For The Gamers

[rbowman]

https://www.wired.com/story/2024-was-the-year-the-bottom-fell-out-of-the-
games-industry/

I'd seen a few articles but never paid much attention. RPI put a lot of
effort into their video game degree program and thought the spinoffs might
revitalize the upstate NY economy. I wonder if they missed the boat or if
the industry will spring back?

Linux: who really cares if games run on Linux? It's a serious OS for
serious people.

[CrudeSausage]

Post by rbowman
https://www.wired.com/story/2024-was-the-year-the-bottom-fell-out-of-the-
games-industry/
I'd seen a few articles but never paid much attention. RPI put a lot of
effort into their video game degree program and thought the spinoffs might
revitalize the upstate NY economy. I wonder if they missed the boat or if
the industry will spring back?
Linux: who really cares if games run on Linux? It's a serious OS for
serious people.

If it were a serious operating system for serious people, businesses and
academic institutions would be willing to run it, and invest in the
people necessary to troubleshoot it. Instead, both have realized that
its free cost does not result in savings of any kind because the
problems it causes often can't be resolved by even the most gifted of
technical staff. That's why they use Windows, even with the security issues.

[Farley Flud]

Post by CrudeSausage
If it were a serious operating system for serious people, businesses and
academic institutions would be willing to run it,

Hey. Hey, mutherfucker.

_I_ am an academic. I hold a Masters degree with three papers published
in peer-reviewed scientific journals. I am also on the adjunct faculty
of several community colleges.

_I_ also operate a highly successful business.

What OS do I use exclusively? "GNU/Linux" is the answer.

So "Fuck you!" and your imbecilic suppositions.

What do you do? What have you accomplished?

I asked: "What do you do? What have you accomplished?"

Huh? What?

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

You are a fucking loser that has no business commenting
on GNU/Linux, which is the greatest OS in the history of
technical man.

[Stéphane CARPENTIER]

Post by Farley Flud
_I_ am an academic. I hold a Masters degree with three papers published
in peer-reviewed scientific journals. I am also on the adjunct faculty
of several community colleges.

Only in your dreams. You never gave any pointer to a publication you
did. I don't believe that.

Post by Farley Flud
_I_ also operate a highly successful business.

What do you mean? You are living in an asylum, so you give medics a
purpose in life, OK, but nothing to be proud about.

Post by Farley Flud
What OS do I use exclusively? "GNU/Linux" is the answer.

A limited version of it. You just managed to install its core programs,
but as you said, any time you need to access a website you rely on
Windows. There's nothing to be proud of.

And, by the way, you are answering to one of the two people you said are
trolls who should never have an answer. So, once again, you fail in your
own claims. They are only two, it should be easy to remember. Even for a
limited Windows aficionados like you. Mostly if you are the one pointing
to them. You really should try to understand what you are speaking of.
Your stupidity is too obvious.

[Farley Flud]

Post by Stéphane CARPENTIER
Only in your dreams.

Only in YOUR fucking dreams.

YOU are so far beneath me that you must look up to see
down.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

_I_ implement my own distro while the best that you can
accomplish is to install some standard junk -- and you haven't
the intelligence to realize it.

Get back on your knees, lackey. _I_ am the true master.
Don't ever forget that.

[Joel]

Post by Farley Flud

Post by Stéphane CARPENTIER
Only in your dreams.

Only in YOUR fucking dreams.
YOU are so far beneath me that you must look up to see
down.
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!
_I_ implement my own distro while the best that you can
accomplish is to install some standard junk -- and you haven't
the intelligence to realize it.
Get back on your knees, lackey. _I_ am the true master.
Don't ever forget that.

Not even close. Stéphane is a very big guru, here, you are an
oddball.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

[Stéphane CARPENTIER]

Thanks for your answer, my FAI didn't show me his message and without it
I would have missed this masterpiece of buffoonery.

Post by Joel

Post by Farley Flud

Post by Stéphane CARPENTIER
Only in your dreams.

Only in YOUR fucking dreams.

It's poor, you can do better.

Post by Joel

Post by Farley Flud
YOU are so far beneath me that you must look up to see
down.

That's better.

Post by Joel

Post by Farley Flud
_I_ implement my own distro while the best that you can
accomplish is to install some standard junk -- and you haven't
the intelligence to realize it.

Failing to install fully Gentoo doesn't mean you implement your own
distro. It means you need to use Windows to access Internet. The only
reason you are able to install Windows completely is because it doesn't
let you stop to install it halfway. And probably, the only reason you
manage to use Windows at all is because it was already installed and you
hadn't anything to do.

Post by Joel

Post by Farley Flud
Get back on your knees, lackey.

I do what I want. I'm not ready to go on my knees before you. But I
can throw you some peanuts if you want. That, I can manage. Or I can
throw a stick for you to fetch. I can manage that too.

Post by Joel

Post by Farley Flud
_I_ am the true master.

Start by mastering the basics of Internet access with Linux, and we'll
see for more difficult tasks in a second step. And then start by
learning how insult people when it's your only argument. Because you
sent only two or three good insults on all of your messages.

Post by Joel

Post by Farley Flud
Don't ever forget that.

I don't. You remind me how any easy task in Linux starts to be a highly
difficult chalenge when you try it, in all of your messages.

Post by Joel
Not even close. Stéphane is a very big guru, here, you are an
oddball.

Euh, no. I'm not a guru. I know really big gurus and I'm far from being
one of them.

[DFS]

Post by Farley Flud

Post by Stéphane CARPENTIER
Only in your dreams.

Only in YOUR fucking dreams.
YOU are so far beneath me that you must look up to see
down.
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!
_I_ implement my own distro

Your "boot script" was stolen from LFS.

The kernel, compiler and packages were ALL written by someone else.

gcc and Python do the compilation and installation.

What did you create, that makes it your distro?

[Physfitfreak]

Post by Farley Flud

Post by CrudeSausage
If it were a serious operating system for serious people, businesses and
academic institutions would be willing to run it,

Hey. Hey, mutherfucker.
_I_ am an academic. I hold a Masters degree with three papers published
in peer-reviewed scientific journals. I am also on the adjunct faculty
of several community colleges.
_I_ also operate a highly successful business.
What OS do I use exclusively? "GNU/Linux" is the answer.
So "Fuck you!" and your imbecilic suppositions.
What do you do? What have you accomplished?
I asked: "What do you do? What have you accomplished?"
Huh? What?
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!
You are a fucking loser that has no business commenting
on GNU/Linux, which is the greatest OS in the history of
technical man.

He is a moron. For some reason morons end up teaching language for
people who do not speak it (you can't wonder why). And since I've been
among them in the past, literally _all_ of them fail the yearly exams to
extend their teaching certificates, but states are lenient on them and
provide loopholes for them to continue teaching.

In the United States, they teach English and Spanish either in high
schools or in private businesses. All of them are morons!

[Chris Ahlstrom]

Post by Farley Flud

Post by CrudeSausage
If it were a serious operating system for serious people, businesses and
academic institutions would be willing to run it,

Like the U.S. Dept. of Defense?

Facebook/Meta?

Roku?

Google?

Microsoft?

Post by Farley Flud
Hey. Hey, mutherfucker.
<snip>
You are a fucking loser that has no business commenting
on GNU/Linux, which is the greatest OS in the history of
technical man.

He's just a dumbass troll. Like you :-D

Flud and Crud! Kinda has a ring to it! :-D :-D :-D

[DFS]

Post by Farley Flud

Post by CrudeSausage
If it were a serious operating system for serious people, businesses and
academic institutions would be willing to run it,

Hey. Hey, mutherfucker.
_I_ am an academic.

How many instances and what subjects have you taught the last 2 years?

Post by Farley Flud
I hold a Masters degree with three papers published
in peer-reviewed scientific journals.

There's no online record of an academic paper authored or co-authored by
Larry Andrew Piet or Pietraskiewicz, or any combo of those names.

Which means you're very likely a LIAR.

Post by Farley Flud
I am also on the adjunct faculty
of several community colleges.

Macomb Community College:
Acceptance rate: 100%.
Graduation rate: 16% (within 3 years)

Aim for the stars, princess!

Post by Farley Flud
_I_ also operate a highly successful business.

Your Mom might, but you have jack shit business, liar.

Your lie about being a "consultant to the US Army" was bullshit, too.

Post by Farley Flud
What OS do I use exclusively? "GNU/Linux" is the answer.

You forgot about the 8 hours per day at your Windows job.

Post by Farley Flud
So "Fuck you!" and your imbecilic suppositions.
What do you do? What have you accomplished?

In real life you installed Gentoo 3x in 12 years

Online you bragged about yourself on cola for 8 years straight.

Post by Farley Flud
I asked: "What do you do? What have you accomplished?"
Huh? What?
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!
You are a fucking loser

From what I know about the two of you, Slimer is by far the more
well-rounded, accomplished person.

He's not a programmer, but neither are you.

Post by Farley Flud
that has no business commenting
on GNU/Linux, which is the greatest OS in the history of
technical man.

That would be Unix. GuhNoo/Linux is just a copycat pretender.

[Joel]

Post by DFS

Post by Farley Flud
GNU/Linux, which is the greatest OS in the history of
technical man.

That would be Unix. GuhNoo/Linux is just a copycat pretender.

It set a new standard for the Unix platform as a whole - for a
"copycat" that's pretty damn good.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

[CrudeSausage]

Post by DFS

Post by CrudeSausage
If it were a serious operating system for serious people, businesses and
academic institutions would be willing to run it,

Hey.  Hey, mutherfucker.
_I_ am an academic.

How many instances and what subjects have you taught the last 2 years?

Ask him about the curriculum he's created for students. After all, if
he's as accomplished as he claims to be, he would generally be in charge
of a department and the person deciding what the students would have to
learn.

Post by DFS

I hold a Masters degree with three papers published
in peer-reviewed scientific journals.

There's no online record of an academic paper authored or co-authored by
Larry Andrew Piet or Pietraskiewicz, or any combo of those names.
Which means you're very likely a LIAR.

I'll say this much: Polish people have a tendency to exaggerate their
accomplishments when they reach the age of 40 and haven't done much with
their lives. I've seen it a lot in my community. Those who do well never
speak about what they did but those who didn't will inflate every action
to some grandiose level. Since the parents spend the child's lifetime
telling him that he is worthless unless this or that is done, they end
up being very hard on themselves. However, they cannot tolerate
criticism from anyone but themselves. It is sad to say but I've seen it
a lot.

Post by DFS

I am also on the adjunct faculty
of several community colleges.

Acceptance rate: 100%.
Graduation rate:  16% (within 3 years)
Aim for the stars, princess!

Damn, I had no idea they were that bad.

< snip >

Post by DFS

You are a fucking loser

From what I know about the two of you, Slimer is by far the more well-
rounded, accomplished person.
He's not a programmer, but neither are you.

When I was a kid, I was top of class and understood the material so
easily that every teacher was convinced that I would do marvelous
things. I understood things so easily that I got a little lazy with my
studies and was distracted by things like girls and an acne problem that
truly killed my self-confidence. People don't understand what it is like
to be the one suffering from that, so they offer little to no sympathy
to those afflicted. Anyways, studies took a backseat. Even though I had
pretty good grades in high school, I should have been top of the class
and ended up becoming an engineer or a doctor. However, even by 17 I
knew that I probably had Seasonal Affective Disorder and that working
summers was going to kill me. Therefore, teaching became the most
obvious solution.

There is no shortage of great intellect in my family. Two of my cousins
are already doctors, their little sister will be a veterinarian, my
cousin was programming in BASIC by the age of 5 and Assembler by 10 or
so, and the generation before ours was packed with engineers (if they
were second-generation Canadians, anyway). Being anything less than a
university graduate was considered disappointing.

< snip >

[chrisv]

Post by CrudeSausage
When I was a kid, I was top of class and understood the material so
easily that every teacher was convinced that I would do marvelous
things. I understood things so easily that I got a little lazy with my
studies and was distracted by things like girls and an acne problem that
truly killed my self-confidence. People don't understand what it is like
to be the one suffering from that, so they offer little to no sympathy
to those afflicted. Anyways, studies took a backseat. Even though I had
pretty good grades in high school, I should have been top of the class
and ended up becoming an engineer or a doctor. However, even by 17 I
knew that I probably had Seasonal Affective Disorder and that working
summers was going to kill me. Therefore, teaching became the most
obvious solution.

I was always top of my classes, up until I became a "burnout" in high
school, anyway. I didn't even graduate. Fortunately, I eventually
grew-up and went back to school.

Even during my worst years I was a computer nerd, and I think that I
always knew that I'd eventually get my shit together and work with
computers. I realized that eventually I would need to work for a
living, and I didn't want it to be digging ditches.

Post by CrudeSausage
There is no shortage of great intellect in my family. Two of my cousins
are already doctors, their little sister will be a veterinarian, my
cousin was programming in BASIC by the age of 5 and Assembler by 10 or
so, and the generation before ours was packed with engineers (if they
were second-generation Canadians, anyway). Being anything less than a
university graduate was considered disappointing.

I have two brothers. One is a doctor, the other a lawyer. As an
engineer, I'm low man on the totem pole, I guess. But we all found
our niche in life, which is huge.

[CrudeSausage]

Post by chrisv

Post by CrudeSausage
When I was a kid, I was top of class and understood the material so
easily that every teacher was convinced that I would do marvelous
things. I understood things so easily that I got a little lazy with my
studies and was distracted by things like girls and an acne problem that
truly killed my self-confidence. People don't understand what it is like
to be the one suffering from that, so they offer little to no sympathy
to those afflicted. Anyways, studies took a backseat. Even though I had
pretty good grades in high school, I should have been top of the class
and ended up becoming an engineer or a doctor. However, even by 17 I
knew that I probably had Seasonal Affective Disorder and that working
summers was going to kill me. Therefore, teaching became the most
obvious solution.

I was always top of my classes, up until I became a "burnout" in high
school, anyway. I didn't even graduate. Fortunately, I eventually
grew-up and went back to school.
Even during my worst years I was a computer nerd, and I think that I
always knew that I'd eventually get my shit together and work with
computers. I realized that eventually I would need to work for a
living, and I didn't want it to be digging ditches.

I don't miss working around computers, but I do miss the guys I worked
with. Nothing is more fun than hanging out with fellow nerds. These
muggles bother me immensely with their ignorance and constant
willingness to stab others in the back.

Post by chrisv

Post by CrudeSausage
There is no shortage of great intellect in my family. Two of my cousins
are already doctors, their little sister will be a veterinarian, my
cousin was programming in BASIC by the age of 5 and Assembler by 10 or
so, and the generation before ours was packed with engineers (if they
were second-generation Canadians, anyway). Being anything less than a
university graduate was considered disappointing.

I have two brothers. One is a doctor, the other a lawyer. As an
engineer, I'm low man on the totem pole, I guess. But we all found
our niche in life, which is huge.

I'm come to terms with the fact that teaching, while not always ideal,
is probably the most enjoyable job I would have had. If you've enjoyed
what you've been doing so far, there is no reason to question it.

[chrisv]

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by chrisv
I have two brothers. One is a doctor, the other a lawyer. As an
engineer, I'm low man on the totem pole, I guess. But we all found
our niche in life, which is huge.

I'm come to terms with the fact that teaching, while not always ideal,
is probably the most enjoyable job I would have had. If you've enjoyed
what you've been doing so far, there is no reason to question it.

I've often thought that I should have went into programming as a
profession. I programmed a lot when I was young, and really enjoyed
it. The only times at work when I felt that I was having so much fun
that I didn't want to go home for the evening was when I was
programming.

But I had my safe, and tolerable, niche in electronics manufacturing,
and I was too cowardly to risk the career change.

[Farley Flud]

Post by chrisv
I've often thought that I should have went into programming as a
profession. I programmed a lot when I was young, and really enjoyed
it. The only times at work when I felt that I was having so much fun
that I didn't want to go home for the evening was when I was
programming.

Poor choice. You would have immediately stopped having fun
if you had been hired. The kinds of shit programming that occurs
in most commercial businesses would make any intelligent person
cringe. It's all bullshit from start to finish, especially in
the web arena.

That's why I quit and I am extremely glad that I did.

For me, the only exception would be HPC, but that usually requires
a PhD in computational physics, and that's something which I did
not have (close but no cigar).

So congratulate yourself on your choice. The commercial programming
environment is pure shit and with the AI bubble it will get even
worse.

[Stéphane CARPENTIER]

Post by Farley Flud
Poor choice. You would have immediately stopped having fun
if you had been hired.

It's impressive. Your stupidity has no boundary. You are always able to
surpass yourself. There is no reason to look for a job you don't like.
Most people on the planet can't choose their job: they have to do a
difficult job for a bad salary provided them just enough money to eat.
And sometime, the job that destroy their health doesn't even not provide
them enough money to eat. So having the possibility to get a well payed
job you like is a blessing. Only a brain dead first class moron like you
can't understand that.

Post by Farley Flud
The kinds of shit programming that occurs in most commercial
businesses would make any intelligent person cringe. It's all
bullshit from start to finish, especially in the web arena.

You don't explain why he shouldn't have fun. You explain what everyone
here already knows: you are a fraud. So nobody can work with you for
more than an hour (the time required to realize their mistake to have
trusted you). So, of course, your only defense is to consider every all
others as helpless when you are the issue.

Post by Farley Flud
That's why I quit and I am extremely glad that I did.

You have been fired and you pretend to have quit before having fired.
But I'm not fooled.

Post by Farley Flud
For me, the only exception would be HPC, but that usually requires
a PhD in computational physics, and that's something which I did
not have (close but no cigar).

OK, I'll have to fall back on a French website, I don't like it but I
don't know any similar website in English. Sorry for the non-French
speakers, I can't translate, it's too difficult but I'll explain.

So, for the answer, what you have is that:
<https://www.la-rache.com/certificat.html>
And now, I have to explain why what you took for a prize was a joke.
It's very easy to get your certificate, it should have ring a bell.

For the explanation of the website. You probably all have heard about
the waterfall and agile methods. In companies, a lot of things are done
at the last minute, not fully finished but with no more time left. Some
shortcuts have to be done for that. So, it's done but nobody is proud
about it. In French we say: « Ça a été fait à l'arrache. » in English,
we could say: "It has been done at the last minute." but the meaning is
not exactly the same. In French « à l'arrache » is pronounced the same
way as « à la RACHE », so the name of the institute : "The RACHE".

So, for the certificate's explanation/translation.
« Certificat de réussite
International Institute of La RACHE »
could be translated:
"Certificate of success
International Institute of The RACHE".

« 100% de réussite (ou presque) pour » would be translated "100% of
success (or almost) for".

"Prénom NOM" is where you put your name before printing it without
understanding this certificate is a joke and not something close to a
PhD.

« Qui est capable de mener à bien n'importe quel projet, même à
l'arrache. » can be translated "Who is able to manage to the end any
project, even at the last minute." Again, I don't like the translation
of "the last minute" for « à l'arrache » but I don't find better.

« Formé(e) à la cafèt, le 11/01/2025 » means something like "Instructed
at the coffee machine, the 11/01/2025".

« Le Président
METODA Gilles »
Once again, it's difficult to translate, so I'll have to explain. The
president doesn't need explanation, it's his name who requires one. So
as I said there is the agile methode. In French it's the « méthode
agile ». Which is pronounce like « méthode à Gilles » which means it's
the method of Gilles, where Gilles is a real French first name. And,
« Méthode à Gilles » is pronounced exactly like « METODA Gilles ». I
really don't see how it can be translated with the same meaning.

And the last:
« Chargé de formation
Le stagiaire » which can be translated:
"The instructor
the intern".

The rest of the website is great, but it requires French knowledge to be
appreciated.

So here is the only certificate you ever get, because it's easy to put your
name on it and it shows exactly your ability to work with others.

[Farley Flud]

Post by Stéphane CARPENTIER
So nobody can work with you for
more than an hour (the time required to realize their mistake to have
trusted you).

An hour! It's more like 10 fucking minutes.

I do not tolerate idiots and it doesn't take me an hour to discern
that someone, like YOU, is a total idiot.

Then I throw his ass out.

Post by Stéphane CARPENTIER
OK, I'll have to fall back on a French website,

Fuck the French. They do nothing.

In fact I have an image from the École polytechnique that was
processed from the RAW file by some "expert" from there. The
result is shit compared to my processing.

You, of course, will claim disbelief but you can go and fuck
yourself.

But if you prove that you are worthy I just may allow you to
view the comparative results.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

[Stéphane CARPENTIER]

Post by Farley Flud

Post by Stéphane CARPENTIER
So nobody can work with you for
more than an hour (the time required to realize their mistake to have
trusted you).

An hour! It's more like 10 fucking minutes.

Which would prove you are stupider than your claims. If it takes you 10
minutes to discover that a job doesn't fit you, it means you could have
discovered that before being hired. So, once again, any of your claims
pretending you are smart proves you are idiot. I'm using your only word
here to be sure you'll appreciate it.

Post by Farley Flud
I do not tolerate idiots and it doesn't take me an hour to discern
that someone, like YOU, is a total idiot.

Your lack of imagination is tiring. I get your badge of honor, I refuse
your insult.

Post by Farley Flud
Then I throw his ass out.

You never managed to throw me out. So, once again: big mouth, little
abilities.

Post by Farley Flud

Post by Stéphane CARPENTIER
OK, I'll have to fall back on a French website,

Fuck the French.

OK, that's a proof that this website is great.

Post by Farley Flud
They do nothing.

You always brag about sound quality but you are still using your
computer with a shit audio card to hear music. If you were really
interested in sound quality, you would have heard of atoll which is
French and provide good quality products:
<https://www.atoll-electronique.com/>

But, as always, you despise everyone that's better than you (which mean
pretty everyone in the world) and you can't learn anything.

Post by Farley Flud
In fact I have an image from the École polytechnique that was
processed from the RAW file by some "expert" from there. The
result is shit compared to my processing.

That means nothing. It's the perfect sentence explained in the website
which method you follow. You don't try to provide information, you try
to impress. And you fail miserably because you lack the developed brain
needed to that.

Post by Farley Flud
You, of course, will claim disbelief

Not this time because your claims means nothing, so I can neither
believe it nor refuse to believe it.

Post by Farley Flud
but you can go and fuck yourself.

I can do what I want and I never follow your retard advice.

Post by Farley Flud
But if you prove that you are worthy I just may allow you to
view the comparative results.

I have nothing to prove to you. You are my toy. I'm answering your
messages to have fun and to improve my English. Not to prove anything to
you. I don't argue with wheelbarrows, I push them. Try to understand
what that means.

[chrisv]

Post by Stéphane CARPENTIER

Post by Farley Flud
Poor choice. You would have immediately stopped having fun
if you had been hired.

It's impressive. Your stupidity has no boundary. You are always able to
surpass yourself. There is no reason to look for a job you don't like.
Most people on the planet can't choose their job: they have to do a
difficult job for a bad salary provided them just enough money to eat.
And sometime, the job that destroy their health doesn't even not provide
them enough money to eat. So having the possibility to get a well payed
job you like is a blessing. Only a brain dead first class moron like you
can't understand that.

Post by Farley Flud
The kinds of shit programming that occurs in most commercial
businesses would make any intelligent person cringe. It's all
bullshit from start to finish, especially in the web arena.

You don't explain why he shouldn't have fun.

Yeah, having a job that is actually fun is "the dream" that not many
people get to live. Plus you'll out-perform everyone who is only
doing it for the paycheck.

Not to disparage my job. It's OK. Sometimes fun. I'm fscking-around
with computers and electronics all day, so it's what I like and am
good at.

[pothead]

Post by chrisv

Post by Stéphane CARPENTIER

Post by Farley Flud
Poor choice. You would have immediately stopped having fun
if you had been hired.

It's impressive. Your stupidity has no boundary. You are always able to
surpass yourself. There is no reason to look for a job you don't like.
Most people on the planet can't choose their job: they have to do a
difficult job for a bad salary provided them just enough money to eat.
And sometime, the job that destroy their health doesn't even not provide
them enough money to eat. So having the possibility to get a well payed
job you like is a blessing. Only a brain dead first class moron like you
can't understand that.

Post by Farley Flud
The kinds of shit programming that occurs in most commercial
businesses would make any intelligent person cringe. It's all
bullshit from start to finish, especially in the web arena.

You don't explain why he shouldn't have fun.

Yeah, having a job that is actually fun is "the dream" that not many
people get to live. Plus you'll out-perform everyone who is only
doing it for the paycheck.
Not to disparage my job. It's OK. Sometimes fun. I'm fscking-around
with computers and electronics all day, so it's what I like and am
good at.

I taught my kids to pick a career that they enjoyed rather than look for
pure money.
Of course money is the #1 criteria for young folks but being miserable
even if making lot's of money sucks.
All my kids turned out fine.
Different professions, different salaries, but all happy with their choice.

[rbowman]

Post by pothead
I taught my kids to pick a career that they enjoyed rather than look for
pure money.
Of course money is the #1 criteria for young folks but being miserable
even if making lot's of money sucks.

Three months was my limit for any job I didn't enjoy. One evening at the
Cafe Lena I overheard two couple that looked like 'young professionals' at
the adjacent table talking between acts. The topic: how much our jobs
suck. All four of them hated whatever they were doing.

The Lena was sort of a proto-hippie coffee house and I wanted to yell
'Tune In! Turn On! Drop Out!'

[Stéphane CARPENTIER]

Post by rbowman

Post by pothead
I taught my kids to pick a career that they enjoyed rather than look for
pure money.
Of course money is the #1 criteria for young folks but being miserable
even if making lot's of money sucks.

Three months was my limit for any job I didn't enjoy. One evening at the
Cafe Lena I overheard two couple that looked like 'young professionals' at
the adjacent table talking between acts. The topic: how much our jobs
suck. All four of them hated whatever they were doing.
The Lena was sort of a proto-hippie coffee house and I wanted to yell
'Tune In! Turn On! Drop Out!'

It's not always that easy. If you have never been able to learn anything
useful, the job offer is limited. When you have two opportunities will
good salaries, it's easy to pick the most enjoyable one even if it means
a little bit less money. But if anybody can take the jobs you can
choose, then the probability that the offers are at the same time poorly
remunerated and uninteresting is high.

OK, I know, the rightists will say that if you have never learned
anything useful, it's because you are an unmotivated failure. And the
leftists will say that it's all because of the system. But, it's the
reason I never talk politic here, it's because the reality is in the
middle. What you do in your life is part of luck and part of what you
did by yourself in the past. So telling others what they should do when
you know nothing about them is a bad thing to do.

[chrisv]

Post by pothead

Post by chrisv
Yeah, having a job that is actually fun is "the dream" that not many
people get to live. Plus you'll out-perform everyone who is only
doing it for the paycheck.
Not to disparage my job. It's OK. Sometimes fun. I'm fscking-around
with computers and electronics all day, so it's what I like and am
good at.

I taught my kids to pick a career that they enjoyed rather than look for
pure money.
Of course money is the #1 criteria for young folks but being miserable
even if making lot's of money sucks.
All my kids turned out fine.
Different professions, different salaries, but all happy with their choice.

Yeah, I supported my daughter's choice to be an artist. I would have
preferred something like health care, where a good living is virtually
guaranteed. But she was passionate about art, so I paid for her four
years at a fancy art college.

Fortunately, she got a job in her field. The pay is only okay, but
she's doing what she loves. With my support, she doesn't have any
money worries, anyway.

[Farley Flud]

Post by chrisv
Yeah, having a job that is actually fun is "the dream" that not many
people get to live.

If you want to have fun with programming then start your own FOSS project.
You will get to work on something that you enjoy as well as provide the
world with something useful.

Be sure to publish on GitLab or equivalents. IOW stay off GitHub.

You may even attract other contributors.

I have a couple of software projects (all C of course) that are
waiting in the wings.

But the code has to be more than good. It has to be perfect. Unlike
the sloppy work that is usually performed in some grubbing corp,
where incompetence can easily be buried, the eyes of the world will
be upon you.

[Farley Flud]

Post by Stéphane CARPENTIER
So here is the only certificate you ever get, because it's easy to put your
name on it and it shows exactly your ability to work with others.

I don't work with others because most people are too slow and
too stupid, just like all the jackasses on this NG.

I am not being arrogant. This is a fact of reality.

[DFS]

Post by Farley Flud

Post by chrisv
I've often thought that I should have went into programming as a
profession. I programmed a lot when I was young, and really enjoyed
it. The only times at work when I felt that I was having so much fun
that I didn't want to go home for the evening was when I was
programming.

Poor choice. You would have immediately stopped having fun
if you had been hired.

Fun? It's called work, bozo.

But if you like coding, it will be fun and interesting.

Post by Farley Flud
The kinds of shit programming that occurs
in most commercial businesses would make any intelligent person
cringe. It's all bullshit from start to finish, especially in
the web arena.
That's why I quit and I am extremely glad that I did.

Stop lying. You quit because you were an incompetent programmer.

Post by Farley Flud
For me, the only exception would be HPC, but that usually requires
a PhD in computational physics, and that's something which I did
not have (close but no cigar).
So congratulate yourself on your choice. The commercial programming
environment is pure shit and with the AI bubble it will get even
worse.

Another ignorant Feeb post, borne of your failure to secure a
programming job, and your jealousy of those who succeed and make a good
living at it.

Quit babbling your ignorance. There is a SHITLOAD of interesting
programming work in the corporate world.

[CrudeSausage]

Post by chrisv

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by chrisv
I have two brothers. One is a doctor, the other a lawyer. As an
engineer, I'm low man on the totem pole, I guess. But we all found
our niche in life, which is huge.

I'm come to terms with the fact that teaching, while not always ideal,
is probably the most enjoyable job I would have had. If you've enjoyed
what you've been doing so far, there is no reason to question it.

I've often thought that I should have went into programming as a
profession. I programmed a lot when I was young, and really enjoyed
it. The only times at work when I felt that I was having so much fun
that I didn't want to go home for the evening was when I was
programming.
But I had my safe, and tolerable, niche in electronics manufacturing,
and I was too cowardly to risk the career change.

Even if I had learned to program more than I did, I was always worried
that there would be faster and better programmers out there. As a
result, I was worried that if I had gone into that field, I would never
have been able to hold down a job for long. There's a chance that I
would have fallen in love with it and done everything to get much
better, but I have to admit that I was never that enamoured with it either.

[chrisv]

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by chrisv
I've often thought that I should have went into programming as a
profession. I programmed a lot when I was young, and really enjoyed
it. The only times at work when I felt that I was having so much fun
that I didn't want to go home for the evening was when I was
programming.
But I had my safe, and tolerable, niche in electronics manufacturing,
and I was too cowardly to risk the career change.

Even if I had learned to program more than I did, I was always worried
that there would be faster and better programmers out there. As a
result, I was worried that if I had gone into that field, I would never
have been able to hold down a job for long. There's a chance that I
would have fallen in love with it and done everything to get much
better, but I have to admit that I was never that enamoured with it either.

I was concerned about the stability of the programming job. A project
gets axed, or completed, and the programmers might be let-go. In my
job, I'm well embedded into the system, helping to explain my 30+ year
tenure. Now, as the "OG", I know a lot of stuff that no one else
does.

[CrudeSausage]

Post by chrisv

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by chrisv
I've often thought that I should have went into programming as a
profession. I programmed a lot when I was young, and really enjoyed
it. The only times at work when I felt that I was having so much fun
that I didn't want to go home for the evening was when I was
programming.
But I had my safe, and tolerable, niche in electronics manufacturing,
and I was too cowardly to risk the career change.

Even if I had learned to program more than I did, I was always worried
that there would be faster and better programmers out there. As a
result, I was worried that if I had gone into that field, I would never
have been able to hold down a job for long. There's a chance that I
would have fallen in love with it and done everything to get much
better, but I have to admit that I was never that enamoured with it either.

I was concerned about the stability of the programming job. A project
gets axed, or completed, and the programmers might be let-go. In my
job, I'm well embedded into the system, helping to explain my 30+ year
tenure. Now, as the "OG", I know a lot of stuff that no one else
does.

At this point, I'm content with being the one teacher in the building
who actually knows something about how technology works. In a way, I
regret that I didn't choose another field and in another way, I don't. I
would have truly hated to work summers.

[rbowman]

Post by chrisv
I was concerned about the stability of the programming job. A project
gets axed, or completed, and the programmers might be let-go. In my
job, I'm well embedded into the system, helping to explain my 30+ year
tenure. Now, as the "OG", I know a lot of stuff that no one else does.

I've lasted over 25 years at my current job because I got old and slow. In
my prime a project coming to completion meant it was time to look for a
new job with an even more challenging project.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Soul_of_a_New_Machine

Kidder asked one of the people what they got from working insane hours.
The answer was the opportunity to work on the next insane project.

"So put me on a highway
And show me a sign
And take it to the limit one more time"

It was an Eagle's song but what ran through my mind was Waylon and
Willie.

[-hh]

Post by chrisv

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by chrisv
I've often thought that I should have went into programming as a
profession. I programmed a lot when I was young, and really enjoyed
it. The only times at work when I felt that I was having so much fun
that I didn't want to go home for the evening was when I was
programming.
But I had my safe, and tolerable, niche in electronics manufacturing,
and I was too cowardly to risk the career change.

Even if I had learned to program more than I did, I was always worried
that there would be faster and better programmers out there. As a
result, I was worried that if I had gone into that field, I would never
have been able to hold down a job for long. There's a chance that I
would have fallen in love with it and done everything to get much
better, but I have to admit that I was never that enamoured with it either.

I was concerned about the stability of the programming job. A project
gets axed, or completed, and the programmers might be let-go.

Back in the 80s/90s; AT&T some others were quite notorious about
treating their programmer staff as extremely fungible - the rule of
thumb was 5 years on a big project, then an 75% purge. Pay was good but
short-lived, as the odds of making it through two cycles were pretty
low, as Quality of Life suffers because they expected overtime too.

Post by chrisv
In my job, I'm well embedded into the system, helping to explain
my 30+ year tenure. Now, as the "OG", I know a lot of stuff that
no one else does.

Old bench technicians & lab rats are always great because of their depth
of expertise in their specialty area. One just needs to be careful to
not push them out of their comfort zone. Had one such oldtimer retire
this past summer & move to Texas .. he's already having second thoughts
on the whole "moving south for better weather" - and this week's
ice/snow probably has them wondering if they escaped any of that too.


-hh

[rbowman]

Post by chrisv
But I had my safe, and tolerable, niche in electronics manufacturing,
and I was too cowardly to risk the career change.

My career started in the machine tool industry, which at the time was
mostly based on relay logic. As microcontrollers entered the mix, drawing
ladder diagrams and wiring up ice cube relays was replaced by programming.
Logic is logic.

With my first exposure to programming being FORTRAN IV and punch cards I
wasn't interested in programming. When it got to the point where I could
wire-wrap a board on the kitchen table and program it the field became
interesting.

[Chris Ahlstrom]

Post by rbowman

Post by chrisv
But I had my safe, and tolerable, niche in electronics manufacturing,
and I was too cowardly to risk the career change.

My career started in the machine tool industry, which at the time was
mostly based on relay logic. As microcontrollers entered the mix, drawing
ladder diagrams and wiring up ice cube relays was replaced by programming.
Logic is logic.
With my first exposure to programming being FORTRAN IV and punch cards I
wasn't interested in programming. When it got to the point where I could
wire-wrap a board on the kitchen table and program it the field became
interesting.

I went into physics because I thought I would become bored with programming.
The I transferred to hearing science and ended up writing FORTRAN code to drive
stimulus/response boxes and noise generators on the PDP-11. Also wrote a pretty
decent HP pen-plotter program in FORTRAN. Around that time I took a course in C
programming on the PDP-11, using TECO as the text editor.

As time went on programming slowly took over and most of my work life involved
writing code.

Today I am retired, but still writing a lot of code (and doing a lot of
debugging, too :-D). C++, a little C as well.

[Stéphane CARPENTIER]

Post by Chris Ahlstrom
I went into physics because I thought I would become bored with programming.

I can understand one can become bored with programming in some company
doing always the same stuff. But in a general way, I don't understand
how one can get bored with programming. And that's one thing DFS will
never be able to contest about the superiority of FOSS over proprietary
software. With proprietary software, to get chalenges in programming,
you have to get hired by the company to work on it first. With FOSS,
there are so many lines of codes in so many programming languages
waiting for you to improve them that you can have fun as long as you
want.

[DFS]

Post by Stéphane CARPENTIER

Post by Chris Ahlstrom
I went into physics because I thought I would become bored with programming.

I can understand one can become bored with programming in some company
doing always the same stuff. But in a general way, I don't understand
how one can get bored with programming. And that's one thing DFS will
never be able to contest about the superiority of FOSS over proprietary
software.

What superiority are you referring to?

Post by Stéphane CARPENTIER
With proprietary software, to get chalenges in programming,
you have to get hired by the company to work on it first. With FOSS,
there are so many lines of codes in so many programming languages
waiting for you to improve them that you can have fun as long as you
want.

That's why it's called hobbyware.

[RonB]

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by rbowman
https://www.wired.com/story/2024-was-the-year-the-bottom-fell-out-of-the-
games-industry/
I'd seen a few articles but never paid much attention. RPI put a lot of
effort into their video game degree program and thought the spinoffs might
revitalize the upstate NY economy. I wonder if they missed the boat or if
the industry will spring back?
Linux: who really cares if games run on Linux? It's a serious OS for
serious people.

If it were a serious operating system for serious people, businesses and
academic institutions would be willing to run it, and invest in the
people necessary to troubleshoot it. Instead, both have realized that
its free cost does not result in savings of any kind because the
problems it causes often can't be resolved by even the most gifted of
technical staff. That's why they use Windows, even with the security issues.

The reason they use Windows is because it runs Microsoft Office (and
businesses are "married" to this crap) and Microsoft's has leverage with the
computer manufacturers. Monopolies have a lot of inertia that's hard to
overcome. But you'll note that, for development purposes, Microsoft is now
including Linux in Windows. There's a reason for that. And, as software
moves to the "rental" phase and more and more of the applications move to
the "Cloud", there will be less and less necessity to use Windows.

It will take a while though.

[Sn!pe]

Post by RonB
The reason they use Windows is because it runs Microsoft Office (and
businesses are "married" to this crap) and Microsoft's has leverage with the
computer manufacturers. Monopolies have a lot of inertia that's hard to
overcome. But you'll note that, for development purposes, Microsoft is now
including Linux in Windows. There's a reason for that. And, as software
moves to the "rental" phase and more and more of the applications move to
the "Cloud", there will be less and less necessity to use Windows.

No purchasing manager was ever fired for specifying Microsoft.

[Joel]

Post by Sn!pe

Post by RonB
The reason they use Windows is because it runs Microsoft Office (and
businesses are "married" to this crap) and Microsoft's has leverage with the
computer manufacturers. Monopolies have a lot of inertia that's hard to
overcome. But you'll note that, for development purposes, Microsoft is now
including Linux in Windows. There's a reason for that. And, as software
moves to the "rental" phase and more and more of the applications move to
the "Cloud", there will be less and less necessity to use Windows.

No purchasing manager was ever fired for specifying Microsoft.

People will boot Win11 (or 10) if they need certain apps, it is
inclusive of M$ Office, but there's no question that Linux better
supports anything less than the high end, when you look at what it
really takes to run it. Microsoft just says "well, virtual memory
will handle the excesses on smaller systems".
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

[RonB]

Post by Sn!pe

Post by RonB
The reason they use Windows is because it runs Microsoft Office (and
businesses are "married" to this crap) and Microsoft's has leverage with the
computer manufacturers. Monopolies have a lot of inertia that's hard to
overcome. But you'll note that, for development purposes, Microsoft is now
including Linux in Windows. There's a reason for that. And, as software
moves to the "rental" phase and more and more of the applications move to
the "Cloud", there will be less and less necessity to use Windows.

No purchasing manager was ever fired for specifying Microsoft.

I wouldn't bet on it.

[rbowman]

Post by RonB

Post by Sn!pe

Post by RonB
The reason they use Windows is because it runs Microsoft Office (and
businesses are "married" to this crap) and Microsoft's has leverage
with the computer manufacturers. Monopolies have a lot of inertia
that's hard to overcome. But you'll note that, for development
purposes, Microsoft is now including Linux in Windows. There's a
reason for that. And, as software moves to the "rental" phase and more
and more of the applications move to the "Cloud", there will be less
and less necessity to use Windows.

No purchasing manager was ever fired for specifying Microsoft.

I wouldn't bet on it.

Leaving out the cloud I have to agree. Microsoft and the availability of
Microsoft Certified Whatevers makes pointy headed bosses sleep better at
night.

[CrudeSausage]

Post by rbowman

Post by RonB

Post by Sn!pe

Post by RonB
The reason they use Windows is because it runs Microsoft Office (and
businesses are "married" to this crap) and Microsoft's has leverage
with the computer manufacturers. Monopolies have a lot of inertia
that's hard to overcome. But you'll note that, for development
purposes, Microsoft is now including Linux in Windows. There's a
reason for that. And, as software moves to the "rental" phase and more
and more of the applications move to the "Cloud", there will be less
and less necessity to use Windows.

No purchasing manager was ever fired for specifying Microsoft.

I wouldn't bet on it.

Leaving out the cloud I have to agree. Microsoft and the availability of
Microsoft Certified Whatevers makes pointy headed bosses sleep better at
night.

It's the same argument as the one that was made as to why IBM won over
superior platforms in the 1980s. At the very least, anyone who suggests
Microsoft can't be reprimanded because the boss knows that they will be
able to find a ton of people who can use the well-known software as well
as a ton of techs who can troubleshoot it. Even if they can't afford
that staff, there is lots of help online for most problems if they
search for it. That doesn't mean that the operating system is
necessarily better; it simply means that businesses take a lot less risk
in choosing one over the other.

I've always mentioned that I believe that in fields like education and
finance, everyone would be better off using open-source though. For
finance, you need a robust kernel and a filesystem which resists bit-rot
to keep those records. There shouldn't be a need to back up data daily
for fear that your records will corrupt (even though it is still clearly
smart to do so). Similarly, in education, if the public system desires
removing all financial barriers to learning, doesn't it make sense to
run an operating system which can be deployed to even the most
affordable hardware at no performance penalty and prioritize the use of
software which can be downloaded at no charge? I've actually asked this
many times in the past and the answer has always been that maintaining
the Linux servers is more costly and time-consuming to the technicians.
I imagine that it is because the slightest change in configuration
causes chaos across the board.

[RonB]

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by rbowman

Post by RonB

Post by Sn!pe

Post by RonB
The reason they use Windows is because it runs Microsoft Office (and
businesses are "married" to this crap) and Microsoft's has leverage
with the computer manufacturers. Monopolies have a lot of inertia
that's hard to overcome. But you'll note that, for development
purposes, Microsoft is now including Linux in Windows. There's a
reason for that. And, as software moves to the "rental" phase and more
and more of the applications move to the "Cloud", there will be less
and less necessity to use Windows.

No purchasing manager was ever fired for specifying Microsoft.

I wouldn't bet on it.

Leaving out the cloud I have to agree. Microsoft and the availability of
Microsoft Certified Whatevers makes pointy headed bosses sleep better at
night.

It's the same argument as the one that was made as to why IBM won over
superior platforms in the 1980s. At the very least, anyone who suggests
Microsoft can't be reprimanded because the boss knows that they will be
able to find a ton of people who can use the well-known software as well
as a ton of techs who can troubleshoot it. Even if they can't afford
that staff, there is lots of help online for most problems if they
search for it. That doesn't mean that the operating system is
necessarily better; it simply means that businesses take a lot less risk
in choosing one over the other.
I've always mentioned that I believe that in fields like education and
finance, everyone would be better off using open-source though. For
finance, you need a robust kernel and a filesystem which resists bit-rot
to keep those records. There shouldn't be a need to back up data daily
for fear that your records will corrupt (even though it is still clearly
smart to do so). Similarly, in education, if the public system desires
removing all financial barriers to learning, doesn't it make sense to
run an operating system which can be deployed to even the most
affordable hardware at no performance penalty and prioritize the use of
software which can be downloaded at no charge? I've actually asked this
many times in the past and the answer has always been that maintaining
the Linux servers is more costly and time-consuming to the technicians.
I imagine that it is because the slightest change in configuration
causes chaos across the board.

First off, what happened to all those people who kept suggesting IBM was a
"no brainer" when it sank?

Second, do you really think important databases run on MicroSlop? Windows
might be the front-end, but I'm willing to bet that most corporations run
SQL under Linux servers for their important records. You've heard of Oracle,
right? (Not endorsing them, but they're the world's largest database
company, I believe. They have their own "flavor" of Red Hat.)

[rbowman]

Post by RonB
Second, do you really think important databases run on MicroSlop?
Windows might be the front-end, but I'm willing to bet that most
corporations run SQL under Linux servers for their important records.
You've heard of Oracle,
right? (Not endorsing them, but they're the world's largest database
company, I believe. They have their own "flavor" of Red Hat.)

PosgresSQL is making inroads. Oracle licenses are not cheap and support is
an extra cost option; Postgres is free. Most of our clients use SQL
Server. Not as robust as Oracle or expensive although it's not cheap. The
only RFP that required Oracle was from the DOI. Nothing is too good when
you're spending the taxpayers' money.

[RonB]

Post by rbowman

Post by RonB
Second, do you really think important databases run on MicroSlop?
Windows might be the front-end, but I'm willing to bet that most
corporations run SQL under Linux servers for their important records.
You've heard of Oracle,
right? (Not endorsing them, but they're the world's largest database
company, I believe. They have their own "flavor" of Red Hat.)

PosgresSQL is making inroads. Oracle licenses are not cheap and support is
an extra cost option; Postgres is free. Most of our clients use SQL
Server. Not as robust as Oracle or expensive although it's not cheap. The
only RFP that required Oracle was from the DOI. Nothing is too good when
you're spending the taxpayers' money.

I'm not a fan of Oracle's boss, so any substitute for it sounds great to me.

[CrudeSausage]

Post by RonB

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by rbowman

Post by RonB

Post by Sn!pe

Post by RonB
The reason they use Windows is because it runs Microsoft Office (and
businesses are "married" to this crap) and Microsoft's has leverage
with the computer manufacturers. Monopolies have a lot of inertia
that's hard to overcome. But you'll note that, for development
purposes, Microsoft is now including Linux in Windows. There's a
reason for that. And, as software moves to the "rental" phase and more
and more of the applications move to the "Cloud", there will be less
and less necessity to use Windows.

No purchasing manager was ever fired for specifying Microsoft.

I wouldn't bet on it.

Leaving out the cloud I have to agree. Microsoft and the availability of
Microsoft Certified Whatevers makes pointy headed bosses sleep better at
night.

It's the same argument as the one that was made as to why IBM won over
superior platforms in the 1980s. At the very least, anyone who suggests
Microsoft can't be reprimanded because the boss knows that they will be
able to find a ton of people who can use the well-known software as well
as a ton of techs who can troubleshoot it. Even if they can't afford
that staff, there is lots of help online for most problems if they
search for it. That doesn't mean that the operating system is
necessarily better; it simply means that businesses take a lot less risk
in choosing one over the other.
I've always mentioned that I believe that in fields like education and
finance, everyone would be better off using open-source though. For
finance, you need a robust kernel and a filesystem which resists bit-rot
to keep those records. There shouldn't be a need to back up data daily
for fear that your records will corrupt (even though it is still clearly
smart to do so). Similarly, in education, if the public system desires
removing all financial barriers to learning, doesn't it make sense to
run an operating system which can be deployed to even the most
affordable hardware at no performance penalty and prioritize the use of
software which can be downloaded at no charge? I've actually asked this
many times in the past and the answer has always been that maintaining
the Linux servers is more costly and time-consuming to the technicians.
I imagine that it is because the slightest change in configuration
causes chaos across the board.

First off, what happened to all those people who kept suggesting IBM was a
"no brainer" when it sank?

By the time IBM sank, all of the standards they have introduced except
for PS/2 (for mice and keyboards) had already been abandoned.
Third-parties were already making better PCs than IBM was so suggesting
that company was no longer necessary. However, even if people chose to
suggest IBM anyway, they would have gotten ThinkPads which were
spectacular computers. Only the IBM hard disks became notoriously awful
by the end.

Post by RonB
Second, do you really think important databases run on MicroSlop? Windows
might be the front-end, but I'm willing to bet that most corporations run
SQL under Linux servers for their important records. You've heard of Oracle,
right? (Not endorsing them, but they're the world's largest database
company, I believe. They have their own "flavor" of Red Hat.)

I'm becoming increasingly aware of how ubiquitous Linux is. Clearly, it
has made inroads in areas where failure is not an option. I'm not
against using it again, especially if sticking to Windows introduces new
issues like the fTPM stuttering I mentioned before (I don't think Linux
necessarily resolves this issue as much as offers ways to circumvent it
which are not available to Windows users).

[RonB]

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by RonB

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by rbowman

Post by RonB

Post by Sn!pe

Post by RonB
The reason they use Windows is because it runs Microsoft Office (and
businesses are "married" to this crap) and Microsoft's has leverage
with the computer manufacturers. Monopolies have a lot of inertia
that's hard to overcome. But you'll note that, for development
purposes, Microsoft is now including Linux in Windows. There's a
reason for that. And, as software moves to the "rental" phase and more
and more of the applications move to the "Cloud", there will be less
and less necessity to use Windows.

No purchasing manager was ever fired for specifying Microsoft.

I wouldn't bet on it.

Leaving out the cloud I have to agree. Microsoft and the availability of
Microsoft Certified Whatevers makes pointy headed bosses sleep better at
night.

It's the same argument as the one that was made as to why IBM won over
superior platforms in the 1980s. At the very least, anyone who suggests
Microsoft can't be reprimanded because the boss knows that they will be
able to find a ton of people who can use the well-known software as well
as a ton of techs who can troubleshoot it. Even if they can't afford
that staff, there is lots of help online for most problems if they
search for it. That doesn't mean that the operating system is
necessarily better; it simply means that businesses take a lot less risk
in choosing one over the other.
I've always mentioned that I believe that in fields like education and
finance, everyone would be better off using open-source though. For
finance, you need a robust kernel and a filesystem which resists bit-rot
to keep those records. There shouldn't be a need to back up data daily
for fear that your records will corrupt (even though it is still clearly
smart to do so). Similarly, in education, if the public system desires
removing all financial barriers to learning, doesn't it make sense to
run an operating system which can be deployed to even the most
affordable hardware at no performance penalty and prioritize the use of
software which can be downloaded at no charge? I've actually asked this
many times in the past and the answer has always been that maintaining
the Linux servers is more costly and time-consuming to the technicians.
I imagine that it is because the slightest change in configuration
causes chaos across the board.

First off, what happened to all those people who kept suggesting IBM was a
"no brainer" when it sank?

By the time IBM sank, all of the standards they have introduced except
for PS/2 (for mice and keyboards) had already been abandoned.
Third-parties were already making better PCs than IBM was so suggesting
that company was no longer necessary. However, even if people chose to
suggest IBM anyway, they would have gotten ThinkPads which were
spectacular computers. Only the IBM hard disks became notoriously awful
by the end.

I just brought up IBM because they used to say the same thing about them.
"You can't go wrong suggesting IBM."

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by RonB
Second, do you really think important databases run on MicroSlop? Windows
might be the front-end, but I'm willing to bet that most corporations run
SQL under Linux servers for their important records. You've heard of Oracle,
right? (Not endorsing them, but they're the world's largest database
company, I believe. They have their own "flavor" of Red Hat.)

I'm becoming increasingly aware of how ubiquitous Linux is. Clearly, it
has made inroads in areas where failure is not an option. I'm not
against using it again, especially if sticking to Windows introduces new
issues like the fTPM stuttering I mentioned before (I don't think Linux
necessarily resolves this issue as much as offers ways to circumvent it
which are not available to Windows users).

I'm getting to the point where I'm not so much a Linux advocate. When
someone says they like Windows better, I just kind of shrug my shoulders and
say, "Okay." The only that bothers me is when I'm told that Linux is hard to
use, or requires constant tweaking. That's simply not the case for me. Never
has been (at least from 2007 when I started using it as my main OS). There
were challenges in the 90s and early 2000s. (Which is partly why I didn't
stick with it until about 2007.)

[rbowman]

Post by RonB
I'm getting to the point where I'm not so much a Linux advocate. When
someone says they like Windows better, I just kind of shrug my shoulders
and say, "Okay." The only that bothers me is when I'm told that Linux is
hard to use, or requires constant tweaking. That's simply not the case
for me. Never has been (at least from 2007 when I started using it as my
main OS). There were challenges in the 90s and early 2000s. (Which is
partly why I didn't stick with it until about 2007.)

As I've mentioned I use both Windows and various Linux distros with very
much the same workload on both OSs. Unless you persistently screw yourself
like FuddNut, I don't see any difference in usability. Sure, you can get
into Linux esoterica but it isn't a necessity like it was 25 years ago.

I built an application from a tarball last week but that was the
exception. It was rtl_433 a program that uses a RTL_SDR dongle to pick up
the 433 MHz packets sent by TPMS sensors, among other odd tihngs that use
the unlicensed frequencies.

[Chris Ahlstrom]

Post by rbowman

Post by RonB
I'm getting to the point where I'm not so much a Linux advocate. When
someone says they like Windows better, I just kind of shrug my shoulders
and say, "Okay." The only that bothers me is when I'm told that Linux is
hard to use, or requires constant tweaking. That's simply not the case
for me. Never has been (at least from 2007 when I started using it as my
main OS). There were challenges in the 90s and early 2000s. (Which is
partly why I didn't stick with it until about 2007.)

As I've mentioned I use both Windows and various Linux distros with very
much the same workload on both OSs. Unless you persistently screw yourself
like FuddNut, I don't see any difference in usability. Sure, you can get
into Linux esoterica but it isn't a necessity like it was 25 years ago.

I see a big difference in usability, because I can completely customize Linux
to my workflow. Windows? No so much.

Merry Christmas!

[Andrzej Matuch]

Post by Chris Ahlstrom

Post by rbowman

Post by RonB
I'm getting to the point where I'm not so much a Linux advocate. When
someone says they like Windows better, I just kind of shrug my shoulders
and say, "Okay." The only that bothers me is when I'm told that Linux is
hard to use, or requires constant tweaking. That's simply not the case
for me. Never has been (at least from 2007 when I started using it as my
main OS). There were challenges in the 90s and early 2000s. (Which is
partly why I didn't stick with it until about 2007.)

As I've mentioned I use both Windows and various Linux distros with very
much the same workload on both OSs. Unless you persistently screw yourself
like FuddNut, I don't see any difference in usability. Sure, you can get
into Linux esoterica but it isn't a necessity like it was 25 years ago.

I see a big difference in usability, because I can completely customize Linux
to my workflow. Windows? No so much.
Merry Christmas!

Unfortunately, Windows is indeed difficult to personalize, just like MacOS.

[Andrzej Matuch]

Post by RonB

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by RonB

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by rbowman

Post by RonB

Post by Sn!pe

Post by RonB
The reason they use Windows is because it runs Microsoft Office (and
businesses are "married" to this crap) and Microsoft's has leverage
with the computer manufacturers. Monopolies have a lot of inertia
that's hard to overcome. But you'll note that, for development
purposes, Microsoft is now including Linux in Windows. There's a
reason for that. And, as software moves to the "rental" phase and more
and more of the applications move to the "Cloud", there will be less
and less necessity to use Windows.

No purchasing manager was ever fired for specifying Microsoft.

I wouldn't bet on it.

Leaving out the cloud I have to agree. Microsoft and the availability of
Microsoft Certified Whatevers makes pointy headed bosses sleep better at
night.

It's the same argument as the one that was made as to why IBM won over
superior platforms in the 1980s. At the very least, anyone who suggests
Microsoft can't be reprimanded because the boss knows that they will be
able to find a ton of people who can use the well-known software as well
as a ton of techs who can troubleshoot it. Even if they can't afford
that staff, there is lots of help online for most problems if they
search for it. That doesn't mean that the operating system is
necessarily better; it simply means that businesses take a lot less risk
in choosing one over the other.
I've always mentioned that I believe that in fields like education and
finance, everyone would be better off using open-source though. For
finance, you need a robust kernel and a filesystem which resists bit-rot
to keep those records. There shouldn't be a need to back up data daily
for fear that your records will corrupt (even though it is still clearly
smart to do so). Similarly, in education, if the public system desires
removing all financial barriers to learning, doesn't it make sense to
run an operating system which can be deployed to even the most
affordable hardware at no performance penalty and prioritize the use of
software which can be downloaded at no charge? I've actually asked this
many times in the past and the answer has always been that maintaining
the Linux servers is more costly and time-consuming to the technicians.
I imagine that it is because the slightest change in configuration
causes chaos across the board.

First off, what happened to all those people who kept suggesting IBM was a
"no brainer" when it sank?

By the time IBM sank, all of the standards they have introduced except
for PS/2 (for mice and keyboards) had already been abandoned.
Third-parties were already making better PCs than IBM was so suggesting
that company was no longer necessary. However, even if people chose to
suggest IBM anyway, they would have gotten ThinkPads which were
spectacular computers. Only the IBM hard disks became notoriously awful
by the end.

I just brought up IBM because they used to say the same thing about them.
"You can't go wrong suggesting IBM."

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by RonB
Second, do you really think important databases run on MicroSlop? Windows
might be the front-end, but I'm willing to bet that most corporations run
SQL under Linux servers for their important records. You've heard of Oracle,
right? (Not endorsing them, but they're the world's largest database
company, I believe. They have their own "flavor" of Red Hat.)

I'm becoming increasingly aware of how ubiquitous Linux is. Clearly, it
has made inroads in areas where failure is not an option. I'm not
against using it again, especially if sticking to Windows introduces new
issues like the fTPM stuttering I mentioned before (I don't think Linux
necessarily resolves this issue as much as offers ways to circumvent it
which are not available to Windows users).

I'm getting to the point where I'm not so much a Linux advocate. When
someone says they like Windows better, I just kind of shrug my shoulders and
say, "Okay." The only that bothers me is when I'm told that Linux is hard to
use, or requires constant tweaking. That's simply not the case for me. Never
has been (at least from 2007 when I started using it as my main OS). There
were challenges in the 90s and early 2000s. (Which is partly why I didn't
stick with it until about 2007.)

I'll be honest: Linux is easier to set up on hardware than Windows. In
fact, even hardware encryption is easier to set up on Linux than it is
on Windows. I just wish I hadn't already gone through the process with
Microsoft's OS because I'm at a loss as to how to "take ownership" of my
nvme to complete the encryption process in Linux. Despite the fact that
the nvme's PSID was reverted and the drive was erased securely, it still
seems to have a tie to Windows. No matter.

[RonB]

Post by Andrzej Matuch

Post by RonB

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by RonB

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by rbowman

Post by RonB

Post by Sn!pe

Post by RonB
The reason they use Windows is because it runs Microsoft Office (and
businesses are "married" to this crap) and Microsoft's has leverage
with the computer manufacturers. Monopolies have a lot of inertia
that's hard to overcome. But you'll note that, for development
purposes, Microsoft is now including Linux in Windows. There's a
reason for that. And, as software moves to the "rental" phase and more
and more of the applications move to the "Cloud", there will be less
and less necessity to use Windows.

No purchasing manager was ever fired for specifying Microsoft.

I wouldn't bet on it.

Leaving out the cloud I have to agree. Microsoft and the availability of
Microsoft Certified Whatevers makes pointy headed bosses sleep better at
night.

It's the same argument as the one that was made as to why IBM won over
superior platforms in the 1980s. At the very least, anyone who suggests
Microsoft can't be reprimanded because the boss knows that they will be
able to find a ton of people who can use the well-known software as well
as a ton of techs who can troubleshoot it. Even if they can't afford
that staff, there is lots of help online for most problems if they
search for it. That doesn't mean that the operating system is
necessarily better; it simply means that businesses take a lot less risk
in choosing one over the other.
I've always mentioned that I believe that in fields like education and
finance, everyone would be better off using open-source though. For
finance, you need a robust kernel and a filesystem which resists bit-rot
to keep those records. There shouldn't be a need to back up data daily
for fear that your records will corrupt (even though it is still clearly
smart to do so). Similarly, in education, if the public system desires
removing all financial barriers to learning, doesn't it make sense to
run an operating system which can be deployed to even the most
affordable hardware at no performance penalty and prioritize the use of
software which can be downloaded at no charge? I've actually asked this
many times in the past and the answer has always been that maintaining
the Linux servers is more costly and time-consuming to the technicians.
I imagine that it is because the slightest change in configuration
causes chaos across the board.

First off, what happened to all those people who kept suggesting IBM was a
"no brainer" when it sank?

By the time IBM sank, all of the standards they have introduced except
for PS/2 (for mice and keyboards) had already been abandoned.
Third-parties were already making better PCs than IBM was so suggesting
that company was no longer necessary. However, even if people chose to
suggest IBM anyway, they would have gotten ThinkPads which were
spectacular computers. Only the IBM hard disks became notoriously awful
by the end.

I just brought up IBM because they used to say the same thing about them.
"You can't go wrong suggesting IBM."

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by RonB
Second, do you really think important databases run on MicroSlop? Windows
might be the front-end, but I'm willing to bet that most corporations run
SQL under Linux servers for their important records. You've heard of Oracle,
right? (Not endorsing them, but they're the world's largest database
company, I believe. They have their own "flavor" of Red Hat.)

I'm becoming increasingly aware of how ubiquitous Linux is. Clearly, it
has made inroads in areas where failure is not an option. I'm not
against using it again, especially if sticking to Windows introduces new
issues like the fTPM stuttering I mentioned before (I don't think Linux
necessarily resolves this issue as much as offers ways to circumvent it
which are not available to Windows users).

I'm getting to the point where I'm not so much a Linux advocate. When
someone says they like Windows better, I just kind of shrug my shoulders and
say, "Okay." The only that bothers me is when I'm told that Linux is hard to
use, or requires constant tweaking. That's simply not the case for me. Never
has been (at least from 2007 when I started using it as my main OS). There
were challenges in the 90s and early 2000s. (Which is partly why I didn't
stick with it until about 2007.)

I'll be honest: Linux is easier to set up on hardware than Windows. In
fact, even hardware encryption is easier to set up on Linux than it is
on Windows. I just wish I hadn't already gone through the process with
Microsoft's OS because I'm at a loss as to how to "take ownership" of my
nvme to complete the encryption process in Linux. Despite the fact that
the nvme's PSID was reverted and the drive was erased securely, it still
seems to have a tie to Windows. No matter.

I stay away from encryption, so can't be any help here.

[Andrzej Matuch]

Post by RonB

Post by Andrzej Matuch

Post by RonB

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by RonB

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by rbowman

Post by RonB

Post by Sn!pe

Post by RonB
The reason they use Windows is because it runs Microsoft Office (and
businesses are "married" to this crap) and Microsoft's has leverage
with the computer manufacturers. Monopolies have a lot of inertia
that's hard to overcome. But you'll note that, for development
purposes, Microsoft is now including Linux in Windows. There's a
reason for that. And, as software moves to the "rental" phase and more
and more of the applications move to the "Cloud", there will be less
and less necessity to use Windows.

No purchasing manager was ever fired for specifying Microsoft.

I wouldn't bet on it.

Leaving out the cloud I have to agree. Microsoft and the availability of
Microsoft Certified Whatevers makes pointy headed bosses sleep better at
night.

It's the same argument as the one that was made as to why IBM won over
superior platforms in the 1980s. At the very least, anyone who suggests
Microsoft can't be reprimanded because the boss knows that they will be
able to find a ton of people who can use the well-known software as well
as a ton of techs who can troubleshoot it. Even if they can't afford
that staff, there is lots of help online for most problems if they
search for it. That doesn't mean that the operating system is
necessarily better; it simply means that businesses take a lot less risk
in choosing one over the other.
I've always mentioned that I believe that in fields like education and
finance, everyone would be better off using open-source though. For
finance, you need a robust kernel and a filesystem which resists bit-rot
to keep those records. There shouldn't be a need to back up data daily
for fear that your records will corrupt (even though it is still clearly
smart to do so). Similarly, in education, if the public system desires
removing all financial barriers to learning, doesn't it make sense to
run an operating system which can be deployed to even the most
affordable hardware at no performance penalty and prioritize the use of
software which can be downloaded at no charge? I've actually asked this
many times in the past and the answer has always been that maintaining
the Linux servers is more costly and time-consuming to the technicians.
I imagine that it is because the slightest change in configuration
causes chaos across the board.

First off, what happened to all those people who kept suggesting IBM was a
"no brainer" when it sank?

By the time IBM sank, all of the standards they have introduced except
for PS/2 (for mice and keyboards) had already been abandoned.
Third-parties were already making better PCs than IBM was so suggesting
that company was no longer necessary. However, even if people chose to
suggest IBM anyway, they would have gotten ThinkPads which were
spectacular computers. Only the IBM hard disks became notoriously awful
by the end.

I just brought up IBM because they used to say the same thing about them.
"You can't go wrong suggesting IBM."

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by RonB
Second, do you really think important databases run on MicroSlop? Windows
might be the front-end, but I'm willing to bet that most corporations run
SQL under Linux servers for their important records. You've heard of Oracle,
right? (Not endorsing them, but they're the world's largest database
company, I believe. They have their own "flavor" of Red Hat.)

I'm becoming increasingly aware of how ubiquitous Linux is. Clearly, it
has made inroads in areas where failure is not an option. I'm not
against using it again, especially if sticking to Windows introduces new
issues like the fTPM stuttering I mentioned before (I don't think Linux
necessarily resolves this issue as much as offers ways to circumvent it
which are not available to Windows users).

I'm getting to the point where I'm not so much a Linux advocate. When
someone says they like Windows better, I just kind of shrug my shoulders and
say, "Okay." The only that bothers me is when I'm told that Linux is hard to
use, or requires constant tweaking. That's simply not the case for me. Never
has been (at least from 2007 when I started using it as my main OS). There
were challenges in the 90s and early 2000s. (Which is partly why I didn't
stick with it until about 2007.)

I'll be honest: Linux is easier to set up on hardware than Windows. In
fact, even hardware encryption is easier to set up on Linux than it is
on Windows. I just wish I hadn't already gone through the process with
Microsoft's OS because I'm at a loss as to how to "take ownership" of my
nvme to complete the encryption process in Linux. Despite the fact that
the nvme's PSID was reverted and the drive was erased securely, it still
seems to have a tie to Windows. No matter.

I stay away from encryption, so can't be any help here.

Well, I'll be honest: the encryption almost caused me to lose access to
my computer entirely. You see, if your drive is hardware encrypted and
you suddenly decide to install Linux, you'll be able to delete the drive
but not install on it. I was lucky that I still had my Windows 2 Go
portable HD and could use Samsung Magician through it to revert the PSID
and do a secure erase. However, had I not had it, this storage and
computer would have suddenly become useless. It's a lot more trouble
than it is worth.

[RonB]

Post by Andrzej Matuch

Post by RonB

Post by Andrzej Matuch

Post by RonB

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by RonB

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by rbowman

Post by RonB

Post by Sn!pe

Post by RonB
The reason they use Windows is because it runs Microsoft Office (and
businesses are "married" to this crap) and Microsoft's has leverage
with the computer manufacturers. Monopolies have a lot of inertia
that's hard to overcome. But you'll note that, for development
purposes, Microsoft is now including Linux in Windows. There's a
reason for that. And, as software moves to the "rental" phase and more
and more of the applications move to the "Cloud", there will be less
and less necessity to use Windows.

No purchasing manager was ever fired for specifying Microsoft.

I wouldn't bet on it.

Leaving out the cloud I have to agree. Microsoft and the availability of
Microsoft Certified Whatevers makes pointy headed bosses sleep better at
night.

It's the same argument as the one that was made as to why IBM won over
superior platforms in the 1980s. At the very least, anyone who suggests
Microsoft can't be reprimanded because the boss knows that they will be
able to find a ton of people who can use the well-known software as well
as a ton of techs who can troubleshoot it. Even if they can't afford
that staff, there is lots of help online for most problems if they
search for it. That doesn't mean that the operating system is
necessarily better; it simply means that businesses take a lot less risk
in choosing one over the other.
I've always mentioned that I believe that in fields like education and
finance, everyone would be better off using open-source though. For
finance, you need a robust kernel and a filesystem which resists bit-rot
to keep those records. There shouldn't be a need to back up data daily
for fear that your records will corrupt (even though it is still clearly
smart to do so). Similarly, in education, if the public system desires
removing all financial barriers to learning, doesn't it make sense to
run an operating system which can be deployed to even the most
affordable hardware at no performance penalty and prioritize the use of
software which can be downloaded at no charge? I've actually asked this
many times in the past and the answer has always been that maintaining
the Linux servers is more costly and time-consuming to the technicians.
I imagine that it is because the slightest change in configuration
causes chaos across the board.

First off, what happened to all those people who kept suggesting IBM was a
"no brainer" when it sank?

By the time IBM sank, all of the standards they have introduced except
for PS/2 (for mice and keyboards) had already been abandoned.
Third-parties were already making better PCs than IBM was so suggesting
that company was no longer necessary. However, even if people chose to
suggest IBM anyway, they would have gotten ThinkPads which were
spectacular computers. Only the IBM hard disks became notoriously awful
by the end.

I just brought up IBM because they used to say the same thing about them.
"You can't go wrong suggesting IBM."

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by RonB
Second, do you really think important databases run on MicroSlop? Windows
might be the front-end, but I'm willing to bet that most corporations run
SQL under Linux servers for their important records. You've heard of Oracle,
right? (Not endorsing them, but they're the world's largest database
company, I believe. They have their own "flavor" of Red Hat.)

I'm becoming increasingly aware of how ubiquitous Linux is. Clearly, it
has made inroads in areas where failure is not an option. I'm not
against using it again, especially if sticking to Windows introduces new
issues like the fTPM stuttering I mentioned before (I don't think Linux
necessarily resolves this issue as much as offers ways to circumvent it
which are not available to Windows users).

I'm getting to the point where I'm not so much a Linux advocate. When
someone says they like Windows better, I just kind of shrug my shoulders and
say, "Okay." The only that bothers me is when I'm told that Linux is hard to
use, or requires constant tweaking. That's simply not the case for me. Never
has been (at least from 2007 when I started using it as my main OS). There
were challenges in the 90s and early 2000s. (Which is partly why I didn't
stick with it until about 2007.)

I'll be honest: Linux is easier to set up on hardware than Windows. In
fact, even hardware encryption is easier to set up on Linux than it is
on Windows. I just wish I hadn't already gone through the process with
Microsoft's OS because I'm at a loss as to how to "take ownership" of my
nvme to complete the encryption process in Linux. Despite the fact that
the nvme's PSID was reverted and the drive was erased securely, it still
seems to have a tie to Windows. No matter.

I stay away from encryption, so can't be any help here.

Well, I'll be honest: the encryption almost caused me to lose access to
my computer entirely. You see, if your drive is hardware encrypted and
you suddenly decide to install Linux, you'll be able to delete the drive
but not install on it. I was lucky that I still had my Windows 2 Go
portable HD and could use Samsung Magician through it to revert the PSID
and do a secure erase. However, had I not had it, this storage and
computer would have suddenly become useless. It's a lot more trouble
than it is worth.

That's been my (limited) experience.

[CrudeSausage]

Post by RonB

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by rbowman
https://www.wired.com/story/2024-was-the-year-the-bottom-fell-out-of-the-
games-industry/
I'd seen a few articles but never paid much attention. RPI put a lot of
effort into their video game degree program and thought the spinoffs might
revitalize the upstate NY economy. I wonder if they missed the boat or if
the industry will spring back?
Linux: who really cares if games run on Linux? It's a serious OS for
serious people.

If it were a serious operating system for serious people, businesses and
academic institutions would be willing to run it, and invest in the
people necessary to troubleshoot it. Instead, both have realized that
its free cost does not result in savings of any kind because the
problems it causes often can't be resolved by even the most gifted of
technical staff. That's why they use Windows, even with the security issues.

The reason they use Windows is because it runs Microsoft Office (and
businesses are "married" to this crap)

They do use Microsoft Office but there is no denying that it is superior
to what's available to Linux. Perhaps WPS Office can compete at some
level, but most people I know who use spreadsheet software say that
LibreOffice is sorely lacking in the functionality they use daily.
Additionally, they say that the functionality it does provide is nowhere
near the level of Microsoft's.

Post by RonB
and Microsoft's has leverage with the
computer manufacturers.

All of the blackmail of the early years worked wonders here, I'm sure.
Until the late 90s, competitors had much better software than what
Microsoft was selling but it didn't matter because of how strongly
Microsoft tied those companies to its products in the 80s.

Post by RonB
Monopolies have a lot of inertia that's hard to
overcome. But you'll note that, for development purposes, Microsoft is now
including Linux in Windows. There's a reason for that. And, as software
moves to the "rental" phase and more and more of the applications move to
the "Cloud", there will be less and less necessity to use Windows.
It will take a while though.

I'm sure that Linux is better for development. It has to be. However,
all the programmers I know love to use Microsoft's tools including .net
and DirectX. I have say to hear one programmer tell me that he enjoys or
wants to program in Linux. I'm not saying that it can't be done; I'm
saying they appreciate how easy Microsoft makes it.

[RonB]

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by RonB

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by rbowman
https://www.wired.com/story/2024-was-the-year-the-bottom-fell-out-of-the-
games-industry/
I'd seen a few articles but never paid much attention. RPI put a lot of
effort into their video game degree program and thought the spinoffs might
revitalize the upstate NY economy. I wonder if they missed the boat or if
the industry will spring back?
Linux: who really cares if games run on Linux? It's a serious OS for
serious people.

If it were a serious operating system for serious people, businesses and
academic institutions would be willing to run it, and invest in the
people necessary to troubleshoot it. Instead, both have realized that
its free cost does not result in savings of any kind because the
problems it causes often can't be resolved by even the most gifted of
technical staff. That's why they use Windows, even with the security issues.

The reason they use Windows is because it runs Microsoft Office (and
businesses are "married" to this crap)

They do use Microsoft Office but there is no denying that it is superior
to what's available to Linux. Perhaps WPS Office can compete at some
level, but most people I know who use spreadsheet software say that
LibreOffice is sorely lacking in the functionality they use daily.
Additionally, they say that the functionality it does provide is nowhere
near the level of Microsoft's.

I'm denying it. I despise MicroCrap Office. Worthless bloatware.

I used Calc in OpenOffice at work before LibreOffice ever existed. For my
purposes it worked fine. Spreadsheets are overused for data purposes anyhow.
If you want a database use a database software.

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by RonB
and Microsoft's has leverage with the
computer manufacturers.

All of the blackmail of the early years worked wonders here, I'm sure.
Until the late 90s, competitors had much better software than what
Microsoft was selling but it didn't matter because of how strongly
Microsoft tied those companies to its products in the 80s.

Yep.

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by RonB
Monopolies have a lot of inertia that's hard to
overcome. But you'll note that, for development purposes, Microsoft is now
including Linux in Windows. There's a reason for that. And, as software
moves to the "rental" phase and more and more of the applications move to
the "Cloud", there will be less and less necessity to use Windows.
It will take a while though.

I'm sure that Linux is better for development. It has to be. However,
all the programmers I know love to use Microsoft's tools including .net
and DirectX. I have say to hear one programmer tell me that he enjoys or
wants to program in Linux. I'm not saying that it can't be done; I'm
saying they appreciate how easy Microsoft makes it.

My brother programs Windows applications. He despises .NET and DirectX. He
liked Visual C++ when it was the "go to" development tool.

[rbowman]

Post by RonB
My brother programs Windows applications. He despises .NET and DirectX.
He liked Visual C++ when it was the "go to" development tool.

Peter Norton single handily wrote a library full of programming books so I
don't remember the exact titles but he was not a VC++/MFC fan to the point
where he used C in the book. MFC itself was a wrapper on the API so the
difference was mostly you had to handle the 'this' parameter when calling
the functions.

In the preface to an edition that was published when C# was becoming more
popular he said Microsoft had finally done it right. I am not a fan of VC+
+. I'm not current with the language but C++ itself was no picnic and
Microsoft's extensions didn't help. afx my ass.

[RonB]

Post by rbowman

Post by RonB
My brother programs Windows applications. He despises .NET and DirectX.
He liked Visual C++ when it was the "go to" development tool.

Peter Norton single handily wrote a library full of programming books so I
don't remember the exact titles but he was not a VC++/MFC fan to the point
where he used C in the book. MFC itself was a wrapper on the API so the
difference was mostly you had to handle the 'this' parameter when calling
the functions.
In the preface to an edition that was published when C# was becoming more
popular he said Microsoft had finally done it right. I am not a fan of VC+
+. I'm not current with the language but C++ itself was no picnic and
Microsoft's extensions didn't help. afx my ass.

I know nothing about programming. I'm pretty sure, though, that it was
Visual C++ that my brother liked the most. I know for certain that he
doesn't like the newest Microsoft stuff. He says it's crap.

[rbowman]

Post by RonB
I know nothing about programming. I'm pretty sure, though, that it was
Visual C++ that my brother liked the most. I know for certain that he
doesn't like the newest Microsoft stuff. He says it's crap.

Some is. I never warmed up to WPF and xaml and used Winforms for any GUIs
I had to do. Microsoft would dearly love to kill Winforms but there is too
much popular support. However ASP.NET which is the back end server part is
much cleaner in C#. Some of the bad taste for C++ involves WCF which is a
huge, sprawling pile of SOAP crap.

[RonB]

Post by rbowman

Post by RonB
I know nothing about programming. I'm pretty sure, though, that it was
Visual C++ that my brother liked the most. I know for certain that he
doesn't like the newest Microsoft stuff. He says it's crap.

Some is. I never warmed up to WPF and xaml and used Winforms for any GUIs
I had to do. Microsoft would dearly love to kill Winforms but there is too
much popular support. However ASP.NET which is the back end server part is
much cleaner in C#. Some of the bad taste for C++ involves WCF which is a
huge, sprawling pile of SOAP crap.

All of this is above my pay grade. I can't even learn Python.

[CrudeSausage]

Post by RonB

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by RonB

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by rbowman
https://www.wired.com/story/2024-was-the-year-the-bottom-fell-out-of-the-
games-industry/
I'd seen a few articles but never paid much attention. RPI put a lot of
effort into their video game degree program and thought the spinoffs might
revitalize the upstate NY economy. I wonder if they missed the boat or if
the industry will spring back?
Linux: who really cares if games run on Linux? It's a serious OS for
serious people.

If it were a serious operating system for serious people, businesses and
academic institutions would be willing to run it, and invest in the
people necessary to troubleshoot it. Instead, both have realized that
its free cost does not result in savings of any kind because the
problems it causes often can't be resolved by even the most gifted of
technical staff. That's why they use Windows, even with the security issues.

The reason they use Windows is because it runs Microsoft Office (and
businesses are "married" to this crap)

They do use Microsoft Office but there is no denying that it is superior
to what's available to Linux. Perhaps WPS Office can compete at some
level, but most people I know who use spreadsheet software say that
LibreOffice is sorely lacking in the functionality they use daily.
Additionally, they say that the functionality it does provide is nowhere
near the level of Microsoft's.

I'm denying it. I despise MicroCrap Office. Worthless bloatware.
I used Calc in OpenOffice at work before LibreOffice ever existed. For my
purposes it worked fine. Spreadsheets are overused for data purposes anyhow.
If you want a database use a database software.

Your opinion on spreadsheets and the software used to make them won't
sway people like my wife who calculates financial risk and needs to
report it to the investors. For people like her, Calc is not even up for
consideration because Microsoft's software is robust and has been
offering reliable service for decades. There were stronger competitors
to Excel than Calc in the past, competitors that had already made lots
of headway, and they too were left in the dust. It's not all because of
"shady business practises" either.

[RonB]

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by RonB

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by RonB

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by rbowman
https://www.wired.com/story/2024-was-the-year-the-bottom-fell-out-of-the-
games-industry/
I'd seen a few articles but never paid much attention. RPI put a lot of
effort into their video game degree program and thought the spinoffs might
revitalize the upstate NY economy. I wonder if they missed the boat or if
the industry will spring back?
Linux: who really cares if games run on Linux? It's a serious OS for
serious people.

If it were a serious operating system for serious people, businesses and
academic institutions would be willing to run it, and invest in the
people necessary to troubleshoot it. Instead, both have realized that
its free cost does not result in savings of any kind because the
problems it causes often can't be resolved by even the most gifted of
technical staff. That's why they use Windows, even with the security issues.

The reason they use Windows is because it runs Microsoft Office (and
businesses are "married" to this crap)

They do use Microsoft Office but there is no denying that it is superior
to what's available to Linux. Perhaps WPS Office can compete at some
level, but most people I know who use spreadsheet software say that
LibreOffice is sorely lacking in the functionality they use daily.
Additionally, they say that the functionality it does provide is nowhere
near the level of Microsoft's.

I'm denying it. I despise MicroCrap Office. Worthless bloatware.
I used Calc in OpenOffice at work before LibreOffice ever existed. For my
purposes it worked fine. Spreadsheets are overused for data purposes anyhow.
If you want a database use a database software.

Your opinion on spreadsheets and the software used to make them won't
sway people like my wife who calculates financial risk and needs to
report it to the investors. For people like her, Calc is not even up for
consideration because Microsoft's software is robust and has been
offering reliable service for decades. There were stronger competitors
to Excel than Calc in the past, competitors that had already made lots
of headway, and they too were left in the dust. It's not all because of
"shady business practises" either.

I don't think "robustness" has anything to do with it. I think it comes down
to what the others expect. It's basically a monopoly product and, as I
mentioned with Windows, monopolies have an inertia loop that's hard for
businesses to exit from. It has nothing to do with the supposed "quality" of
the product — it has everything to do with "this is what we're used to
using."

In my opinion M$ Office is bloated crapware that tries to "think" for you.
But I was only occasionally forced to use it so I never got in stuck in the
"inertia loop."

My wife uses Power Point. She originally used it because a template she
purchased only worked with Power Point. Now she's used to using it, so
she'll probably keep using it as long as she needs to prepare classes. Just
the way it works. People use what they're used to using. Inertia.

That's why so many still use the inferior Microsoft Windows crap OS.

[CrudeSausage]

Post by RonB

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by RonB

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by RonB

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by rbowman
https://www.wired.com/story/2024-was-the-year-the-bottom-fell-out-of-the-
games-industry/
I'd seen a few articles but never paid much attention. RPI put a lot of
effort into their video game degree program and thought the spinoffs might
revitalize the upstate NY economy. I wonder if they missed the boat or if
the industry will spring back?
Linux: who really cares if games run on Linux? It's a serious OS for
serious people.

If it were a serious operating system for serious people, businesses and
academic institutions would be willing to run it, and invest in the
people necessary to troubleshoot it. Instead, both have realized that
its free cost does not result in savings of any kind because the
problems it causes often can't be resolved by even the most gifted of
technical staff. That's why they use Windows, even with the security issues.

The reason they use Windows is because it runs Microsoft Office (and
businesses are "married" to this crap)

They do use Microsoft Office but there is no denying that it is superior
to what's available to Linux. Perhaps WPS Office can compete at some
level, but most people I know who use spreadsheet software say that
LibreOffice is sorely lacking in the functionality they use daily.
Additionally, they say that the functionality it does provide is nowhere
near the level of Microsoft's.

I'm denying it. I despise MicroCrap Office. Worthless bloatware.
I used Calc in OpenOffice at work before LibreOffice ever existed. For my
purposes it worked fine. Spreadsheets are overused for data purposes anyhow.
If you want a database use a database software.

Your opinion on spreadsheets and the software used to make them won't
sway people like my wife who calculates financial risk and needs to
report it to the investors. For people like her, Calc is not even up for
consideration because Microsoft's software is robust and has been
offering reliable service for decades. There were stronger competitors
to Excel than Calc in the past, competitors that had already made lots
of headway, and they too were left in the dust. It's not all because of
"shady business practises" either.

I don't think "robustness" has anything to do with it. I think it comes down
to what the others expect. It's basically a monopoly product and, as I
mentioned with Windows, monopolies have an inertia loop that's hard for
businesses to exit from. It has nothing to do with the supposed "quality" of
the product — it has everything to do with "this is what we're used to
using."

Well, I can tell you that there are certain advanced features people
need in Microsoft Office which seem to be unavailable to LibreOffice
users. Of course, they might just be somewhere else in the open suite,
like when I received a document with forms in .DOCX and had someone here
convert it to the equivalent in .ODT. At the same time, I don't use any
of the advanced features so LibreOffice has always been more than enough
for me. The only reason I use Microsoft's suite is because I got a
license for cheap. I can also use the 365 license I get from work for
free. Since I routinely receive documents from them to fill out, I have
no proper use for Libre.

Post by RonB
In my opinion M$ Office is bloated crapware that tries to "think" for you.
But I was only occasionally forced to use it so I never got in stuck in the
"inertia loop."

I would extend that to Windows itself too. The way it has implemented AI
makes it clear that they don't want you thinking. Of course, there are
certain places where I appreciate the AI like in Brave Search or Bing
Search. There, if there is a certain technological question like what is
the benefit of one monitor over another, the engine quickly scours the
web for information and summarizes the data for me. That is much easier
than navigating to a bunch of websites which cannon a series of ads at me.

Post by RonB
My wife uses Power Point. She originally used it because a template she
purchased only worked with Power Point. Now she's used to using it, so
she'll probably keep using it as long as she needs to prepare classes. Just
the way it works. People use what they're used to using. Inertia.
That's why so many still use the inferior Microsoft Windows crap OS.

I can't argue that habit plays a big part in what people choose to use.
At the same time, that's why I usually load Linux Mint for whatever user
I help: it's not that unfamiliar.

[RonB]

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by RonB

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by RonB

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by RonB

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by rbowman
https://www.wired.com/story/2024-was-the-year-the-bottom-fell-out-of-the-
games-industry/
I'd seen a few articles but never paid much attention. RPI put a lot of
effort into their video game degree program and thought the spinoffs might
revitalize the upstate NY economy. I wonder if they missed the boat or if
the industry will spring back?
Linux: who really cares if games run on Linux? It's a serious OS for
serious people.

If it were a serious operating system for serious people, businesses and
academic institutions would be willing to run it, and invest in the
people necessary to troubleshoot it. Instead, both have realized that
its free cost does not result in savings of any kind because the
problems it causes often can't be resolved by even the most gifted of
technical staff. That's why they use Windows, even with the security issues.

The reason they use Windows is because it runs Microsoft Office (and
businesses are "married" to this crap)

They do use Microsoft Office but there is no denying that it is superior
to what's available to Linux. Perhaps WPS Office can compete at some
level, but most people I know who use spreadsheet software say that
LibreOffice is sorely lacking in the functionality they use daily.
Additionally, they say that the functionality it does provide is nowhere
near the level of Microsoft's.

I'm denying it. I despise MicroCrap Office. Worthless bloatware.
I used Calc in OpenOffice at work before LibreOffice ever existed. For my
purposes it worked fine. Spreadsheets are overused for data purposes anyhow.
If you want a database use a database software.

Your opinion on spreadsheets and the software used to make them won't
sway people like my wife who calculates financial risk and needs to
report it to the investors. For people like her, Calc is not even up for
consideration because Microsoft's software is robust and has been
offering reliable service for decades. There were stronger competitors
to Excel than Calc in the past, competitors that had already made lots
of headway, and they too were left in the dust. It's not all because of
"shady business practises" either.

I don't think "robustness" has anything to do with it. I think it comes down
to what the others expect. It's basically a monopoly product and, as I
mentioned with Windows, monopolies have an inertia loop that's hard for
businesses to exit from. It has nothing to do with the supposed "quality" of
the product — it has everything to do with "this is what we're used to
using."

Well, I can tell you that there are certain advanced features people
need in Microsoft Office which seem to be unavailable to LibreOffice
users. Of course, they might just be somewhere else in the open suite,
like when I received a document with forms in .DOCX and had someone here
convert it to the equivalent in .ODT. At the same time, I don't use any
of the advanced features so LibreOffice has always been more than enough
for me. The only reason I use Microsoft's suite is because I got a
license for cheap. I can also use the 365 license I get from work for
free. Since I routinely receive documents from them to fill out, I have
no proper use for Libre.

I guess I've never had any use for these advanced features. All I know is
that, when we would get Word Documents at the print shop, we had a heck of a
time cleaning them up for Desk Top Application. Lot of hidden code.

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by RonB
In my opinion M$ Office is bloated crapware that tries to "think" for you.
But I was only occasionally forced to use it so I never got in stuck in the
"inertia loop."

I would extend that to Windows itself too. The way it has implemented AI
makes it clear that they don't want you thinking. Of course, there are
certain places where I appreciate the AI like in Brave Search or Bing
Search. There, if there is a certain technological question like what is
the benefit of one monitor over another, the engine quickly scours the
web for information and summarizes the data for me. That is much easier
than navigating to a bunch of websites which cannon a series of ads at me.

I turn off AI in my searches. I don't know about Brave or Bing, but in
Firefox you just add the udm14 add-on and AI results are gone in Google.

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by RonB
My wife uses Power Point. She originally used it because a template she
purchased only worked with Power Point. Now she's used to using it, so
she'll probably keep using it as long as she needs to prepare classes. Just
the way it works. People use what they're used to using. Inertia.
That's why so many still use the inferior Microsoft Windows crap OS.

I can't argue that habit plays a big part in what people choose to use.
At the same time, that's why I usually load Linux Mint for whatever user
I help: it's not that unfamiliar.

Linux Mint is often suggested for those moving from Windows because it does
work similarly (at least at the Desktop level). I'm sure that design is not
by accident.

[rbowman]

Post by RonB
I turn off AI in my searches. I don't know about Brave or Bing, but in
Firefox you just add the udm14 add-on and AI results are gone in Google.

The Brave search bar has an icon on the right edge 'Answer with AI' if you
want the chatter.

[Andrzej Matuch]

On 2024-12-24 04:39, RonB wrote:

< snip >

Post by RonB

Post by CrudeSausage
Well, I can tell you that there are certain advanced features people
need in Microsoft Office which seem to be unavailable to LibreOffice
users. Of course, they might just be somewhere else in the open suite,
like when I received a document with forms in .DOCX and had someone here
convert it to the equivalent in .ODT. At the same time, I don't use any
of the advanced features so LibreOffice has always been more than enough
for me. The only reason I use Microsoft's suite is because I got a
license for cheap. I can also use the 365 license I get from work for
free. Since I routinely receive documents from them to fill out, I have
no proper use for Libre.

I guess I've never had any use for these advanced features. All I know is
that, when we would get Word Documents at the print shop, we had a heck of a
time cleaning them up for Desk Top Application. Lot of hidden code.

I believe that is part of the reason why legal offices still prefer
WordPerfect Office over Microsoft's software.

Post by RonB

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by RonB
In my opinion M$ Office is bloated crapware that tries to "think" for you.
But I was only occasionally forced to use it so I never got in stuck in the
"inertia loop."

I would extend that to Windows itself too. The way it has implemented AI
makes it clear that they don't want you thinking. Of course, there are
certain places where I appreciate the AI like in Brave Search or Bing
Search. There, if there is a certain technological question like what is
the benefit of one monitor over another, the engine quickly scours the
web for information and summarizes the data for me. That is much easier
than navigating to a bunch of websites which cannon a series of ads at me.

I turn off AI in my searches. I don't know about Brave or Bing, but in
Firefox you just add the udm14 add-on and AI results are gone in Google.

I'm a big fan of Brave's AI, to be honest. When I was looking up the
fTPM problem I mentioned in a previous post, it saved me a lot of time
by telling me what people were saying, how to fix it, whether or not
Linux is affected and so on. Had I been forced to read all that content
on my own, I'd probably get discouraged. In fact, I might never have
learned that the Linux kernel actually addresses the problem and allows
you to circumvent the issue entirely.

Post by RonB

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by RonB
My wife uses Power Point. She originally used it because a template she
purchased only worked with Power Point. Now she's used to using it, so
she'll probably keep using it as long as she needs to prepare classes. Just
the way it works. People use what they're used to using. Inertia.
That's why so many still use the inferior Microsoft Windows crap OS.

I can't argue that habit plays a big part in what people choose to use.
At the same time, that's why I usually load Linux Mint for whatever user
I help: it's not that unfamiliar.

Linux Mint is often suggested for those moving from Windows because it does
work similarly (at least at the Desktop level). I'm sure that design is not
by accident.

I chose Fedora this time around because www.asus-linux.org offers a
comprehensive guide for the distribution to make sure that everything
you want works as it should on your hardware. I chose the KDE flavour
and it more or less behaves like a snappier Windows.

[RonB]

Post by Andrzej Matuch
< snip >

Post by RonB

Post by CrudeSausage
Well, I can tell you that there are certain advanced features people
need in Microsoft Office which seem to be unavailable to LibreOffice
users. Of course, they might just be somewhere else in the open suite,
like when I received a document with forms in .DOCX and had someone here
convert it to the equivalent in .ODT. At the same time, I don't use any
of the advanced features so LibreOffice has always been more than enough
for me. The only reason I use Microsoft's suite is because I got a
license for cheap. I can also use the 365 license I get from work for
free. Since I routinely receive documents from them to fill out, I have
no proper use for Libre.

I guess I've never had any use for these advanced features. All I know is
that, when we would get Word Documents at the print shop, we had a heck of a
time cleaning them up for Desk Top Application. Lot of hidden code.

I believe that is part of the reason why legal offices still prefer
WordPerfect Office over Microsoft's software.

I think WordPerfect also has special templates for lawyers. And, I'm
guessing, it's inertia thing again. WordPerfect got popular for lawyers, so
they keep using it.

Post by Andrzej Matuch

Post by RonB

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by RonB
In my opinion M$ Office is bloated crapware that tries to "think" for you.
But I was only occasionally forced to use it so I never got in stuck in the
"inertia loop."

I would extend that to Windows itself too. The way it has implemented AI
makes it clear that they don't want you thinking. Of course, there are
certain places where I appreciate the AI like in Brave Search or Bing
Search. There, if there is a certain technological question like what is
the benefit of one monitor over another, the engine quickly scours the
web for information and summarizes the data for me. That is much easier
than navigating to a bunch of websites which cannon a series of ads at me.

I turn off AI in my searches. I don't know about Brave or Bing, but in
Firefox you just add the udm14 add-on and AI results are gone in Google.

I'm a big fan of Brave's AI, to be honest. When I was looking up the
fTPM problem I mentioned in a previous post, it saved me a lot of time
by telling me what people were saying, how to fix it, whether or not
Linux is affected and so on. Had I been forced to read all that content
on my own, I'd probably get discouraged. In fact, I might never have
learned that the Linux kernel actually addresses the problem and allows
you to circumvent the issue entirely.

I've been using Firefox for so long that I don't think I would want to move
away from it. I can customize so it's very minimal and that's something I
_do_ do on new installs, get Firefox working the way I like it.

My impression of AI is just not very good. It always sounds like an
informercial to me. And it pisses me off that these AI server farms use as
much power as whole cities and not a damn peep (or very muted whining) about
it from the climate screechers — who keep trying to get us (personally) to
use less and less power. I guess the AI server farms are more important than
people.

Post by Andrzej Matuch

Post by RonB

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by RonB
My wife uses Power Point. She originally used it because a template she
purchased only worked with Power Point. Now she's used to using it, so
she'll probably keep using it as long as she needs to prepare classes. Just
the way it works. People use what they're used to using. Inertia.
That's why so many still use the inferior Microsoft Windows crap OS.

I can't argue that habit plays a big part in what people choose to use.
At the same time, that's why I usually load Linux Mint for whatever user
I help: it's not that unfamiliar.

Linux Mint is often suggested for those moving from Windows because it does
work similarly (at least at the Desktop level). I'm sure that design is not
by accident.

I chose Fedora this time around because www.asus-linux.org offers a
comprehensive guide for the distribution to make sure that everything
you want works as it should on your hardware. I chose the KDE flavour
and it more or less behaves like a snappier Windows.

I could use Fedora (especially with the Cinnamon spin) without much trouble.
Synaptic is better than Fedora's install application and Linux Mint has nice
little utilities built-in, but (for when it matters) you're trading "cutting
edge" for a little more convenience. (A trade I don't mind making.) In
Linux Mint, if I install EasyEffects (for example), I'll have to use FlatPak
instead of the repository (at least in version 21). So there's pros and
cons.

[Andrzej Matuch]

Post by RonB

Post by Andrzej Matuch
< snip >

Post by RonB

Post by CrudeSausage
Well, I can tell you that there are certain advanced features people
need in Microsoft Office which seem to be unavailable to LibreOffice
users. Of course, they might just be somewhere else in the open suite,
like when I received a document with forms in .DOCX and had someone here
convert it to the equivalent in .ODT. At the same time, I don't use any
of the advanced features so LibreOffice has always been more than enough
for me. The only reason I use Microsoft's suite is because I got a
license for cheap. I can also use the 365 license I get from work for
free. Since I routinely receive documents from them to fill out, I have
no proper use for Libre.

I guess I've never had any use for these advanced features. All I know is
that, when we would get Word Documents at the print shop, we had a heck of a
time cleaning them up for Desk Top Application. Lot of hidden code.

I believe that is part of the reason why legal offices still prefer
WordPerfect Office over Microsoft's software.

I think WordPerfect also has special templates for lawyers. And, I'm
guessing, it's inertia thing again. WordPerfect got popular for lawyers, so
they keep using it.

That's probably true. I never got too far into using it because the
"legal" license I bought on eBay turned out not to be legal. One update
later and poof, no more functionality.

Post by RonB

Post by Andrzej Matuch

Post by RonB

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by RonB
In my opinion M$ Office is bloated crapware that tries to "think" for you.
But I was only occasionally forced to use it so I never got in stuck in the
"inertia loop."

I would extend that to Windows itself too. The way it has implemented AI
makes it clear that they don't want you thinking. Of course, there are
certain places where I appreciate the AI like in Brave Search or Bing
Search. There, if there is a certain technological question like what is
the benefit of one monitor over another, the engine quickly scours the
web for information and summarizes the data for me. That is much easier
than navigating to a bunch of websites which cannon a series of ads at me.

I turn off AI in my searches. I don't know about Brave or Bing, but in
Firefox you just add the udm14 add-on and AI results are gone in Google.

I'm a big fan of Brave's AI, to be honest. When I was looking up the
fTPM problem I mentioned in a previous post, it saved me a lot of time
by telling me what people were saying, how to fix it, whether or not
Linux is affected and so on. Had I been forced to read all that content
on my own, I'd probably get discouraged. In fact, I might never have
learned that the Linux kernel actually addresses the problem and allows
you to circumvent the issue entirely.

I've been using Firefox for so long that I don't think I would want to move
away from it. I can customize so it's very minimal and that's something I
_do_ do on new installs, get Firefox working the way I like it.
My impression of AI is just not very good. It always sounds like an
informercial to me. And it pisses me off that these AI server farms use as
much power as whole cities and not a damn peep (or very muted whining) about
it from the climate screechers — who keep trying to get us (personally) to
use less and less power. I guess the AI server farms are more important than
people.

I swore not to use Firefox but it looks like it's the best browser on
Linux if you don't want your dGPU to be used needlessly, and if you want
gestures to work as they should. Using Firefox, I can flick two fingers
back and forth to go to the previous web page or the next one, but it
doesn't work anywhere else. If I use Brave, it ignores the fact that I
don't want hardware acceleration too whereas Firefox respects my wishes.

Post by RonB

Post by Andrzej Matuch

Post by RonB

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by RonB
My wife uses Power Point. She originally used it because a template she
purchased only worked with Power Point. Now she's used to using it, so
she'll probably keep using it as long as she needs to prepare classes. Just
the way it works. People use what they're used to using. Inertia.
That's why so many still use the inferior Microsoft Windows crap OS.

I can't argue that habit plays a big part in what people choose to use.
At the same time, that's why I usually load Linux Mint for whatever user
I help: it's not that unfamiliar.

Linux Mint is often suggested for those moving from Windows because it does
work similarly (at least at the Desktop level). I'm sure that design is not
by accident.

I chose Fedora this time around because www.asus-linux.org offers a
comprehensive guide for the distribution to make sure that everything
you want works as it should on your hardware. I chose the KDE flavour
and it more or less behaves like a snappier Windows.

I could use Fedora (especially with the Cinnamon spin) without much trouble.
Synaptic is better than Fedora's install application and Linux Mint has nice
little utilities built-in, but (for when it matters) you're trading "cutting
edge" for a little more convenience. (A trade I don't mind making.) In
Linux Mint, if I install EasyEffects (for example), I'll have to use FlatPak
instead of the repository (at least in version 21). So there's pros and
cons.

You have the same kind of choice in Fedora as it relates to Flatpaks and
the rest. It's actually kind of annoying when you're looking for
applications because you're never sure which version will integrate best
with the rest of your system.

[RonB]

Post by Andrzej Matuch

Post by RonB

Post by Andrzej Matuch
< snip >

Post by RonB

Post by CrudeSausage
Well, I can tell you that there are certain advanced features people
need in Microsoft Office which seem to be unavailable to LibreOffice
users. Of course, they might just be somewhere else in the open suite,
like when I received a document with forms in .DOCX and had someone here
convert it to the equivalent in .ODT. At the same time, I don't use any
of the advanced features so LibreOffice has always been more than enough
for me. The only reason I use Microsoft's suite is because I got a
license for cheap. I can also use the 365 license I get from work for
free. Since I routinely receive documents from them to fill out, I have
no proper use for Libre.

I guess I've never had any use for these advanced features. All I know is
that, when we would get Word Documents at the print shop, we had a heck of a
time cleaning them up for Desk Top Application. Lot of hidden code.

I believe that is part of the reason why legal offices still prefer
WordPerfect Office over Microsoft's software.

I think WordPerfect also has special templates for lawyers. And, I'm
guessing, it's inertia thing again. WordPerfect got popular for lawyers, so
they keep using it.

That's probably true. I never got too far into using it because the
"legal" license I bought on eBay turned out not to be legal. One update
later and poof, no more functionality.

Sorry to hear that. I, personally, never was a big WordPerfect fan. My
"favorite" Windows word processor was WordPro, but usually used WordStar 7
for DOS. (Still do in DOBox-X.)

Post by Andrzej Matuch

Post by RonB

Post by Andrzej Matuch

Post by RonB

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by RonB
In my opinion M$ Office is bloated crapware that tries to "think" for you.
But I was only occasionally forced to use it so I never got in stuck in the
"inertia loop."

I would extend that to Windows itself too. The way it has implemented AI
makes it clear that they don't want you thinking. Of course, there are
certain places where I appreciate the AI like in Brave Search or Bing
Search. There, if there is a certain technological question like what is
the benefit of one monitor over another, the engine quickly scours the
web for information and summarizes the data for me. That is much easier
than navigating to a bunch of websites which cannon a series of ads at me.

I turn off AI in my searches. I don't know about Brave or Bing, but in
Firefox you just add the udm14 add-on and AI results are gone in Google.

I'm a big fan of Brave's AI, to be honest. When I was looking up the
fTPM problem I mentioned in a previous post, it saved me a lot of time
by telling me what people were saying, how to fix it, whether or not
Linux is affected and so on. Had I been forced to read all that content
on my own, I'd probably get discouraged. In fact, I might never have
learned that the Linux kernel actually addresses the problem and allows
you to circumvent the issue entirely.

I've been using Firefox for so long that I don't think I would want to move
away from it. I can customize so it's very minimal and that's something I
_do_ do on new installs, get Firefox working the way I like it.
My impression of AI is just not very good. It always sounds like an
informercial to me. And it pisses me off that these AI server farms use as
much power as whole cities and not a damn peep (or very muted whining) about
it from the climate screechers — who keep trying to get us (personally) to
use less and less power. I guess the AI server farms are more important than
people.

I swore not to use Firefox but it looks like it's the best browser on
Linux if you don't want your dGPU to be used needlessly, and if you want
gestures to work as they should. Using Firefox, I can flick two fingers
back and forth to go to the previous web page or the next one, but it
doesn't work anywhere else. If I use Brave, it ignores the fact that I
don't want hardware acceleration too whereas Firefox respects my wishes.

My brother is the same way about firefox. I've tried Brave and several
others, but I guess I'm a creature of habit. I don't do any of the fancy
gestures, however. And uBlock Origin (the full version) works well in
Firefox.

Post by Andrzej Matuch

Post by RonB

Post by Andrzej Matuch

Post by RonB

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by RonB
My wife uses Power Point. She originally used it because a template she
purchased only worked with Power Point. Now she's used to using it, so
she'll probably keep using it as long as she needs to prepare classes. Just
the way it works. People use what they're used to using. Inertia.
That's why so many still use the inferior Microsoft Windows crap OS.

I can't argue that habit plays a big part in what people choose to use.
At the same time, that's why I usually load Linux Mint for whatever user
I help: it's not that unfamiliar.

Linux Mint is often suggested for those moving from Windows because it does
work similarly (at least at the Desktop level). I'm sure that design is not
by accident.

I chose Fedora this time around because www.asus-linux.org offers a
comprehensive guide for the distribution to make sure that everything
you want works as it should on your hardware. I chose the KDE flavour
and it more or less behaves like a snappier Windows.

I could use Fedora (especially with the Cinnamon spin) without much trouble.
Synaptic is better than Fedora's install application and Linux Mint has nice
little utilities built-in, but (for when it matters) you're trading "cutting
edge" for a little more convenience. (A trade I don't mind making.) In
Linux Mint, if I install EasyEffects (for example), I'll have to use FlatPak
instead of the repository (at least in version 21). So there's pros and
cons.

You have the same kind of choice in Fedora as it relates to Flatpaks and
the rest. It's actually kind of annoying when you're looking for
applications because you're never sure which version will integrate best
with the rest of your system.

I'm figuring out FlatPaks. Basically all the configuration files are in
/.var (in your home directory) and /var in the root directory. I still try
to find the application in the repository first.

[Andrzej Matuch]

Post by RonB

Post by Andrzej Matuch
That's probably true. I never got too far into using it because the
"legal" license I bought on eBay turned out not to be legal. One update
later and poof, no more functionality.

Sorry to hear that. I, personally, never was a big WordPerfect fan. My
"favorite" Windows word processor was WordPro, but usually used WordStar 7
for DOS. (Still do in DOBox-X.)

In the short time I used it, I thought it had the most outdated
interface. However, its dictionary features were superior to Microsoft's
and this is very important if you're writing.

Post by RonB

Post by Andrzej Matuch
I swore not to use Firefox but it looks like it's the best browser on
Linux if you don't want your dGPU to be used needlessly, and if you want
gestures to work as they should. Using Firefox, I can flick two fingers
back and forth to go to the previous web page or the next one, but it
doesn't work anywhere else. If I use Brave, it ignores the fact that I
don't want hardware acceleration too whereas Firefox respects my wishes.

My brother is the same way about firefox. I've tried Brave and several
others, but I guess I'm a creature of habit. I don't do any of the fancy
gestures, however. And uBlock Origin (the full version) works well in
Firefox.

And it will continue to work in Firefox because it won't be affected by
Google's decisions to stop supporting Manifest v2. People often forget
that the base for most browsers out there is developed by Google and
that they don't benefit in any way from people using an ad-blocker.

Post by RonB

Post by Andrzej Matuch
You have the same kind of choice in Fedora as it relates to Flatpaks and
the rest. It's actually kind of annoying when you're looking for
applications because you're never sure which version will integrate best
with the rest of your system.

I'm figuring out FlatPaks. Basically all the configuration files are in
/.var (in your home directory) and /var in the root directory. I still try
to find the application in the repository first.

The repository version is always going to be the fastest, but it is
likely to be outdated in some cases. That's part of why people prefer a
Flatpak which doesn't depend on the distribution developers to update
their package. It also has some additional security though I don't
believe that it is really all that effective.

[RonB]

Post by Andrzej Matuch

Post by RonB

Post by Andrzej Matuch
That's probably true. I never got too far into using it because the
"legal" license I bought on eBay turned out not to be legal. One update
later and poof, no more functionality.

Sorry to hear that. I, personally, never was a big WordPerfect fan. My
"favorite" Windows word processor was WordPro, but usually used WordStar 7
for DOS. (Still do in DOBox-X.)

In the short time I used it, I thought it had the most outdated
interface. However, its dictionary features were superior to Microsoft's
and this is very important if you're writing.

Post by RonB

Post by Andrzej Matuch
I swore not to use Firefox but it looks like it's the best browser on
Linux if you don't want your dGPU to be used needlessly, and if you want
gestures to work as they should. Using Firefox, I can flick two fingers
back and forth to go to the previous web page or the next one, but it
doesn't work anywhere else. If I use Brave, it ignores the fact that I
don't want hardware acceleration too whereas Firefox respects my wishes.

My brother is the same way about firefox. I've tried Brave and several
others, but I guess I'm a creature of habit. I don't do any of the fancy
gestures, however. And uBlock Origin (the full version) works well in
Firefox.

And it will continue to work in Firefox because it won't be affected by
Google's decisions to stop supporting Manifest v2. People often forget
that the base for most browsers out there is developed by Google and
that they don't benefit in any way from people using an ad-blocker.

Post by RonB

Post by Andrzej Matuch
You have the same kind of choice in Fedora as it relates to Flatpaks and
the rest. It's actually kind of annoying when you're looking for
applications because you're never sure which version will integrate best
with the rest of your system.

I'm figuring out FlatPaks. Basically all the configuration files are in
/.var (in your home directory) and /var in the root directory. I still try
to find the application in the repository first.

The repository version is always going to be the fastest, but it is
likely to be outdated in some cases. That's part of why people prefer a
Flatpak which doesn't depend on the distribution developers to update
their package. It also has some additional security though I don't
believe that it is really all that effective.

I understand. I use some FlatPaks specifically because they are newer.
Usually, though, I'll only use a FlatPak when the application is not
available in the repository.

[Andrzej Matuch]

Post by RonB

Post by Andrzej Matuch

Post by RonB

Post by Andrzej Matuch
That's probably true. I never got too far into using it because the
"legal" license I bought on eBay turned out not to be legal. One update
later and poof, no more functionality.

Sorry to hear that. I, personally, never was a big WordPerfect fan. My
"favorite" Windows word processor was WordPro, but usually used WordStar 7
for DOS. (Still do in DOBox-X.)

In the short time I used it, I thought it had the most outdated
interface. However, its dictionary features were superior to Microsoft's
and this is very important if you're writing.

Post by RonB

Post by Andrzej Matuch
I swore not to use Firefox but it looks like it's the best browser on
Linux if you don't want your dGPU to be used needlessly, and if you want
gestures to work as they should. Using Firefox, I can flick two fingers
back and forth to go to the previous web page or the next one, but it
doesn't work anywhere else. If I use Brave, it ignores the fact that I
don't want hardware acceleration too whereas Firefox respects my wishes.

My brother is the same way about firefox. I've tried Brave and several
others, but I guess I'm a creature of habit. I don't do any of the fancy
gestures, however. And uBlock Origin (the full version) works well in
Firefox.

And it will continue to work in Firefox because it won't be affected by
Google's decisions to stop supporting Manifest v2. People often forget
that the base for most browsers out there is developed by Google and
that they don't benefit in any way from people using an ad-blocker.

Post by RonB

Post by Andrzej Matuch
You have the same kind of choice in Fedora as it relates to Flatpaks and
the rest. It's actually kind of annoying when you're looking for
applications because you're never sure which version will integrate best
with the rest of your system.

I'm figuring out FlatPaks. Basically all the configuration files are in
/.var (in your home directory) and /var in the root directory. I still try
to find the application in the repository first.

The repository version is always going to be the fastest, but it is
likely to be outdated in some cases. That's part of why people prefer a
Flatpak which doesn't depend on the distribution developers to update
their package. It also has some additional security though I don't
believe that it is really all that effective.

I understand. I use some FlatPaks specifically because they are newer.
Usually, though, I'll only use a FlatPak when the application is not
available in the repository.

I just did the same thing, to be honest. There's nothing truly wrong
with Flatpak, but I like the increased performance of the repository
software so I removed whatever I could and put in the equivalent RPMs. I
was prompted to do so when I found out that getting Windows games to
work in Steam on Linux is easier using the native version. Red Dead
Redemption 2 already runs perfectly so I will have to get around to
completing it once I get bored of playing NHL 25 on the console.

[rbowman]

Post by RonB
I understand. I use some FlatPaks specifically because they are newer.
Usually, though, I'll only use a FlatPak when the application is not
available in the repository.

All I have for flatpaks are Arduino IDE v2, Brave, Vim and a bunch of
FreeDesktop stuff that I'm not even sure what it does. I have more apps
that are snaps, including Brave. Ubuntu seems more snap happy.

[chrisv]

(idiocy snipped)

Really? What does the NYSE run?

[CrudeSausage]

Post by chrisv

(idiocy snipped)

Really? What does the NYSE run?

I never looked into it. If it runs Linux, that's great. How that helps
to improve the user experience is up to you to explain.

[chrisv]

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by chrisv

(idiocy snipped)

Really? What does the NYSE run?

I never looked into it. If it runs Linux, that's great. How that helps
to improve the user experience is up to you to explain.

How a viable option of a robust and well-supported non-commercial OS
doesn't improve the user experience for millions for whom "the big
two" are inadequate is up to you to explain.

[CrudeSausage]

Post by chrisv

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by chrisv

(idiocy snipped)

Really? What does the NYSE run?

I never looked into it. If it runs Linux, that's great. How that helps
to improve the user experience is up to you to explain.

How a viable option of a robust and well-supported non-commercial OS
doesn't improve the user experience for millions for whom "the big
two" are inadequate is up to you to explain.

In other words, no answer.

[RonB]

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by chrisv

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by chrisv

(idiocy snipped)

Really? What does the NYSE run?

I never looked into it. If it runs Linux, that's great. How that helps
to improve the user experience is up to you to explain.

How a viable option of a robust and well-supported non-commercial OS
doesn't improve the user experience for millions for whom "the big
two" are inadequate is up to you to explain.

In other words, no answer.

There is no answer. An "improved user experience" is completely subjective (as
mentioned in an earlier post).

[RonB]

Post by chrisv

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by chrisv

(idiocy snipped)

Really? What does the NYSE run?

I never looked into it. If it runs Linux, that's great. How that helps
to improve the user experience is up to you to explain.

How a viable option of a robust and well-supported non-commercial OS
doesn't improve the user experience for millions for whom "the big
two" are inadequate is up to you to explain.

He thinks Windows is "prettier." I don't.

[CrudeSausage]

Post by RonB

Post by chrisv

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by chrisv

(idiocy snipped)

Really? What does the NYSE run?

I never looked into it. If it runs Linux, that's great. How that helps
to improve the user experience is up to you to explain.

How a viable option of a robust and well-supported non-commercial OS
doesn't improve the user experience for millions for whom "the big
two" are inadequate is up to you to explain.

He thinks Windows is "prettier." I don't.

It's more consistent, but I think that KDE is prettier. The mere fact
that KDE allows you to customize the interface however you want
including with effects makes it superior to Windows. When I inevitably
decide to torture myself with Linux again, especially if it has a
solution to fTPM stuttering which is unavailable to Windows without a
BIOS update, I'll probably install that again.

[RonB]

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by chrisv

(idiocy snipped)

Really? What does the NYSE run?

I never looked into it. If it runs Linux, that's great. How that helps
to improve the user experience is up to you to explain.

"Improved the user experience" is subjective. For me, the best "user
experience, when writing (for example), is working in non-GUI environment.
I'm sure that's not the case with most here. I'm guessing the "best" "user
experience" with the NYSE is whatever platform gets the users the
information they want in the shortest possible amount of time.

[CrudeSausage]

Post by RonB

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by chrisv

(idiocy snipped)

Really? What does the NYSE run?

I never looked into it. If it runs Linux, that's great. How that helps
to improve the user experience is up to you to explain.

"Improved the user experience" is subjective. For me, the best "user
experience, when writing (for example), is working in non-GUI environment.
I'm sure that's not the case with most here. I'm guessing the "best" "user
experience" with the NYSE is whatever platform gets the users the
information they want in the shortest possible amount of time.

I do admit that there are a lot of things I prefer doing in the command
line like batch converting images to a smaller size or converting Office
Open XML document to the truly open OpenDocument format. I'll admit that
Linux gives you a lot more flexibility to do so and that its
command-line tools are top-notch. Heck, doing any of what I mentioned in
Windows usually requires you to download some tool which tries to sucker
you into paying a monthly fee.

[-hh]

Post by CrudeSausage

(idiocy snipped)

Really?  What does the NYSE run?

I never looked into it. If it runs Linux, that's great. How that helps
to improve the user experience is up to you to explain.

Sounds like some lame deflection attempt into what *nix flavor is on the
mainframe servers...

But for the traders, the Industry Standard is the Bloomberg Terminal.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloomberg_Terminal>


The Bloomberg Terminal runs on Windows OS.


-hh

[Chris Ahlstrom]

Post by -hh

Post by CrudeSausage

(idiocy snipped)

Really?  What does the NYSE run?

I never looked into it. If it runs Linux, that's great. How that helps
to improve the user experience is up to you to explain.

Sounds like some lame deflection attempt into what *nix flavor is on the
mainframe servers...
But for the traders, the Industry Standard is the Bloomberg Terminal.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloomberg_Terminal>
The Bloomberg Terminal runs on Windows OS.

What about the London Stock Exchange?

[-hh]

Post by Chris Ahlstrom

Post by -hh

Post by CrudeSausage

(idiocy snipped)

Really?  What does the NYSE run?

I never looked into it. If it runs Linux, that's great. How that helps
to improve the user experience is up to you to explain.

Sounds like some lame deflection attempt into what *nix flavor is on the
mainframe servers...
But for the traders, the Industry Standard is the Bloomberg Terminal.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloomberg_Terminal>
The Bloomberg Terminal runs on Windows OS.

What about the London Stock Exchange?

Hadn't really thought about it...


...but Google does provide this:


"London Stock Exchange goes after Bloomberg’s data crown with Microsoft deal

Deal strengthens challenge to Bloomberg’s financial data business,
analysts say

By Josh Mitchell
Friday 23 December 2022 at 06:56"

<https://www.fnlondon.com/articles/london-stock-exchange-goes-after-bloombergs-data-crown-with-microsoft-deal-20221223>



-hh

[RonB]

Post by rbowman
https://www.wired.com/story/2024-was-the-year-the-bottom-fell-out-of-the-
games-industry/
I'd seen a few articles but never paid much attention. RPI put a lot of
effort into their video game degree program and thought the spinoffs might
revitalize the upstate NY economy. I wonder if they missed the boat or if
the industry will spring back?
Linux: who really cares if games run on Linux? It's a serious OS for
serious people.

I dont care about games, but a lot of people do.

[vallor]

Post by rbowman
https://www.wired.com/story/2024-was-the-year-the-bottom-fell-out-of-

the-

Post by rbowman
games-industry/
I'd seen a few articles but never paid much attention. RPI put a lot of
effort into their video game degree program and thought the spinoffs
might revitalize the upstate NY economy. I wonder if they missed the
boat or if the industry will spring back?
Linux: who really cares if games run on Linux? It's a serious OS for
serious people.

One of the best ways to really crank on a kernel is to run a game.

And: All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

Some people stare at the boob toob. Some people game, which uses
the brain cells a bit more.

I play Elite Dangerous on Linux, which has just finished up a
banner year. I know that's the exception rather than the rule,
but a lot of players came back because of the new "Power Play 2.0"
that was added to the game recently. And the final Thargoid
mothership -- which took up station over Earth and was menacing
the Sol system -- is now no more.

Fly dangerous!

[chrisv]

Post by vallor
Some people stare at the boob toob. Some people game, which uses
the brain cells a bit more.

What? Don't you know that there's a "right way" to live life? People
don't need freedom and choice! /s

[Stéphane CARPENTIER]

Post by vallor
And: All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

Agreed. Now, a computer is not mandatory to play. There are other
possibilities.

[CrudeSausage]

Post by Stéphane CARPENTIER

Post by vallor
And: All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

Agreed. Now, a computer is not mandatory to play. There are other
possibilities.

I have to agree here. I just got a new monitor yesterday and both my
computer and Xbox Series S are plugged into it. I'm sure that the same
game running from the computer would look better than it does coming
from the console, but the games still look fantastic and I doubt that
some additional polygons would multiply the amount of fun one can have.
Besides, there are console exclusives like NHL that make it preferable.

[Stéphane CARPENTIER]

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by Stéphane CARPENTIER

Post by vallor
And: All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

Agreed. Now, a computer is not mandatory to play. There are other
possibilities.

I have to agree here. I just got a new monitor yesterday and both my
computer and Xbox Series S are plugged into it. I'm sure that the same
game running from the computer would look better than it does coming
from the console, but the games still look fantastic and I doubt that
some additional polygons would multiply the amount of fun one can have.
Besides, there are console exclusives like NHL that make it preferable.

A console is a computer. Like a smartphone. You can take a ball and play
with others outside. Or take come cards and play with others inside.
These are only two examples, the number of possibilities is huge. That's
what I mean when I say that a computer is not mandatory to play: video
games are only a part of what exists to play.

[RonB]

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by Stéphane CARPENTIER

Post by vallor
And: All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

Agreed. Now, a computer is not mandatory to play. There are other
possibilities.

I have to agree here. I just got a new monitor yesterday and both my
computer and Xbox Series S are plugged into it. I'm sure that the same
game running from the computer would look better than it does coming
from the console, but the games still look fantastic and I doubt that
some additional polygons would multiply the amount of fun one can have.
Besides, there are console exclusives like NHL that make it preferable.

My kids have tried to get me interested in some of the games they play. The
graphics are pretty impressive sometimes, but the games, themselves, often
seem kind of repetitious and boring. It seems like they're doing the same
thing, over and over again.

[rbowman]

Post by RonB
My kids have tried to get me interested in some of the games they play.
The graphics are pretty impressive sometimes, but the games, themselves,
often seem kind of repetitious and boring. It seems like they're doing
the same thing, over and over again.

I played a few I enjoyed. One of the Rainbow Six series, Call of Duty, and
Gears of War. The 'open' types like GTA or Assassin's Creed didn't do
anything for me. I guess I need more structure rather than wandering
around trying to figure out what I'm supposed to do.

[CrudeSausage]

Post by rbowman

Post by RonB
My kids have tried to get me interested in some of the games they play.
The graphics are pretty impressive sometimes, but the games, themselves,
often seem kind of repetitious and boring. It seems like they're doing
the same thing, over and over again.

I played a few I enjoyed. One of the Rainbow Six series, Call of Duty, and
Gears of War. The 'open' types like GTA or Assassin's Creed didn't do
anything for me. I guess I need more structure rather than wandering
around trying to figure out what I'm supposed to do.

Funny enough, that's why I am not bothering to play more of Red Dead
Redemption 2 even though it is clearly a better game. I got to a point
which seems to give me the freedom to do whatever I want (which usually
also means endless conversations) so I uninstalled it until I eventually
have lots of time on my hands.

[CrudeSausage]

Post by RonB

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by Stéphane CARPENTIER

Post by vallor
And: All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

Agreed. Now, a computer is not mandatory to play. There are other
possibilities.

I have to agree here. I just got a new monitor yesterday and both my
computer and Xbox Series S are plugged into it. I'm sure that the same
game running from the computer would look better than it does coming
from the console, but the games still look fantastic and I doubt that
some additional polygons would multiply the amount of fun one can have.
Besides, there are console exclusives like NHL that make it preferable.

My kids have tried to get me interested in some of the games they play. The
graphics are pretty impressive sometimes, but the games, themselves, often
seem kind of repetitious and boring. It seems like they're doing the same
thing, over and over again.

I would tell you that the one game which might have a chance of
interesting you is Geometry Wars. It is simple, addictive, easy to
understand the first time you play and it should even work without issue
in Linux.

[RonB]

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by RonB

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by Stéphane CARPENTIER

Post by vallor
And: All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

Agreed. Now, a computer is not mandatory to play. There are other
possibilities.

I have to agree here. I just got a new monitor yesterday and both my
computer and Xbox Series S are plugged into it. I'm sure that the same
game running from the computer would look better than it does coming
from the console, but the games still look fantastic and I doubt that
some additional polygons would multiply the amount of fun one can have.
Besides, there are console exclusives like NHL that make it preferable.

My kids have tried to get me interested in some of the games they play. The
graphics are pretty impressive sometimes, but the games, themselves, often
seem kind of repetitious and boring. It seems like they're doing the same
thing, over and over again.

I would tell you that the one game which might have a chance of
interesting you is Geometry Wars. It is simple, addictive, easy to
understand the first time you play and it should even work without issue
in Linux.

I never was very good at these kind of games. I haven't gotten any better as
I've aged. It looks kind of like a more elaborate version of Astroids from
the old arcade days.

[rbowman]

Post by RonB
I never was very good at these kind of games. I haven't gotten any
better as I've aged. It looks kind of like a more elaborate version of
Astroids from the old arcade days.

Like a good hacker I kept strange hours. I'd take a break at 2 or 3 AM,
walk over to the Stop'n'Rob that was the only thing open, get a cup of
coffee, and play a few rounds of Asteroids. I've found versions for the PC
and tablet but they're just not the same, particularly the audio.

[Andrzej Matuch]

Post by RonB

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by RonB

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by Stéphane CARPENTIER

Post by vallor
And: All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

Agreed. Now, a computer is not mandatory to play. There are other
possibilities.

I have to agree here. I just got a new monitor yesterday and both my
computer and Xbox Series S are plugged into it. I'm sure that the same
game running from the computer would look better than it does coming
from the console, but the games still look fantastic and I doubt that
some additional polygons would multiply the amount of fun one can have.
Besides, there are console exclusives like NHL that make it preferable.

My kids have tried to get me interested in some of the games they play. The
graphics are pretty impressive sometimes, but the games, themselves, often
seem kind of repetitious and boring. It seems like they're doing the same
thing, over and over again.

I would tell you that the one game which might have a chance of
interesting you is Geometry Wars. It is simple, addictive, easy to
understand the first time you play and it should even work without issue
in Linux.

I never was very good at these kind of games. I haven't gotten any better as
I've aged. It looks kind of like a more elaborate version of Astroids from
the old arcade days.

It is, but the fact that you have multiplier to amass points and a
constant barrage of enemies makes it a lot of fun as a casual game.

[RonB]

Post by Andrzej Matuch

Post by RonB

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by RonB

Post by CrudeSausage

Post by Stéphane CARPENTIER

Post by vallor
And: All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

Agreed. Now, a computer is not mandatory to play. There are other
possibilities.

I have to agree here. I just got a new monitor yesterday and both my
computer and Xbox Series S are plugged into it. I'm sure that the same
game running from the computer would look better than it does coming
from the console, but the games still look fantastic and I doubt that
some additional polygons would multiply the amount of fun one can have.
Besides, there are console exclusives like NHL that make it preferable.

My kids have tried to get me interested in some of the games they play. The
graphics are pretty impressive sometimes, but the games, themselves, often
seem kind of repetitious and boring. It seems like they're doing the same
thing, over and over again.

I would tell you that the one game which might have a chance of
interesting you is Geometry Wars. It is simple, addictive, easy to
understand the first time you play and it should even work without issue
in Linux.

I never was very good at these kind of games. I haven't gotten any better as
I've aged. It looks kind of like a more elaborate version of Astroids from
the old arcade days.

It is, but the fact that you have multiplier to amass points and a
constant barrage of enemies makes it a lot of fun as a casual game.

I'm fairly sure it would just be frustrating for me. But I'll look into it a
little more.