing tech
support for a replacement machine and so on. Think of
the hair loss saved.

I don't want to use anyones "warranty service".

[Picture]

Loading Image...

Paul
Mark Lloyd
2025-01-16 18:45:56 UTC
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On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 12:10:33 -0500, Paul wrote:

[snip]
Post by Paul
You're in control of the build. If something breaks,
you're in control of the repair too. No returning a unit three times,
hearing "no fault found", haranguing tech support for a replacement
machine and so on. Think of the hair loss saved.
There was one night when I was up, that I discovered that my main computer
wasn't working. I little testing showed it was the power supply that had
failed. I replaced it and everything was OK. That PC was "out of action"
for a couple of hours. If I had depended on a store to fix it, I would
probably had gotten that new PS, along with having to explain a very non-
standard software setup, waiting a couple of weeks (or more), and spending
a couple of days recreating the software configuration they had messed up.
Post by Paul
I don't want to use anyones "warranty service".
[Picture]
https://i.postimg.cc/ry0VWG7J/home-build-what-you-want.gif
Paul
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"SENILE.COM found. Out Of Memory."
-hh
2025-01-16 21:05:27 UTC
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Post by Paul
Of course.  Overall, a challenge with the DIY topic is
differences in motivation:  is the DIY because money's tight?
Or is the motivation because tinkering with hardware is an
entertaining hobby/pastime?
Both motivations can & do exist, and can get conflated in discussions.
The motivation, is we don't want to buy shit.
One does that by not buying junk brands, which has nothing to do with if
one is components or complete systems.
Post by Paul
Do I want a Dell with a four phase VCore, when
I can have a twenty four phase VCore on an
expensive motherboard ?
Do I want a 230W power supply on a Dell, when
I can pick up an 850W power supply at Best Buy ?
Now, I can plug in an RTX4090 when I want to.
On the Dell, that's... impossible (even if you
went out and bought the 850W supply, it probably
would not fit in the small Dell case, neither would
the Dell cooling system be adequate for the thermal
load and there wouldn't even be a mounting location
for a fan to be added).
That's a criticism of Dell, not of all PC system manufacturers.
Post by Paul
When you do a build, you control everything, and
no screwing around or taking shortcuts.
Doing all of in in-house is taking the "longcut", plus you've
effectively adopted all possible repair & warranty headaches too. When
the costs are significant, its not a trade-off to casually commit to.
Post by Paul
Let's take an example, Mr.LaptopMan.
Okay, Mr Logical_Fallacy_Man, because noting that the marketplace
reality is that 80% buy laptops now isn't an endorsement of that fact
that should get you upset and slinging lame Ad Hominems.
Post by Paul
Take the lady
in the computer store the other day, a salesman
explaining to her that "the laptop with the 4070
is faster than the laptop with the 4060" for gaming.
Well, what the salesman didn't tell the gaming lady,
is that the owner will beat the piss out of the laptop
and it will be knackered after only four years. While you
are having a gaming experience, it won't last.
Whereas, with a desktop, if I wear the keycaps off my
keyboard playing Tetris, I just swap keyboards, takes
about ten seconds. If the video cards burns the
connector off, chuck it on the table, pop in another.
When the customer wants a laptop, offering a desktop solution is
inappropriate & will be disregarded.

Consider a guy going into a dealership to buy a sports car to race on
the track on weekends: a you really going to try to tell him that his
needs are all wrong and he should buy a big old truck instead because it
can haul more manure?
Post by Paul
And if I want four NVMe storage, I can pop in a board
with four sleds on it, and boom, done.
Or buy one of these for a laptop...boom:


OWC Express 4M2 - Four-Slot Thunderbolt (40Gb/s) NVMe M.2 SSD Enclosure
for NVMe M.2 2280 SSDs

<https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/express-4m2>

OWC Express 4M2 - Four-Slot Thunderbolt (40Gb/s) NVMe M.2 SSD Enclosure
for NVMe M.2 2280 SSDs
Post by Paul
With this, I could install twenty four NVMe on six cards.
"Asus Pro WS W790E-SAGE SE"
https://dlcdnwebimgs.asus.com/gain/f8c9b3f4-1a07-4645-aa79-594c48bd4090/w692
(Note desktop I/O style on the left)
https://dlcdnwebimgs.asus.com/files/media/35d86ad4-c99a-49d7-b8bb-09601ad49164/images/swiper_left.png
Sure, but that's just a niche of a niche. And since Thunderbolt can
daisy-chain a half dozen devices per port, 6x4 = 24 NMVE's too.

Now to escape from niche corner cases, contemplate how many TB of SSD
storage users actually have, applying the Parato Principle to determine
what the ~80% max capability required use case solution is. YMMV, but I
doubt its more than 4TB.
Post by Paul
You're in control of the build. If something breaks,
you're in control of the repair too. No returning a unit
three times, hearing "no fault found", haranguing tech
support for a replacement machine and so on. Think of
the hair loss saved.
You very well may have little to no choice other than to try to fix it
yourself. What shops will even touch a DIY build these days?

FWIW, I had a conversation with a shop owner two weeks ago on servicing
some old sports gear I have and his response was that he's discontinued
it because the revenue's no longer worth the liability exposure risk.
Post by Paul
I don't want to use anyones "warranty service".
You may not have much choice in the matter anymore.

YMMV, but I recognize that there's value in having the option of DIYing
themselves, or delegating the headache to someone else to service.


-hh
Paul
2025-01-17 04:47:38 UTC
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Permalink
I think us DIY guys tend to overspend and overbuild our systems. So we
don't save any money, but they are better-built.
I keep looking at the Antec Sonata case gathering dust and think I should
do something with it. The case is probably as obsolete as whatever is in
it. It does have an upgraded PS since the heavily hyped Antec PS was one
of a batch with a high failure rate.
Then reality sets in. What would I do with it? I'm not a gamer. That
reality set in when the video card failed and all I could find in the
local shops were Hyper-Phaze Mark 7 Dual Thrusters that were about $200
more than I was going to pay for a generic card.
That's a fine case. I own two of them. One of them seems to be older
than the other, and the older one has weird slots for the addin cards.
You can't add a two-slot wide video card, because a "bump" on the inside
side of the case, conflicts with the two-slot-wide flat faceplate on the video card.

But other than that, it has the excellent trays system. One generation
of trays has black rubber cushions (not very thick), and the later one
is silicone rubber and a bit thicker.

The holes in the tray support legacy drives (like up to 6TB in capacity).
The Helium drives (up to 24TB) have the holes in a different place. One
guy on the Internet, used his 3D printer to make an Antec compatible tray
with the holes in the correct place for the Helium drives. But I don't have
any of those, so the 6TB is about the largest drive I can use in that PC
(without using the inconvenient 5.25" bays in the top front).

The Test Machine (ten years old), the trays have been sliding in and out
of that thing for ten years. The SATA cables see a lot of use.

I would not throw the Antec away. If anything, put it up on Ebay (with trays)
and sell it to someone who likes those.

For those who don't know about the trays, they slide out towards you,
and compared to the hell of mounting drives in 5.25" bays, they are
a dream to use. You still use four screws to fit the tray to the
drive, but that's not hard to do, and I keep a Philips head screwdriver
on the desk, to change drives.

Don't use the USB2 ports on the Sonata case, because the wiring is
a bit off on those. Antec didn't seem to have someone with an electrical
background, to verify their front panel connectors. Buzz out the wiring on
the assembly, and see if you can spot the swap. Fortunately, they
never reversed VCC and GND on their wiring, so there were no "fireworks".

Paul

Frank Slootweg
2025-01-16 14:12:41 UTC
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I think people are better off to get some type of imaging software ...
On Linux systems, rsync works well. It?s essentially a bulk file-copying
utility. That?s all you need to backup/restore Linux systems.
(Partition/disk) Imaging software is for bare-metal restores, mostly
for restoring the OS, programs, settings, etc.. It's not file-level
backup [1]. Two completely different animals and one is no replacement
for the other.

But indeed, you don't *need* imaging software, if you're willing to
re-install the OS, etc. if needed.

[1] But most imaging packages can also do file-level restores.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2025-01-17 00:08:22 UTC
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File-copying software like rsync is quite sufficient for doing
“bare-metal restores” on Linux.
Not for restoring grub.
After the bulk file copy (with rsync or other tool), you need to fix up
two things:

1) /etc/fstab with the new volume UUIDs
2) reinstall grub

That’s it. I have successfully migrated bootable systems many times using
this procedure.
Carlos E.R.
2025-01-17 01:00:51 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
File-copying software like rsync is quite sufficient for doing
“bare-metal restores” on Linux.
Not for restoring grub.
After the bulk file copy (with rsync or other tool), you need to fix up
1) /etc/fstab with the new volume UUIDs
No. I want the old UUIDs and labels.
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2) reinstall grub
I don't want to.


And you forget rebuilding initrd, which holds a copy of fstab. And you
forget that there are encrypted partitions.
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
That’s it. I have successfully migrated bootable systems many times using
this procedure.
I know. Me too.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2025-01-17 02:46:44 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Carlos E.R.
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
After the bulk file copy (with rsync or other tool), you need to fix up
1) /etc/fstab with the new volume UUIDs
No. I want the old UUIDs and labels.
I don’t care.
Post by Carlos E.R.
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2) reinstall grub
I don't want to.
I don’t care that you don’t.
Post by Carlos E.R.
And you forget rebuilding initrd, which holds a copy of fstab.
No it doesn’t.
Post by Carlos E.R.
And you forget that there are encrypted partitions.
Never bothered with that. These were servers on the customer’s LAN.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2025-01-17 00:08:57 UTC
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A complete solution, these are some of the things it does.
Unnecessary.
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