GNOME/Freedesktop Incompetent Assholes

[Farley Flud]

Note: This post is for GNU/Linux experts only. If you are just another
distro lackey then, please, fuck off.

Today, I invoked the Pan newsreader. It would not fucking scroll
with the mouse wheel. What the friggin' fuck?

Also, some other GUI programs would not scroll.

I've had this problem before, and, sure enough, it was libinput,
a product of GNOME/Freedesktop that was the fault.

Once again, those incompetent assholes changed their device numbers:

xinput list-props 8
...
libinput Send Events Modes Available (270): 1, 0
libinput Send Events Mode Enabled (271): 0, 0
libinput Send Events Mode Enabled Default (272): 0, 0
...

They changed the "Send Events Mode Enabled" from 269 to 271.

What the fuck for? Only those incompetent assholes will know.

In my X/FVWM3 boot I have to change it to:

xinput --set-prop 8 271 1 0

Why no fucking advanced notice? Only those incompetent assholes will know.

GNOME/Freedesktop are the scourge of GNU/Linux. Those bastards are
just as bad as SYSTEMD -- and that's bad!

But the stupified distro lackey won't even bat an eye. These useless
creeps will just use their Ubuntu/Mint/Whatever without an inkling
into the degeneration wrought by these incompetent assholes.

[Chris Ahlstrom]

<k00ksnip>

Lighten up dude. Roll with it. Let it go.

[Joel]

Post by Chris Ahlstrom

<k00ksnip>

Lighten up dude. Roll with it. Let it go.

+1
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

[Joel]

Post by Farley Flud
This post is for GNU/Linux experts only. If you are just another
distro lackey then, please, fuck off.

"Distro lackeys" are just trying to get the most out of a modern
machine, dummy. LFS/Gentoo don't really offer that, unless one takes
some initiative to assemble it. You have failed, miserably, to do
anything approaching that.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

[DFS]

Post by Farley Flud
Today, I invoked the Pan newsreader. It would not fucking scroll
with the mouse wheel. What the friggin' fuck?
Also, some other GUI programs would not scroll.

If you weren't a "GUI pussy" you wouldn't care.


Regardless, GuhNoo crapware is like that: yesterday it worked, today it
doesn't.

[Phillip Frabott]

Post by Farley Flud
Note: This post is for GNU/Linux experts only. If you are just another
distro lackey then, please, fuck off.
Today, I invoked the Pan newsreader. It would not fucking scroll
with the mouse wheel. What the friggin' fuck?
Also, some other GUI programs would not scroll.
I've had this problem before, and, sure enough, it was libinput,
a product of GNOME/Freedesktop that was the fault.
xinput list-props 8
...
libinput Send Events Modes Available (270): 1, 0
libinput Send Events Mode Enabled (271): 0, 0
libinput Send Events Mode Enabled Default (272): 0, 0
...
They changed the "Send Events Mode Enabled" from 269 to 271.
What the fuck for? Only those incompetent assholes will know.
xinput --set-prop 8 271 1 0
Why no fucking advanced notice? Only those incompetent assholes will know.
GNOME/Freedesktop are the scourge of GNU/Linux. Those bastards are
just as bad as SYSTEMD -- and that's bad!
But the stupified distro lackey won't even bat an eye. These useless
creeps will just use their Ubuntu/Mint/Whatever without an inkling
into the degeneration wrought by these incompetent assholes.

I wouldn't call myself a GNU/Linux expert by any means, but I build my
system up from source code and never use a package manager so hopefully
that counts for something.

I completely understand what you mean. I tried GNOME for a while way
back in the day but after a while of updates to the source causing
issues, I finally had enough after 3-4 years of it. So I stopped using
GNOME. I haven't touched it in a long time. Sounds like nothing has
changed. I did use KDE for a bit. It's still installed on my system but
I mostly CLI everything I can and only startx when I absolutely need to
(which isn't very often for the work I do). A lot of their broken
updates don't make since. But you know, GNOME hasn't really been known
for being very organized or making good decisions. Sure, they have a lot
of good features in the product, but sometimes you just have to scratch
your head and say what the hell were they thinking.

[vallor]

On Mon, 7 Oct 2024 22:09:59 -0400, Phillip Frabott

Post by Farley Flud
Note: This post is for GNU/Linux experts only. If you are just another
distro lackey then, please, fuck off.
Today, I invoked the Pan newsreader. It would not fucking scroll with
the mouse wheel. What the friggin' fuck?
Also, some other GUI programs would not scroll.
I've had this problem before, and, sure enough, it was libinput,
a product of GNOME/Freedesktop that was the fault.
xinput list-props 8 ...
libinput Send Events Modes Available (270): 1, 0 libinput
Send Events Mode Enabled (271): 0, 0 libinput Send
Events Mode Enabled Default (272): 0, 0
...
They changed the "Send Events Mode Enabled" from 269 to 271.
What the fuck for? Only those incompetent assholes will know.
xinput --set-prop 8 271 1 0

Yer an idiot.

"Gee, how can we guard against the enums changing?"

$ cat game_kbd.sh
#!/bin/bash

xinput set-prop 'ASUF1204:00 2808:0104 Touchpad' \
'libinput Disable While Typing Enabled' 0
exit $?

_ _ _ _ _ _ _

Like that, dipwit.

(Sorry to piggy-back on your post, Phillip -- Lester
Del Dumb lives in my kf. I will pull him out for a while,
but I'm sure that won't last.)

[Farley Flud]

Post by vallor
Yer an idiot.
xinput set-prop 'ASUF1204:00 2808:0104 Touchpad' \
'libinput Disable While Typing Enabled' 0
exit $?

Nope. You are the idiot.

_I_ am a REAL MAN PROGRAMMER, which means I program only
in assembly language and I don't use silly strings as
variables or addresses.

REAL MEN PROGRAMMERS use only hexadecimal. Silly strings
are for pussies, pansies, faggots, and queers.

I live, breathe, eat, drink, piss, and shit hexadecimal.

If someone asks me for my phone number I give it to them
in hex. If someone wants my home address they will get it
in hex. If the IRS demands my Social Security number I'll
give it in hex.

Even my name I will write out in hex code.

For the REAL MAN PROGRAMMER there are no silly strings but
only virulent numbers.

The case is forever closed.

[DFS]

Post by Farley Flud
_I_ am a REAL MAN PROGRAMMER

That can't even write a few lines of python without choking.

[vallor]

Post by Farley Flud
xinput --set-prop 8 271 1 0

As I wrote elsewhere: you're doing it wrong.

$ cat game_kbd.sh
#!/bin/bash

xinput set-prop 'ASUF1204:00 2808:0104 Touchpad' \
'libinput Disable While Typing Enabled' 0
exit $?

Rather than using the numbers, use the string
constants -- they are less likely to change.

[candycanearter07]

Post by vallor

Post by Farley Flud
xinput --set-prop 8 271 1 0

As I wrote elsewhere: you're doing it wrong.
$ cat game_kbd.sh
#!/bin/bash
xinput set-prop 'ASUF1204:00 2808:0104 Touchpad' \
'libinput Disable While Typing Enabled' 0
exit $?
Rather than using the numbers, use the string
constants -- they are less likely to change.

Good to know, thanks. If only the monitor id's would stop changing..

[tom]

On Tue, 8 Oct 2024 19:40:04 -0000 (UTC)

Post by candycanearter07
Good to know, thanks. If only the monitor id's would stop changing..

I've been switching to FreeBSD for most of my computers (laptop and
servers) because of the systemd assumption debacle and updates bring
frivolous changes for the sake of change that break things.

If these sorts of things upset you that much (which is reasonable);
perhaps consider stop using software that has too much redhat
influence. Gnome stuff being funded by redhat, not just systemd. If you
follow the money on a lot of the stuff that has been plaguing the Linux
ecosystem these last couple of years you'll find in a lot of cases it
pointing back to redhat.

Part of the problem (and feature) of the Linux ecosystem is that every
system component is made by a completely different person/team/company
with different, often conflicting design goals.

You can get away from the FreeDesktop stuff by stop using desktop
environments and learn how to configure a compact window manager that
doesn't rely on FreeDesktop stuff. Things like suckless's DWM is fairly
capable and written in less then 2000 lines of C. You can modify it
yourself to add keybindings for things like media buttons and whatnot
without relying on freedesktop.

Bottom line is, you can get X11/*nix from places other then Linux
nowadays.

[Farley Flud]

Post by tom
I've been switching to FreeBSD for most of my computers (laptop and
servers) because of the systemd assumption debacle and updates bring
frivolous changes for the sake of change that break things.

I have been considering that move as well, but I have so much invested
in GNU/Linux already (I have essentially created my own distro) that
it may not be the best option at the moment.

But if the dominance of GNU/Linux by a few parties continues to
grow then I will certainly adopt FreeBSD.

The best that could happen would be for GNU to complete its own
HURD OS, but that dream is a long way off.

Post by tom
If these sorts of things upset you that much (which is reasonable);
perhaps consider stop using software that has too much redhat
influence.

I don't use GNOME but rather only a simple window manager, FVWM3.

The problem here is that libinput, a product of GNOME/Freedesktop/
RedHat, has become the default input driver for X. There is no
way for anyone to avoid it.

It all can be traced back to static device nodes, which are indisputably
the most efficient way to configure a personal workstation.

RedHat wanted to eliminate static nodes because they are a big headache
for distro builders who needed to include thousands of nodes even though
only a handful were actually used on a particular system. They decided
to implement dynamic nodes that are created during boot. Eventually
this "evolved" over time into systemd and now libinput.

Post by tom
Part of the problem (and feature) of the Linux ecosystem is that every
system component is made by a completely different person/team/company
with different, often conflicting design goals.

Yes, it is a feature, and a good one at that.

But RedHat, and its lackey Poettering, see it as a serious problem
for them because such fragmentation will deter developers and thus
reduce potential profits. They are pushing to make GNU/Linux more
centralized and to eliminate choice. This is the entire raison d'etre
for systemd and libinput.

Post by tom
You can get away from the FreeDesktop stuff by stop using desktop
environments and learn how to configure a compact window manager that
doesn't rely on FreeDesktop stuff.

As I indicated above, it is now quite impossible to avoid GNOME/Freedesktop
stuff.

The problem will even get worse in the future. Many alternative window
managers, such as FVWM3, will only operate with X. But RedHat, and all
their distro lackeys, are strongly pushing Wayland, and furthermore,
the major graphical toolkits, like GTK+, are strongly considering ending
their support for X. This means that dozens of very useful and attractive
window managers will suddenly become totally obsolete.

When I first began using GNU/Linux I was tremendously elated over what
I believed was a truly free (as in freedom) OS that would persist forever.
But now I can only hope to convey my distress over what is clearly a
degeneration of this freedom.

[Rich]

Post by Farley Flud
But RedHat, and its lackey Poettering,

You should note that the lackey Poettering is now employed by his
original handler when he was employed by RedHat: Microsoft.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lennart_Poettering

Lennart Poettering (born 15 October 1980) is a German software
engineer working for Microsoft ...

[Chris Ahlstrom]

Post by Rich

Post by Farley Flud
But RedHat, and its lackey Poettering,

You should note that the lackey Poettering is now employed by his
original handler when he was employed by RedHat: Microsoft.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lennart_Poettering
Lennart Poettering (born 15 October 1980) is a German software
engineer working for Microsoft ...

!!!!

Shades of Miguel de Icaza!

And in 2017, Poettering received the Pwnie Award for Lamest Vendor Response
to vulnerabilities reported in systemd.

Still, I appreciate systemd for the speed of booting.

[Phillip Frabott]

Post by Farley Flud
When I first began using GNU/Linux I was tremendously elated over what
I believed was a truly free (as in freedom) OS that would persist forever.
But now I can only hope to convey my distress over what is clearly a
degeneration of this freedom.

One of the downsides of the FSF movement and GPL was the unintentional
directive that pure freedom would cause, the freedom to control others
and the freedom to push/force software. The FSF may not have intended
that to be the thing, but it's a freedom given under the 4 pillars.
That's why I have been vocal that the FSF needs to change some things,
but their ego and arrogance stops them from doing so. Sadly, I think the
FSF will not be around in the next 2 decades. Time will tell (and it
will be a shame if I'm right) but there is too many loopholes that allow
these large companies to take over. What used to protect users, now
protects businesses. But that's just my take.

[Farley Flud]

Post by Phillip Frabott
One of the downsides of the FSF movement and GPL was the unintentional
directive that pure freedom would cause, the freedom to control others
and the freedom to push/force software. The FSF may not have intended
that to be the thing, but it's a freedom given under the 4 pillars.
That's why I have been vocal that the FSF needs to change some things,
but their ego and arrogance stops them from doing so. Sadly, I think the
FSF will not be around in the next 2 decades. Time will tell (and it
will be a shame if I'm right) but there is too many loopholes that allow
these large companies to take over. What used to protect users, now
protects businesses. But that's just my take.

The Linux distros are also very much to blame as the majority will follow
the trends without question.

Only Gentoo offers true choice, as does the long-running Linux From
Scratch.

But it is not enough to just whine on Usenet. One must get actively involved
in the FSF and other FOSS projects and attempt to enforce the freedom
concept.

I must admit that I am guilty in not taking this active approach.

However, from what I have experienced, taking a stand against the loss
of freedom is likely to be a very uphill battle.

[Phillip Frabott]

Post by Farley Flud

Post by Phillip Frabott
One of the downsides of the FSF movement and GPL was the unintentional
directive that pure freedom would cause, the freedom to control others
and the freedom to push/force software. The FSF may not have intended
that to be the thing, but it's a freedom given under the 4 pillars.
That's why I have been vocal that the FSF needs to change some things,
but their ego and arrogance stops them from doing so. Sadly, I think the
FSF will not be around in the next 2 decades. Time will tell (and it
will be a shame if I'm right) but there is too many loopholes that allow
these large companies to take over. What used to protect users, now
protects businesses. But that's just my take.

The Linux distros are also very much to blame as the majority will follow
the trends without question.

100% this. I don't use distros, I compile my own sources and bring my
own system up from M4 and bintools, up to the kernel and such. This is
something I've always done from the beginning. I mean, we didn't have
distros back then. I remember having been one of the few (lucky ones)
that had access to a minix computer at home, and when I saw Torvalds
Kernel and then found GNU shortly after I was hooked. Now I hear there's
a website call LFS that people can use to learn how to source their own
system now. People should learn to do it. It'd also stop the influences
from distros. I'd love to see more of that.

Post by Farley Flud
Only Gentoo offers true choice, as does the long-running Linux From
Scratch.

I haven't looked into Gentoo but I've heard the same being said. A
friend of mine on Matrix uses Gentoo and he talks about it being the
only distro (in his mind) that is actually a truly free distro.

Post by Farley Flud
But it is not enough to just whine on Usenet. One must get actively involved
in the FSF and other FOSS projects and attempt to enforce the freedom
concept.

Yes, and that's something I've been doing for a while now. But I've
figured out in the process it's very hard to get anyone in the FSF (at
least in the leadership) to change anything. We've had some good back
and forth but it just doesn't seem to spark any interest in the people
that have the power within the FSF. And there isn't enough people on
this side of the fence yet to make those demands. But I'm still trying.

To clarify before my next statement I wish no ill-will towards Richard
Stallman but I do feel like (sometimes) he is the blocker for some of
the changes needed for the FSF to return to protecting users rights. I'm
glad with the work he's done over the last 4 decades to get us here but
I know that a lot of the leadership will do and not do anything without
his green light. And I know he will remain involved until the day he
leaves the earth (again, no ill-will to him at all.) I just wish there
was more openness to change in the FSF leadership then what we have
right now. But again, I'm just a small guy on the totem pole so... I do
what I can and hopefully one day things can change for the better.

Post by Farley Flud
I must admit that I am guilty in not taking this active approach.
However, from what I have experienced, taking a stand against the loss
of freedom is likely to be a very uphill battle.

It totally is... But we can always try anyways.

[DFS]

Post by Phillip Frabott
Now I hear there's
a website call LFS that people can use to learn how to source their own
system now. People should learn to do it.

ha! And you should get an ASE certification for cars and light trucks.

Post by Phillip Frabott
It'd also stop the influences from distros. I'd love to see more of that.

Distros are, by far, the best thing that ever happened to Linux.

Post by Phillip Frabott
To clarify before my next statement I wish no ill-will towards Richard
Stallman but I do feel like (sometimes) he is the blocker for some of
the changes needed for the FSF to return to protecting users rights.

What "rights" are you referring to?

Post by Phillip Frabott
I'm
glad with the work he's done over the last 4 decades to get us here

Access to source code was the norm - in academia anyways - long before
Stallman butted in and demanded everyone's code for free.

Just say no to that foul 'skeptic of the harm of voluntarily pedophilia'
creature.

[D]

Post by Farley Flud

Post by Phillip Frabott
One of the downsides of the FSF movement and GPL was the unintentional
directive that pure freedom would cause, the freedom to control others
and the freedom to push/force software. The FSF may not have intended
that to be the thing, but it's a freedom given under the 4 pillars.
That's why I have been vocal that the FSF needs to change some things,
but their ego and arrogance stops them from doing so. Sadly, I think the
FSF will not be around in the next 2 decades. Time will tell (and it
will be a shame if I'm right) but there is too many loopholes that allow
these large companies to take over. What used to protect users, now
protects businesses. But that's just my take.

The Linux distros are also very much to blame as the majority will follow
the trends without question.
Only Gentoo offers true choice, as does the long-running Linux From
Scratch.
But it is not enough to just whine on Usenet. One must get actively involved
in the FSF and other FOSS projects and attempt to enforce the freedom
concept.
I must admit that I am guilty in not taking this active approach.
However, from what I have experienced, taking a stand against the loss
of freedom is likely to be a very uphill battle.

Wow, you read my mind. I agree completely!

[D]

Post by Farley Flud
As I indicated above, it is now quite impossible to avoid GNOME/Freedesktop
stuff.
The problem will even get worse in the future. Many alternative window
managers, such as FVWM3, will only operate with X. But RedHat, and all
their distro lackeys, are strongly pushing Wayland, and furthermore,
the major graphical toolkits, like GTK+, are strongly considering ending
their support for X. This means that dozens of very useful and attractive
window managers will suddenly become totally obsolete.
When I first began using GNU/Linux I was tremendously elated over what
I believed was a truly free (as in freedom) OS that would persist forever.
But now I can only hope to convey my distress over what is clearly a
degeneration of this freedom.

I wouldn't worry about it. In fact, paradoxically, a too dominant
IBM/Red Hat might in the end actually be good for the eco system!

If the established players take away too much choice, perhaps a bigger
portion will move to the BSD:s and it will become the BSD:s time to
flourish.

Enterprise Linux will harden into a less flexible, more opinionated,
corporate platform, while the true passionate technologists will move
back to BSD and BSD will get a boost.

[tom]

On Wed, 09 Oct 2024 10:51:35 +0000

Post by Farley Flud
ut RedHat, and its lackey Poettering, see it as a serious problem
for them because such fragmentation will deter developers and thus
reduce potential profits. They are pushing to make GNU/Linux more
centralized and to eliminate choice. This is the entire raison d'etre
for systemd and libinput.

Poettering works for Micro$oft now.

[Jerry Peters]

Post by Farley Flud

Post by tom
I've been switching to FreeBSD for most of my computers (laptop and
servers) because of the systemd assumption debacle and updates bring
frivolous changes for the sake of change that break things.

I have been considering that move as well, but I have so much invested
in GNU/Linux already (I have essentially created my own distro) that
it may not be the best option at the moment.
But if the dominance of GNU/Linux by a few parties continues to
grow then I will certainly adopt FreeBSD.
The best that could happen would be for GNU to complete its own
HURD OS, but that dream is a long way off.

Post by tom
If these sorts of things upset you that much (which is reasonable);
perhaps consider stop using software that has too much redhat
influence.

I don't use GNOME but rather only a simple window manager, FVWM3.
The problem here is that libinput, a product of GNOME/Freedesktop/
RedHat, has become the default input driver for X. There is no
way for anyone to avoid it.

You can switch back to evdev, but you're still going to have the same
problem, the numeric descriptors are not fixed. You need to use the
string desciptors as a previous poster noted;

[candycanearter07]

Post by tom
On Tue, 8 Oct 2024 19:40:04 -0000 (UTC)

Post by candycanearter07
Good to know, thanks. If only the monitor id's would stop changing..

I've been switching to FreeBSD for most of my computers (laptop and
servers) because of the systemd assumption debacle and updates bring
frivolous changes for the sake of change that break things.
If these sorts of things upset you that much (which is reasonable);
perhaps consider stop using software that has too much redhat
influence. Gnome stuff being funded by redhat, not just systemd. If you
follow the money on a lot of the stuff that has been plaguing the Linux
ecosystem these last couple of years you'll find in a lot of cases it
pointing back to redhat.
Part of the problem (and feature) of the Linux ecosystem is that every
system component is made by a completely different person/team/company
with different, often conflicting design goals.
You can get away from the FreeDesktop stuff by stop using desktop
environments and learn how to configure a compact window manager that
doesn't rely on FreeDesktop stuff. Things like suckless's DWM is fairly
capable and written in less then 2000 lines of C. You can modify it
yourself to add keybindings for things like media buttons and whatnot
without relying on freedesktop.
Bottom line is, you can get X11/*nix from places other then Linux
nowadays.

I don't think its a FreeDesktop issue. Xrandr keeps reporting slightly
different names for my monitors and it breaks my scripts.
Like, it keeps switching between eDP-1 and eDP1 (without a dash)

[Chris Ahlstrom]

<brevsnip>
I don't think its a FreeDesktop issue. Xrandr keeps reporting slightly
different names for my monitors and it breaks my scripts.
Like, it keeps switching between eDP-1 and eDP1 (without a dash)

That is odd! I've never experienced that. I hope you can track that down.

[candycanearter07]

Post by Chris Ahlstrom

<brevsnip>
I don't think its a FreeDesktop issue. Xrandr keeps reporting slightly
different names for my monitors and it breaks my scripts.
Like, it keeps switching between eDP-1 and eDP1 (without a dash)

That is odd! I've never experienced that. I hope you can track that down.

Hopefully. On the other hand, I'm not using those xrandr scripts for a
while, so it's not a pressing issue.

[Bozo User]

Post by Farley Flud
Note: This post is for GNU/Linux experts only. If you are just another
distro lackey then, please, fuck off.
Today, I invoked the Pan newsreader. It would not fucking scroll
with the mouse wheel. What the friggin' fuck?
Also, some other GUI programs would not scroll.
I've had this problem before, and, sure enough, it was libinput,
a product of GNOME/Freedesktop that was the fault.
xinput list-props 8
...
libinput Send Events Modes Available (270): 1, 0
libinput Send Events Mode Enabled (271): 0, 0
libinput Send Events Mode Enabled Default (272): 0, 0
...
They changed the "Send Events Mode Enabled" from 269 to 271.
What the fuck for? Only those incompetent assholes will know.
xinput --set-prop 8 271 1 0
Why no fucking advanced notice? Only those incompetent assholes will know.
GNOME/Freedesktop are the scourge of GNU/Linux. Those bastards are
just as bad as SYSTEMD -- and that's bad!
But the stupified distro lackey won't even bat an eye. These useless
creeps will just use their Ubuntu/Mint/Whatever without an inkling
into the degeneration wrought by these incompetent assholes.

Get Hyperbola GNU/Linux with Lumina Desktop, install lumina and lumina-extra
among the xenocara packages. It's much lighter, altough you will only
get libre kernels and packages. But with tkpacman and lxappearance among
qt5ct and qt-styleplugins you'll be able to set your desktop to something
really decent.