Linux advocacy

Post by vallor
Seems like there isn't much Linux advocacy going on.[*]
Maybe that's because, Linux just works, so much so that
it's even a bit boring.

My advocacy is pretty simple: there isn't another option. You have
macOS and Windows, neither of which are worth shit, or you have pure
Unix of some kind, and Linux is the leader in that.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Stéphane CARPENTIER

2024-09-28 09:38:01 UTC

Post by vallor
Seems like there isn't much Linux advocacy going on.[*]
Maybe that's because, Linux just works, so much so that
it's even a bit boring.

My advocacy is pretty simple: there isn't another option.

Redox, OpenBSD, FreeBSD, QubesOS and Hurd for example. OK, for Hurd it's
not yet ready. It will be. Soon. I hear it since thirty years it's
almost ready. So, one day it'll become true. Maybe. But if Redox is not
yet fully ready, it's far younger. QubesOS, FreeBSD and OpenBSD are well
proven ready.

Post by Joel
You have macOS and Windows, neither of which are worth shit, or you
have pure Unix of some kind, and Linux is the leader in that.

So, what? If the only choice is the leader, then the leader is Windows
and the only choice. Your argument is plain wrong because you are using
exactly what Windows users are using against Linux. You can't say the
argument is good towards Linux and wrong toward Windows. You have to
chose. And the only possibility is to refuse it.

The only argument is to don't care about what others are doing or whose
the leader is or whatever only followers unable to know what they want
can use. You chose what suits you best. And Linux is not the only
choice.

--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

-hh

2024-09-24 00:57:03 UTC

Post by vallor
Seems like there isn't much Linux advocacy going on.[*]
Maybe that's because, Linux just works, so much so that
it's even a bit boring.

Indeed, it has done well as the convergence OS for digital appliances.

Personally, I've just picked up some new home automation devices
(product line is "YoLink") which probably have the Linux kernel inside.

I'm planning on doing a factory reset to start fresh on one of the more
complicated ones .. in talking with their tech support, it seems that
there's a lot of extra goodies baked into the hardware device that's not
reflected the same on their mobile App, which might be the source of my
initial setup glitches.

In any event, my preference is to drive its programming controls fully
through the mobile App, and use the "push the buttons" programming on
the device only if it doesn't behave as the documentation says its
supposed to.

In semi-related news, found that a recently arrived neighbor has some
skills with Raspberry Pi, such as having reflashed his Wyze WiFi cameras
to break them off of their network ($$) to run them locally.

-hh

Lawrence D'Oliveiro

2024-09-24 01:09:18 UTC

Post by -hh
Personally, I've just picked up some new home automation devices
(product line is "YoLink") which probably have the Linux kernel inside.

If they have Linux (or any other GPL code), then they are obliged to have
contact details (e.g. links on a website) as to where you can get the
source code.

While I was looking up info on my TP-Link router, I was quite pleased to
see they had a note on their website as to whom you could contact if you
felt they were not living up to their GPL obligations.

-hh

2024-09-24 01:26:22 UTC

Post by -hh
Personally, I've just picked up some new home automation devices
(product line is "YoLink") which probably have the Linux kernel inside.

If they have Linux (or any other GPL code), then they are obliged to have
contact details (e.g. links on a website) as to where you can get the
source code.

I really don't care all that much about what OS is in such appliances,
but named what it was, so that the hardcore fanboys can go run & check.

-hh

vallor

2024-09-24 03:04:55 UTC

On Tue, 24 Sep 2024 01:09:18 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro

Post by -hh
Personally, I've just picked up some new home automation devices
(product line is "YoLink") which probably have the Linux kernel inside.

If they have Linux (or any other GPL code), then they are obliged to have
contact details (e.g. links on a website) as to where you can get the
source code.
While I was looking up info on my TP-Link router, I was quite pleased to
see they had a note on their website as to whom you could contact if you
felt they were not living up to their GPL obligations.

We have the "NAV" package in our Subaru Ascent, and in
the menus it includes licenses -- including the GPL, for
one of the libraries it uses (JPEG, iirc).

--
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
OS: Linux 6.11.0 Release: Mint 21.3 Mem: 258G
"The best way to keep friends is not to give them away."

Sn!pe

2024-09-24 13:20:02 UTC

Post by vallor
Seems like there isn't much Linux advocacy going on.[*]
Maybe that's because, Linux just works,

Yay! That's been true of Mac OS for many years;
congrats to the Linux world for finally catching on.

Post by vallor
so much so that it's even a bit boring.

A 'puter is supposed to be a tool to do a job,
the underpinnings should ideally be unnoticeable.

IMO 'puter hobbyists are mostly deviants.

--
^Ï^. Sn!pe, PTB, FIBS, Pro Crastinator

My pet rock Gordon just is.

Joel

2024-09-24 16:00:12 UTC

Post by vallor
Seems like there isn't much Linux advocacy going on.[*]
Maybe that's because, Linux just works,

Yay! That's been true of Mac OS for many years;
congrats to the Linux world for finally catching on.

Then go to CSMA and waste your breath praising that overpriced
crapware.

Post by vallor
so much so that it's even a bit boring.

A 'puter is supposed to be a tool to do a job,
the underpinnings should ideally be unnoticeable.
IMO 'puter hobbyists are mostly deviants.

Retarded.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

vallor

2024-09-25 03:37:32 UTC

Post by vallor
Seems like there isn't much Linux advocacy going on.[*]
Maybe that's because, Linux just works,

Yay! That's been true of Mac OS for many years;
congrats to the Linux world for finally catching on.

Then go to CSMA and waste your breath praising that overpriced
crapware.

Post by vallor
so much so that it's even a bit boring.

A 'puter is supposed to be a tool to do a job,
the underpinnings should ideally be unnoticeable.
IMO 'puter hobbyists are mostly deviants.

Retarded.

Yes, you are.

Sn!pe is proper. You might not agree with him all
the time (I don't) but he's not a bad correspondent.

--
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
OS: Linux 6.11.0 Release: Mint 21.3 Mem: 258G
"Death is natures way of telling you to slow down."

Joel

2024-09-25 03:53:17 UTC

Post by vallor
Seems like there isn't much Linux advocacy going on.[*]
Maybe that's because, Linux just works,

Yay! That's been true of Mac OS for many years;
congrats to the Linux world for finally catching on.

Then go to CSMA and waste your breath praising that overpriced
crapware.

Post by vallor
so much so that it's even a bit boring.

A 'puter is supposed to be a tool to do a job,
the underpinnings should ideally be unnoticeable.
IMO 'puter hobbyists are mostly deviants.

Retarded.

Yes, you are.
Sn!pe is proper. You might not agree with him all
the time (I don't) but he's not a bad correspondent.

Oh shut the fuck up, white boy, you're the queerest piece of shit,
defending the MacTard. Why are you running Linux, then, fool, go buy
an iMac and an iPhone and an iWatch and iEveryFuckingThing, you
retarded monkey-ass goofball. Fuck off.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

vallor

2024-09-25 04:25:48 UTC

Post by vallor
Seems like there isn't much Linux advocacy going on.[*]
Maybe that's because, Linux just works,

Yay! That's been true of Mac OS for many years;
congrats to the Linux world for finally catching on.

Then go to CSMA and waste your breath praising that overpriced
crapware.

Post by vallor
so much so that it's even a bit boring.

A 'puter is supposed to be a tool to do a job,
the underpinnings should ideally be unnoticeable.
IMO 'puter hobbyists are mostly deviants.

Retarded.

Yes, you are.
Sn!pe is proper. You might not agree with him all
the time (I don't) but he's not a bad correspondent.

You on more drugs tonight?

--
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
OS: Linux 6.11.0 Release: Mint 21.3 Mem: 258G
"Bored? Drive the speed limit... in your garage."

Joel

2024-09-25 05:08:18 UTC

Post by Sn!pe
A 'puter is supposed to be a tool to do a job,
the underpinnings should ideally be unnoticeable.
IMO 'puter hobbyists are mostly deviants.

Retarded.

Yes, you are.
Sn!pe is proper. You might not agree with him all
the time (I don't) but he's not a bad correspondent.

You on more drugs tonight?

You not? I mean, shit, I was replying to someone who was talking crap
to you, and you took the opportunity to attack me and defend them,
just weird. And then when I flame you in response, you throw out the
drug trope. Just sad, how Caucasians, who aren't real n----s (yes, we
can be such, if we're not a dick), dwell in hell by default. It's why
there's a theory of black supremacy, superficially it would seem
backward, but in truth, blacks are God-like and whites are Satan-like.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

2024-09-25 16:17:21 UTC

Post by Joel
blacks are God-like and whites are Satan-like.

you are wigger like

DFS

2024-09-25 04:27:20 UTC

Post by vallor
Sn!pe is proper. You might not agree with him all
the time (I don't) but he's not a bad correspondent.

Joel's stumbling around drunk again.

rbowman

2024-09-25 05:03:00 UTC

Sn!pe is proper. You might not agree with him all the time (I don't)
but he's not a bad correspondent.

Joel's stumbling around drunk again.

That Full Throttle is mean stuff...

Joel

2024-09-25 05:20:13 UTC

Post by rbowman

Sn!pe is proper. You might not agree with him all the time (I don't)
but he's not a bad correspondent.

Joel's stumbling around drunk again.

That Full Throttle is mean stuff...

I did buy a True Blue one, today, 7-Eleven was out of the original,
but the gas station had the Blue. Meth-caffeine doesn't make me
crazy, though, I have a high tolerance to substances.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Joel

2024-09-25 05:21:13 UTC

Post by vallor
Sn!pe is proper. You might not agree with him all
the time (I don't) but he's not a bad correspondent.

Joel's stumbling around drunk again.

I actually thought about getting drunk tonight, but thought better of
it. I bought a second pack of Diet Pepsi, instead, on that outing.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

2024-09-25 15:59:08 UTC

white boy, the queerest piece of shit

that describes you to a T, you limp wristed fairy

https://postimg.cc/QBM8bWCY

Lester Thorpe

2024-09-24 18:29:25 UTC

Post by Sn!pe
A 'puter is supposed to be a tool to do a job,
the underpinnings should ideally be unnoticeable.

Incorrect, Apple fathead.

A computer is a "general purpose machine," which means
that it doesn't do anything but it embodies the potential
to do everything.

(Apple shitheads don't venture within 100 miles of Comp Sci.)

However, in order to do something, a computer must be
"programmed," and thus the "underpinnings" are of paramount
importance.

In contrast, Apple devices, and Apple users, are mere appliances.
They are set to do a single task, however convoluted that task
may appear.

But the Apple user, like YOU, is a total lackey.

He will, without question, hand over his BIG $BUCKS to Apple
and associates for the brief luxury of having a "turn key"
system.

Don't miss your subscription payment, sucker, or else you
will be dead in the fucking water.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

What fools these Appleheads be.

--
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.

Joel

2024-09-24 20:01:25 UTC

Post by Sn!pe
A 'puter is supposed to be a tool to do a job,
the underpinnings should ideally be unnoticeable.

Incorrect, Apple fathead.
A computer is a "general purpose machine," which means
that it doesn't do anything but it embodies the potential
to do everything.
(Apple shitheads don't venture within 100 miles of Comp Sci.)
However, in order to do something, a computer must be
"programmed," and thus the "underpinnings" are of paramount
importance.
In contrast, Apple devices, and Apple users, are mere appliances.
They are set to do a single task, however convoluted that task
may appear.
But the Apple user, like YOU, is a total lackey.
He will, without question, hand over his BIG $BUCKS to Apple
and associates for the brief luxury of having a "turn key"
system.
Don't miss your subscription payment, sucker, or else you
will be dead in the fucking water.
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!
What fools these Appleheads be.

The cult of Steve Jobs.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

-hh

2024-09-26 03:19:40 UTC

Post by Sn!pe
A 'puter is supposed to be a tool to do a job,
the underpinnings should ideally be unnoticeable.

Incorrect, Apple fathead.
A computer is a "general purpose machine," which means
that it doesn't do anything but it embodies the potential
to do everything.

Yet over the past 40 years, they've grown into being much more than just
a PDP-11 with a teletype terminal. They now serve many duties, one of
which is even cat pictures! /s

Post by Lester Thorpe
(Apple shitheads don't venture within 100 miles of Comp Sci.)
However, in order to do something, a computer must be
"programmed," and thus the "underpinnings" are of paramount
importance.
In contrast, Apple devices, and Apple users, are mere appliances.

Oh, so did you write your own newsreader from scratch to fabricate this
very post, "Lester"? Or did you use someone else's canned software as
your productivity tool, so you're just being a hypocrite?

Post by Lester Thorpe
They are set to do a single task, however convoluted that task
may appear.
But the Apple user, like YOU, is a total lackey.
He will, without question, hand over his BIG $BUCKS to Apple
and associates for the brief luxury of having a "turn key"
system.

Oh, look: This "BIG $BUCKS" another explicit reference to cost, in the
context of Apple products vs others. Now tagged for those who try to
deny the "Linux cheapskates" topic. :-)

Post by Lester Thorpe
Don't miss your subscription payment, sucker, or else you
will be dead in the fucking water.
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!
What fools these Appleheads be.

Hmm...perhaps this "Lester" can fill me in on just what onerous
subscription payments I'm allegedly making, where, and for what?

-hh

vallor

2024-09-26 05:41:12 UTC

Post by Sn!pe
A 'puter is supposed to be a tool to do a job,
the underpinnings should ideally be unnoticeable.

Incorrect, Apple fathead.
A computer is a "general purpose machine," which means
that it doesn't do anything but it embodies the potential
to do everything.

Yet over the past 40 years, they've grown into being much more than just
a PDP-11 with a teletype terminal. They now serve many duties, one of
which is even cat pictures! /s

Oh, so did you write your own newsreader from scratch to fabricate this
very post, "Lester"? Or did you use someone else's canned software as
your productivity tool, so you're just being a hypocrite?

Oh, look: This "BIG $BUCKS" another explicit reference to cost, in the
context of Apple products vs others. Now tagged for those who try to
deny the "Linux cheapskates" topic. :-)

? Don't be absurd.

I paid more for my Thelio Mega from System76 than we paid for the
Mac Studio -- the latter being more of a "Unix workstation" than
Feeb's cobbled-together Xeon mess.

(I was advocating getting a Mac Pro, but the Missus balked at the cost.
The Mac Studio was a good compromise, and still included the neural engine.)

--
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
OS: Linux 6.11.0 Release: Mint 21.3 Mem: 258G
"The Microsoft Motto: "We're the leaders, wait for us!""

-hh

2024-09-26 12:03:58 UTC

Post by Sn!pe
A 'puter is supposed to be a tool to do a job,
the underpinnings should ideally be unnoticeable.

Incorrect, Apple fathead.
A computer is a "general purpose machine," which means
that it doesn't do anything but it embodies the potential
to do everything.

Yet over the past 40 years, they've grown into being much more than just
a PDP-11 with a teletype terminal. They now serve many duties, one of
which is even cat pictures! /s

Oh, so did you write your own newsreader from scratch to fabricate this
very post, "Lester"? Or did you use someone else's canned software as
your productivity tool, so you're just being a hypocrite?

Oh, look: This "BIG $BUCKS" another explicit reference to cost, in the
context of Apple products vs others. Now tagged for those who try to
deny the "Linux cheapskates" topic. :-)

? Don't be absurd.

I'm not: I'm just noting where others have whined about costs on Applr
products.

Post by vallor
I paid more for my Thelio Mega from System76 than we paid for the
Mac Studio -- the latter being more of a "Unix workstation" than
Feeb's cobbled-together Xeon mess.

Sure, because workstation class PCs have shot up in price ~5 years ago:
I noticed the same thing when I was shopping to replace my Mac Pro and
was actually seriously considering migrating some stuff to Windows.

Post by vallor
(I was advocating getting a Mac Pro, but the Missus balked at the cost.
The Mac Studio was a good compromise, and still included the neural engine.)

Which with the Apple ARM chip instead of Intel, aligns with their main
product line, so it has a more promising developmental future as well as
being ~half the cost of the last Mac Pro.

-hh

chrisv

2024-09-26 21:32:56 UTC

(snipped, unread)

Kook. Snit.

Joel

2024-09-26 22:16:42 UTC

(snipped, unread)

Kook. Snit.

Unlike you, white boy.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

chrisv

2024-09-26 21:32:32 UTC

Post by -hh
Oh, look: This "BIG $BUCKS" another explicit reference to cost, in the
context of Apple products vs others. Now tagged for those who try to
deny the "Linux cheapskates" topic. :-)

? Don't be absurd.

He's a snit, *again* pretending that anyone has denied that advocates,
very reasonably, have talked about cost and value.

Recall about a month back he made an utter jackass of himself on this
same issue! He never did answer your *repeated* requests to back up
his lie about "Linux fanboys" insisting "that Linux advocacy is never,
ever, about being a cheapskate" lie.

Instead, he lied and denied, claiming a "pedantic dodge attempt" and a
"comprehension failure", when what he wrote, is *lie*, was *clear*.

He made a complete fscking asshole of himself. Failing, as usual.
Yet he's back for more humiliation! What a kook! What a snit!

--
"the Linux fanboys who insist that Linux advocacy is never, ever,
about being a cheapskate!" - lying asshole "-hh", lying shamelessly

Lawrence D'Oliveiro

2024-09-24 21:18:49 UTC

Post by vallor
Maybe that's because, Linux just works,

Yay! That's been true of Mac OS for many years ...

At the cost of limiting what you can actually get to “work”.

Apple has not been one for offering its users lots of options. And it is
gradually and slowly turning macOS into IOS, locking it down even further.

Joel

2024-09-24 21:31:35 UTC

Post by vallor
Maybe that's because, Linux just works,

Yay! That's been true of Mac OS for many years ...

At the cost of limiting what you can actually get to “work”.
Apple has not been one for offering its users lots of options. And it is
gradually and slowly turning macOS into IOS, locking it down even further.

macOS is cool because of its Unix side, the Apple-specific stuff is
laughable. Then again, I did actually prefer M$ Office for Mac, to
the Winblows version (there was a free trial for the Mac version, I
didn't actually buy it, of course). So perhaps if I were using a Mac,
which I won't, there'd be some use of its GUI, though very limited.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Lawrence D'Oliveiro

2024-09-24 23:40:24 UTC

macOS is cool because of its Unix side ...

True story: the one time I actually begged my client to let me use a
Windows machine.

I had set up these Linux servers. At that point I hadn’t got my first
laptop, the Eee 701 PC, otherwise I would have used it. I did editing of
files on the Linux boxes using Emacs, normally directly from their
consoles, but in this case it wasn’t convenient to do this. The client had
several Windows machines and Macs running OS X. I tried using SSH on one
of the Macs, and got into Emacs on the Linux box. Every time I hit CTRL-
SPACE to start a selection, it would pop up Searchlight on the Mac, I
think it was. There seemed to be no way to turn this off, and it was
driving me mad.

So eventually I gave up and used Putty (I think it was) on a Windows
machine. And got the job done.

Joel

2024-09-24 23:52:29 UTC

macOS is cool because of its Unix side ...

True story: the one time I actually begged my client to let me use a
Windows machine.
I had set up these Linux servers. At that point I hadn’t got my first
laptop, the Eee 701 PC, otherwise I would have used it. I did editing of
files on the Linux boxes using Emacs, normally directly from their
consoles, but in this case it wasn’t convenient to do this. The client had
several Windows machines and Macs running OS X. I tried using SSH on one
of the Macs, and got into Emacs on the Linux box. Every time I hit CTRL-
SPACE to start a selection, it would pop up Searchlight on the Mac, I
think it was. There seemed to be no way to turn this off, and it was
driving me mad.
So eventually I gave up and used Putty (I think it was) on a Windows
machine. And got the job done.

Well, I can't say I'm surprised. Apple is just a laughable resource,
overpriced, overrated, literally a cult of right-brained people. As
bloated as M$ Winblows is, at least it's not just some funky crapware
like macOS (save for the kernel and Darwin).
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

DFS

2024-09-25 05:27:47 UTC

Post by Joel
Apple is just a laughable resource,
overpriced, overrated, literally a cult of right-brained people. As
bloated as M$ Winblows is, at least it's not just some funky crapware
like macOS (save for the kernel and Darwin).

For the speed and functionality and software and resale value, I don't
think the base Macs and iMacs and Mac Minis are overpriced. But they
kill you on the upgrades. And some (most?) of their hardware isn't even
user-upgradeable, so you DO have to pay out the ass upfront to get
decent memory and storage.

It's not for the broke, drunk, drugged-up Linux dregs like yourself and
D'Oliveiro and Feeb.

And at least 2 former cola Linux advocates - Tattoo Vampire and
SMelzzzzz - have abandoned Linux and embraced Apple. That tells you a
lot about how good Apple stuff is.

I'm not averse to a mini system, but I prefer a med-big tower case I can
swap parts in and out of, and the amt of great software available for
Windows dwarfs that available for Mac and Linux.

Windows FTFW!
Then Mac
Then paper and pencil and rubber eraser
Then Linux

Lawrence D'Oliveiro

2024-09-25 05:35:31 UTC

Post by DFS
And at least 2 former cola Linux advocates - Tattoo Vampire and
SMelzzzzz - have abandoned Linux and embraced Apple. That tells you a
lot about how good Apple stuff is.

Quality of advocates beats quantity any time.

Ken Thompson, one of the original Bell Labs crew that created Unix, now
80 years old, was asked last year what OS he uses, and he replied
<https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/unix-pioneer-ken-thompson-announces-hes-switching-from-mac-to-linux.88451/>:

I have, for most of my life — because I was sort of born into it —
run Apple.

Now recently, meaning within the last five years, I've become more
and more depressed, and what Apple is doing to something that
should allow you to work is just atrocious. But they are taking a
lot of space and time to do it, so it's okay.

And I have come, within the last month or two, to say, even though
I've invested, you know, a zillion years in Apple — I'm throwing
it away. And I'm going to Linux. To Raspbian in particular.

Think about that: one of the original crew that created Unix does not
see Apple’s current offering as a worthy successor to his pioneering
work: he prefers Linux instead.

Joel

2024-09-25 06:27:41 UTC

Post by DFS
And at least 2 former cola Linux advocates - Tattoo Vampire and
SMelzzzzz - have abandoned Linux and embraced Apple. That tells you a
lot about how good Apple stuff is.

Quality of advocates beats quantity any time.
Ken Thompson, one of the original Bell Labs crew that created Unix, now
80 years old, was asked last year what OS he uses, and he replied
I have, for most of my life — because I was sort of born into it —
run Apple.
Now recently, meaning within the last five years, I've become more
and more depressed, and what Apple is doing to something that
should allow you to work is just atrocious. But they are taking a
lot of space and time to do it, so it's okay.
And I have come, within the last month or two, to say, even though
I've invested, you know, a zillion years in Apple — I'm throwing
it away. And I'm going to Linux. To Raspbian in particular.
Think about that: one of the original crew that created Unix does not
see Apple’s current offering as a worthy successor to his pioneering
work: he prefers Linux instead.

Yup, DFS is like the TERFs I sometimes encounter on Twitter/X, has so
much to say but is fundamentally wrong, standing on shaky ground.
macOS does OK as a Unix flavor, but it's more straightforward to just
use Unix itself, which GNU/Linux is the modern standard of. If we
were to analogize OSes to major world figures, I'd be Linux, DJT would
be Windows, and Elon Musk would be macOS. It's fair to say, I'd vote
for Trump before I'd vote for Musk.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

DFS

2024-09-25 16:16:29 UTC

Post by Joel
Yup, DFS is like the TERFs I sometimes encounter on Twitter/X,

No such thing as a "TERF". It's a silly term made up by ugly, angry,
mentally ill trannies with blue or green hair and nose rings.

Can the male whose cock you suck get pregnant? Of course not, so
referring to him as a girl is mental illness on your part.

Post by Joel
has so much to say but is fundamentally wrong, standing
on shaky ground.

What are you babbling about?

The fact that one of the Unix pioneers used Apple until very recently is
nothing but an indictment of Unix and Linux.

I can't imagine what his attraction to Raspbian (Raspberry Pi OS) could be.

Post by Joel
macOS does OK as a Unix flavor, but it's more straightforward to just
use Unix itself, which GNU/Linux is the modern standard of. If we
were to analogize OSes to major world figures, I'd be Linux, DJT would
be Windows, and Elon Musk would be macOS. It's fair to say, I'd vote
for Trump before I'd vote for Musk.

I always wonder why mentally ill people have grandiose thoughts that
they're important to the world. The transgender former cola advocate
Rex Ballard - who now goes by Debbie Lawrence - had TONS of outlandish
fantasies about being responsible for many groundbreaking IT inventions.

I forgot about something: you used to claim you were going to "replace
the Trump presidency". Of course you never gave any specifics about how
you were going to accomplish it. What happened with that delusion?

Joel

2024-09-25 16:35:11 UTC

I always wonder why mentally ill people have grandiose thoughts that
they're important to the world. The transgender former cola advocate
Rex Ballard - who now goes by Debbie Lawrence - had TONS of outlandish
fantasies about being responsible for many groundbreaking IT inventions.
I forgot about something: you used to claim you were going to "replace
the Trump presidency". Of course you never gave any specifics about how
you were going to accomplish it. What happened with that delusion?

I have been over these matters, here.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

rbowman

2024-09-25 07:55:38 UTC

Post by DFS
And at least 2 former cola Linux advocates - Tattoo Vampire and
SMelzzzzz - have abandoned Linux and embraced Apple. That tells you a
lot about how good Apple stuff is.

The Jesuits advocated getting them while they're young. Nobody ever
wanted to pay me to develop Apple software so I've never used an Apple
computer. The embedded work I did was on Intel or Zilog which naturally
led to CP/M and not Apple II.

In later years it was an aversion to walled gardens. To paraphrase Lennon,
Apple users think they're so clever, classless, and free but they're still
fucking peasants as far as I can see and love their little feudal domain.

Sn!pe

2024-09-25 16:54:15 UTC

rbowman <***@montana.com> wrote:

[...]

Post by rbowman
Apple users think they're so clever, classless, and free but they're still
fucking peasants as far as I can see and love their little feudal domain.

Sour grapes? Whatever, use of Apple kit is not compulsory. If you
choose to exclude yourself from the joy of Apple, that's your choice.

--
^Ï^. Sn!pe, PTB, FIBS, Pro Crastinator

My pet rock Gordon just is.

rbowman

2024-09-25 19:03:51 UTC

Post by Sn!pe
[...]

Post by rbowman
Apple users think they're so clever, classless, and free but they're
still fucking peasants as far as I can see and love their little feudal
domain.

Sour grapes? Whatever, use of Apple kit is not compulsory. If you
choose to exclude yourself from the joy of Apple, that's your choice.

Not sour grapes but perhaps a relic from the old days. Apple users tended
to be artsy-fartsy types. I wouldn't be surprised if they still tend
toward the left end of the scale and like their safe, curated environment.

Like I said I never had reason to use Apple products other than a Shuffle
my boss gifted one Christmas. That introduced me to iTunes which truly
sucked on Windows. My personal selection of MP3 players are those that can
be loaded directly as a storage device.

chrisv

2024-09-25 21:37:07 UTC

Post by rbowman

Post by rbowman
Apple users think they're so clever, classless, and free but they're
still fucking peasants as far as I can see and love their little feudal
domain.

Sour grapes? Whatever, use of Apple kit is not compulsory. If you
choose to exclude yourself from the joy of Apple, that's your choice.

Oh, come on. The Mac is a reasonble choice of computer. There's all
kinds of people in the world, you know.

--
"All this choice hurts my head..." - some dumb fsck

rbowman

2024-09-26 01:12:43 UTC

Post by chrisv
Oh, come on. The Mac is a reasonble choice of computer. There's all
kinds of people in the world, you know.

I'm remonded of that all too frequently. With the exception of the Mac-
mini we used for the doomed iPhone project I've only worked for one
company that had Macs. The original toaster was one of the few systems to
meet TEMPEST requirements at the time. Those were only for doumenters;
programming used PCs. The target device was the Ti 9900. That decision was
driven by it being rad hard rather than any technical superiority.

Having never used a Mac I can't criticize it. The last time I shopped for
a computer without a specific OS in mind was about 30 years ago. I looked
at the Apple price tags and then I looked at the PC price tags. I asked
the salesman what justified the difference and he came up empty. Maybe if
he had been a better salesman...

Joel

2024-09-26 01:19:51 UTC

Post by rbowman
Apple users think they're so clever, classless, and free but they're
still fucking peasants as far as I can see and love their little feudal
domain.

Sour grapes? Whatever, use of Apple kit is not compulsory. If you
choose to exclude yourself from the joy of Apple, that's your choice.

Oh, come on. The Mac is a reasonble choice of computer. There's all
kinds of people in the world, you know.

It has Unix within it, I grant that, but the Apple GUI is goofball
shit, just like the damn iPhone. I'm intrigued by the liking of it,
Samsung's phones seem *eons* better, to me.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Lawrence D'Oliveiro

2024-09-26 05:52:49 UTC

It has Unix within it, I grant that ...

No, it has the legal right to use the “Unix” trademark, which is not quite
what normal people mean when they say “It’s a Unix system, I know this!”.

... but the Apple GUI is goofball shit ...

Another relic of the 1990s idea that the GUI should be tied inextricably
into the OS kernel. Proper *nixes never fell into that trap.

Even BeOS fell for that, which is why it’s just a museum piece now.

Joel

2024-09-26 16:37:56 UTC

It has Unix within it, I grant that ...

No, it has the legal right to use the “Unix” trademark, which is not quite
what normal people mean when they say “It’s a Unix system, I know this!”.

That's not really true, you can do anything with it, but yeah I'd
*rather* just use a Linux distro.

... but the Apple GUI is goofball shit ...

Another relic of the 1990s idea that the GUI should be tied inextricably
into the OS kernel. Proper *nixes never fell into that trap.
Even BeOS fell for that, which is why it’s just a museum piece now.

It's the result of Apple's lackluster developing skills. That's why
they couldn't make a real competitor to Windows without Unix.
Microsoft is the only example of a modern, proprietary system.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Lawrence D'Oliveiro

2024-09-26 00:32:11 UTC

If you choose to exclude yourself from the joy of Apple ...

“The joy of Apple” ... kind of like “the eternal sunshine of the spotless
mind” ...

Joel

2024-09-26 01:07:21 UTC

If you choose to exclude yourself from the joy of Apple ...

“The joy of Apple” ... kind of like “the eternal sunshine of the spotless
mind” ...

Apple's products are not as cool as running Linux on ARM. I'm already
using a distro that supports this technology. Just would need to
download the non-IntelAMDx86 installer image. I covet this even
though I already have a very functional and ideal Intel desktop.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

DFS

2024-09-25 15:54:52 UTC

Post by DFS
And at least 2 former cola Linux advocates - Tattoo Vampire and
SMelzzzzz - have abandoned Linux and embraced Apple. That tells you a
lot about how good Apple stuff is.

Quality of advocates beats quantity any time.
Ken Thompson, one of the original Bell Labs crew that created Unix, now
80 years old, was asked last year what OS he uses, and he replied
I have, for most of my life — because I was sort of born into it —
run Apple.
Now recently, meaning within the last five years, I've become more
and more depressed, and what Apple is doing to something that
should allow you to work is just atrocious. But they are taking a
lot of space and time to do it, so it's okay.
And I have come, within the last month or two, to say, even though
I've invested, you know, a zillion years in Apple — I'm throwing
it away. And I'm going to Linux. To Raspbian in particular.
Think about that: one of the original crew that created Unix does not
see Apple’s current offering as a worthy successor to his pioneering
work: he prefers Linux instead.

What you should think about is the fact that one of the early Unix
pioneers didn't primarily run Unix or Linux for most of his life.

"Sort of born into" Apple is bs. Even if he started with Apple from the
beginning - mid-to-late 70s - he was already 30-35 years old. I wish he
was more specific on what bothers him about Apple.

Lawrence D'Oliveiro

2024-09-26 00:35:35 UTC

Post by DFS
What you should think about is the fact that one of the early Unix
pioneers didn't primarily run Unix or Linux for most of his life.

Of course he did. What else would he want to use? There were Unix
workstations available all through the decades until Windows NT killed
them off.

Post by DFS
"Sort of born into" Apple is bs. Even if he started with Apple from the
beginning - mid-to-late 70s - he was already 30-35 years old. I wish he
was more specific on what bothers him about Apple.

Not obvious to you? It’s obvious to me, and I was using Apple Macs from
just about the beginning of that product line, until the switch to OS X.

Maybe you need to have the same experience to understand it.

DFS

2024-09-26 02:51:46 UTC

Post by DFS
What you should think about is the fact that one of the early Unix
pioneers didn't primarily run Unix or Linux for most of his life.

Of course he did. What else would he want to use? There were Unix
workstations available all through the decades until Windows NT killed
them off.

Not obvious to you? It’s obvious to me, and I was using Apple Macs from
just about the beginning of that product line, until the switch to OS X.
Maybe you need to have the same experience to understand it.

Ken Thompson makes an extremely vague, meaningless claim about Apple,
then you lie that "it's obvious to me" when he didn't say what the
problem was?

"should allow you to work" implies you can no longer work with an Apple
computer running macOS. Absurd.

-hh

2024-09-26 03:34:41 UTC

Post by DFS
What you should think about is the fact that one of the early Unix
pioneers didn't primarily run Unix or Linux for most of his life.

Of course he did. What else would he want to use? There were Unix
workstations available all through the decades until Windows NT killed
them off.

Not obvious to you? It’s obvious to me, and I was using Apple Macs from
just about the beginning of that product line, until the switch to OS X.
Maybe you need to have the same experience to understand it.

Ken Thompson makes an extremely vague, meaningless claim about Apple,
then you lie that "it's obvious to me" when he didn't say what the
problem was?
"should allow you to work" implies you can no longer work with an Apple
computer running macOS. Absurd.

I've heard a beef from software developers in that Apple makes it "hard"
to write compliant software to the Apple UI and coding standards.

This is a fairly legitimate beef from the perspective of a lab rat
banging out something for just themselves to use on a quick project...

...but that's not the intent of those standards: they're to make sure
that software gets written consistent to the overall UI presentation so
that people other than the software's author can grok it.

Let's face it: programmers are often sloppy and/or lazy, and work
projects rarely allow a leisurely pace where all of the documentation
gets written out in full, so some degree of handcuffs are deserved.
Plus perhaps this is a place where AI will become a useful tool in
software development, such as to do the documentation that too often
gets skipped. BTDT (guilty of it myself).

-hh

Lawrence D'Oliveiro

2024-09-26 05:50:50 UTC

Post by -hh
I've heard a beef from software developers in that Apple makes it "hard"
to write compliant software to the Apple UI and coding standards.

Particularly when they give themselves an exemption from those same
standards.

Stéphane CARPENTIER

2024-09-28 09:50:16 UTC

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Think about that: one of the original crew that created Unix does not
see Apple’s current offering as a worthy successor to his pioneering
work: he prefers Linux instead.

What you should think about is the fact that one of the early Unix
pioneers didn't primarily run Unix or Linux for most of his life.

In fact, Mac OS is a Unix system derived from BSD.

--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

Joel

2024-09-25 06:16:36 UTC

For the speed and functionality and software and resale value, I don't
think the base Macs and iMacs and Mac Minis are overpriced. But they
kill you on the upgrades. And some (most?) of their hardware isn't even
user-upgradeable, so you DO have to pay out the ass upfront to get
decent memory and storage.
It's not for the broke, drunk, drugged-up Linux dregs like yourself and
D'Oliveiro and Feeb.
And at least 2 former cola Linux advocates - Tattoo Vampire and
SMelzzzzz - have abandoned Linux and embraced Apple. That tells you a
lot about how good Apple stuff is.
I'm not averse to a mini system, but I prefer a med-big tower case I can
swap parts in and out of, and the amt of great software available for
Windows dwarfs that available for Mac and Linux.
Windows FTFW!
Then Mac
Then paper and pencil and rubber eraser
Then Linux

And yet I'm accomplishing everything with openSUSE. It's almost like
commercial OSes' advantages are an illusion, but no, I get it, some
people aren't like me, they have to have M$ or Apple hold their hands.
Well, I'm a computer nerd, openSUSE to me is comfortable, they can
keep their Copilot bullshit.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Lawrence D'Oliveiro

2024-09-25 06:49:22 UTC

Post by Joel
And yet I'm accomplishing everything with openSUSE. It's almost like
commercial OSes' advantages are an illusion ...

But openSUSE *is* commercial.

Joel

2024-09-25 06:58:17 UTC

Post by Joel
And yet I'm accomplishing everything with openSUSE. It's almost like
commercial OSes' advantages are an illusion ...

But openSUSE *is* commercial.

Vaguely, perhaps, but it didn't cost money. You're just obsessing
over the word.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Lawrence D'Oliveiro

2024-09-25 08:44:37 UTC

Post by Joel
And yet I'm accomplishing everything with openSUSE. It's almost like
commercial OSes' advantages are an illusion ...

But openSUSE *is* commercial.

Vaguely, perhaps, but it didn't cost money. You're just obsessing over
the word.

Maybe Open Source is a hobby to you, but it’s how I make my living.

Joel

2024-09-25 10:49:37 UTC

Post by Joel
And yet I'm accomplishing everything with openSUSE. It's almost like
commercial OSes' advantages are an illusion ...

But openSUSE *is* commercial.

Vaguely, perhaps, but it didn't cost money. You're just obsessing over
the word.

Maybe Open Source is a hobby to you, but it’s how I make my living.

Not a hobby, it's essential to using my computer effectively. M$ is
just a lost cause.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

DFS

2024-09-25 15:37:11 UTC

Post by Joel
And yet I'm accomplishing everything with openSUSE. It's almost like
commercial OSes' advantages are an illusion ...

But openSUSE *is* commercial.

Vaguely, perhaps, but it didn't cost money. You're just obsessing over
the word.

Maybe Open Source is a hobby to you, but it’s how I make my living.

Another vague claim.

-hh

2024-09-26 03:27:17 UTC

Probably need to also include chrisv here too, since he predictably
protests at length whenever I comment about Linux advocates complaining
about costs (especially of Apple).

Post by DFS
And at least 2 former cola Linux advocates - Tattoo Vampire and
SMelzzzzz - have abandoned Linux and embraced Apple. That tells you a
lot about how good Apple stuff is.
I'm not averse to a mini system, but I prefer a med-big tower case I can
swap parts in and out of, and the amt of great software available for
Windows dwarfs that available for Mac and Linux.

Small form factor has been Apple's design direction now for over a
decade. Mobile makes sense, particularly since laptops have become good
enough to replace a generic office productivity application desktop.

But it does crimp the home DIYer, particularly those looking/using more
oomph in their systems who are disinclined from paying the "Apple Tax"
for higher-than-base hardware. Of course, as one grows older and things
aren't as lean, it becomes less painful in reality (vs perception) to
just fork over the extra bucks.

Post by DFS
Windows FTFW!
Then Mac
Then paper and pencil and rubber eraser
Then Linux

For the cheapskates, Staples.com office supply has a 24 pack box of
"True Red" brand pencils, pre-sharpened, for just $6:

<https://www.staples.com/tru-red-pre-sharpened-wooden-pencil-2-2mm-2-medium-lead-24-pack-tr58558/product_24424022>

-hh

Joel

2024-09-26 04:08:45 UTC

Probably need to also include chrisv here too, since he predictably
protests at length whenever I comment about Linux advocates complaining
about costs (especially of Apple).

Why shouldn't Apple overcharge, they have to support this market, M$
specializes in making things easy, so that the learning curve can hang
with the market for software for it. But to think of using a Mac
without heavily accessing Darwin, and probably VMing Windows 11 for
ARM, is amusing.

The mini is a fine thing to buy, IMO, if you want this crapware from
Apple. But they've developed ARM, were the leader in it. Dell offers
it too so Apple is back to being highly obscure, but I am,
philosophically, enthusiastic about ARM.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

-hh

2024-09-26 18:19:54 UTC

Probably need to also include chrisv here too, since he predictably
protests at length whenever I comment about Linux advocates complaining
about costs (especially of Apple).

Why shouldn't Apple overcharge, they have to support this market, M$
specializes in making things easy, so that the learning curve can hang
with the market for software for it.

AFAIC, Microsoft's success wasn't necessarily in making things easy, but
in getting itself adopted by business by catering to them. Pretty much
every white collar worker in a corporation has a Windows PC on their
desk, with an MS-Office license, etc: that's a lot of seats.

Apple focused on ease-of-use and neglected corporate IT Admins. They
also chose to not cater to the bottom end price-focus of markets, which
traded away marketshare by not competing on price. That's how they also
lost the schools too to Chrome. Where that leaves them is with the home
market, and the more affluent portion thereof...at least until the
advent of the iPhone, which killed off RIM's Blackberry in Corporations.

Today, Apple's MacOS is reportedly ~15% of the total market. If we
ignore schools and assume a 50/50 Corporate/Home split for desktops,
then Apple probably has a third of the home market...and if the ratio of
Corporate:Home is 67/33%, then the MacOS is probably in ~half of homes.

Post by Joel
But to think of using a Mac without heavily accessing Darwin, and
probably VMing Windows 11 for ARM, is amusing.

I don't have any qualms with MacOS; you'll need to articulate what your
beef with it happens to be. For Windows, ARM Win11 in a VM is what I'm
presently using when I happen to need Windows and it does what I need it
to do; its just another tool in the toolbox.

The mini is a fine thing to buy, IMO, if you want this crapware from
Apple.

The mainstream marketshare are laptops, so the mini, along with the iMac
and Studio are functionally niche products today. Apple's used a lot of
mobile technology & approach in these desktops, which is good from a
lower power consumption standpoint and desktop real estate claim, but it
then doesn't have the big empty box to enable DIY'ers to tinker, which
that tiny market segment loves to hate about their products. Myself
included...but I got over it.

Post by Joel
But they've developed ARM, were the leader in it. Dell offers
it too so Apple is back to being highly obscure, but I am,
philosophically, enthusiastic about ARM.

It is nice to have it cranking away with zero ambient noise. Sure beats
having the "747" noise of fans trying to keep x86 CPUs cool.

-hh

Lawrence D'Oliveiro

2024-09-26 05:56:19 UTC

Post by -hh
Small form factor has been Apple's design direction now for over a
decade.
But it does crimp the home DIYer ...

The Raspberry Pi comes in a smaller form factor than any Mac, yet it has
been spectacularly successful among home DIYers, makers and other such
tinkerers. “Small” does not mean “lacking in versatility”.

It’s not the smallness of the form factor: it’s the fact that Apple’s
full-on integrated design leaves no room for upgradeability any more. All
their Mac machines, even the desktops, are just glorified laptops now.
They have abandoned the workstation market (cf the old Mac Pro), just like
they abandoned the server market long ago.

vallor

2024-09-26 06:30:59 UTC

On Thu, 26 Sep 2024 05:56:19 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro

Post by -hh
Small form factor has been Apple's design direction now for over a
decade.
But it does crimp the home DIYer ...

The Raspberry Pi comes in a smaller form factor than any Mac, yet it has
been spectacularly successful among home DIYers, makers and other such
tinkerers. “Small” does not mean “lacking in versatility”.
It’s not the smallness of the form factor: it’s the fact that Apple’s
full-on integrated design leaves no room for upgradeability any more. All
their Mac machines, even the desktops, are just glorified laptops now.
They have abandoned the workstation market (cf the old Mac Pro), just like
they abandoned the server market long ago.

The Mac Pro is still sold, as well as the Mac Studio.

--
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
OS: Linux 6.11.0 Release: Mint 21.3 Mem: 258G
"Borg? Where? I don't se*(#$#..NO CARRIER"

Lawrence D'Oliveiro

2024-09-26 07:26:59 UTC

Post by vallor
The Mac Pro is still sold, as well as the Mac Studio.

Apple’s ARM-based machines don’t have the same sort of expandibility as
their previous range. They don’t count as “workstations” any more, and
buyers looking for such things are going elsewhere.

-hh

2024-09-26 19:35:17 UTC

Post by -hh
Small form factor has been Apple's design direction now for over a
decade.
But it does crimp the home DIYer ...

Well 'expandable' is easier when the product didn't ship with a case. /s

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
It’s not the smallness of the form factor: it’s the fact that Apple’s
full-on integrated design leaves no room for upgradeability any more. All
their Mac machines, even the desktops, are just glorified laptops now.
They have abandoned the workstation market (cf the old Mac Pro), just like
they abandoned the server market long ago.

Their current paradigm has been to upgrade with external devices,
attached via the "Thunderbolt" interface. For example, in addition to
external SSD or hard drives, etc, there's external PCIe expansion boxes
which are typically for GPU cards or other special interfaces (music).

And sure, having to use an external isn't as cheap as having a
half-empty PC case to drop bare components into, but its still expansion.

What DFS alluded to is that not everything is upgradable by replacement,
with RAM and boot SSDs are two such examples. But in counterpoint,
there's also system performance benefits from what Apple has done, so it
represents a trade-off. For example, a quick benchmark in Blackmagic
design of my as-is "used" condition first generation out-of-the-box Mac
Studio comes in at a mere 7000+ MB/sec Write / 5000+ MB/sec Read.

-hh

Chris Ahlstrom

2024-09-26 11:03:23 UTC

<snip>
Probably need to also include chrisv here too, since he predictably
protests at length whenever I comment about Linux advocates complaining
about costs (especially of Apple).

Truthfully, I would like to also have a Mac, but for cost. Much better
to buy an on-sale Windows computer and replace Windows with Linux

Post by DFS
And at least 2 former cola Linux advocates - Tattoo Vampire and
SMelzzzzz - have abandoned Linux and embraced Apple. That tells you a
lot about how good Apple stuff is.

Or maybe it tells us about them.

I do miss Tattoo; He and I were on MeWe for awhile but I stopped using it.

Blue Oyster Cult "Tattoo Vampire"

--
When Yahweh your gods has settled you in the land you're about to occupy, and
driven out many infidels before you...you're to cut them down and exterminate
them. You're to make no compromise with them or show them any mercy.
[Deut. 7:1 (KJV)]

chrisv

2024-09-26 12:10:33 UTC

Post by -hh
Probably need to also include chrisv here too, since he predictably
protests at length whenever I comment about Linux advocates complaining
about costs (especially of Apple).

It's your snittish twists and lies that I object to, -highhorse.

Did cola advocates really have an "irrational hatred" of Photoshop,
-highhorse?

--
"See, now there's a photo that isn't crap. Well done!' - "-hh",
admiring a photo of chrisv's rear-end

-hh

2024-09-26 19:59:39 UTC

Post by -hh
Probably need to also include chrisv here too, since he predictably
protests at length whenever I comment about Linux advocates complaining
about costs (especially of Apple).

It's your snittish twists and lies that I object to, -highhorse.
Did cola advocates really have an "irrational hatred" of Photoshop,
-highhorse?

Well, there is one COLA fanboy who's still ranting about the claimed
£600 cost of Photoshop from a comment that Homer made 14(!) years ago..

-hh

chrisv

2024-09-26 21:39:35 UTC

(snipped, unread)

Poor -highhorse. You'll never grow up, become a man, and admit to your
lies, will you?

--
"Well, at least chrisv is pretending better:" - lying asshole "-hh",
lying shamelessly

RonB

2024-09-27 04:30:56 UTC

(snipped, unread)

Poor -highhorse. You'll never grow up, become a man, and admit to your
lies, will you?

Do you see any of Woke EVER admit they made a mistake? It's not in their DNA
because everything they believe is part of their Woke Cult and they're not
going to deny their Woke faith.

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

RonB

2024-09-27 04:29:16 UTC

Post by -hh
Probably need to also include chrisv here too, since he predictably
protests at length whenever I comment about Linux advocates complaining
about costs (especially of Apple).

It's your snittish twists and lies that I object to, -highhorse.
Did cola advocates really have an "irrational hatred" of Photoshop,
-highhorse?

I have a rational hatred of renting expensive software forever that I
absolutely don't need for anything.

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

-hh

2024-09-27 15:23:52 UTC

Post by RonB

Post by -hh
Probably need to also include chrisv here too, since he predictably
protests at length whenever I comment about Linux advocates complaining
about costs (especially of Apple).

It's your snittish twists and lies that I object to, -highhorse.
Did cola advocates really have an "irrational hatred" of Photoshop,
-highhorse?

I have a rational hatred of renting expensive software forever that I
absolutely don't need for anything.

Fun fact:

14 years ago, Adobe didn't sell only subscription based software.

As such, while I'm generally in the same camp as RonB of not wanting to
pay monthly subscription fee, it doesn't apply to this ancient debate
that chrisv (and Homer) lost over a decade ago.

-hh

vallor

2024-09-25 02:55:41 UTC

Post by vallor
Seems like there isn't much Linux advocacy going on.[*]
Maybe that's because, Linux just works,

Yay! That's been true of Mac OS for many years;
congrats to the Linux world for finally catching on.

We have a Mac Studio downstairs -- long story, but the
Missus prefers her Mac. It's slower than my workstation though...
and I just bought her an ITX-based machine to run Linux for
various uses.

I put Cairo-dock on it, so she has the "Mac experience".

Post by vallor
so much so that it's even a bit boring.

A 'puter is supposed to be a tool to do a job,
the underpinnings should ideally be unnoticeable.

Agreed, but someone has to maintain those underpinnings.

Every OS needs a guru from time to time -- that might be
you for your Mac, or someone else for grandma's Win11 machine.

Post by Sn!pe
IMO 'puter hobbyists are mostly deviants.

Speak for yourself, deviant. ;)

--
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
OS: Linux 6.11.0 Release: Mint 21.3 Mem: 258G
"Oxymoron: Restless Sleep."

Lawrence D'Oliveiro

2024-09-25 05:39:21 UTC

Post by Sn!pe
A 'puter is supposed to be a tool to do a job,
the underpinnings should ideally be unnoticeable.

Agreed, but someone has to maintain those underpinnings.

Why Open Source? Most computer users have no interest in the source code.

But then again, why do cars have bonnets that can be opened? Most people
have no interest at looking at the engines or other inner workings of
their cars. So why make it easy to do so?

The reason is the same in both cases: so that you don’t have to go back to
the original vendor if/when you have trouble: you can go to your choice of
expert to help you with repair/maintenance when you need it. That expert
does not need special permission from the original vendor to do their
work: once the original product vendor sells you the product, they no
longer have control of it: you do.

Sn!pe

2024-09-25 16:59:33 UTC

Post by Sn!pe
IMO 'puter hobbyists are mostly deviants.

Speak for yourself, deviant. ;)

Bow before me, underling. ≈:o)

--
^Ï^. Sn!pe, PTB, FIBS, Pro Crastinator

My pet rock Gordon just is.

Stéphane CARPENTIER

2024-09-28 09:45:54 UTC

Post by vallor
Seems like there isn't much Linux advocacy going on.[*]
Maybe that's because, Linux just works,

Yay! That's been true of Mac OS for many years;
congrats to the Linux world for finally catching on.

Post by vallor
so much so that it's even a bit boring.

A 'puter is supposed to be a tool to do a job,
the underpinnings should ideally be unnoticeable.
IMO 'puter hobbyists are mostly deviants.

As you promote Mac OS, you are deviant, too, so everything's fine.

--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

Lester Thorpe

2024-09-24 18:46:33 UTC

Post by vallor
Maybe that's because, Linux just works, so much so that
it's even a bit boring.

Nope. Linux (more properly GNU/Linux) does not "just work."

Someone, or some collective, has to MAKE it work.

GNU/Linux can be made to serve a wide variety of purposes
and functions.

GNU/Linux can be made to serve idiots via Ubuntu, Mint, et.al.

GNU/Linux can be made to serve masters via Gentoo, LFS, Exherbo,
et.al.

GNU/Linux can be made to serve [put it here] via [put it here].

GNU/Linux is NOT boring -- except to idiots like YOU.

--
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.

candycanearter07

2024-09-24 19:30:05 UTC

Post by vallor
Seems like there isn't much Linux advocacy going on.[*]
Maybe that's because, Linux just works, so much so that
it's even a bit boring.
Of course, there are those who look for trouble. I rather
wouldn't say much about them...
[*] Except Feeb, who is just there to make Linux advocates
look bad.

I would post more here but skimming all the political stuff is
exhausting.

--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

vallor

2024-09-25 03:35:35 UTC

On Tue, 24 Sep 2024 19:30:05 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07

Post by candycanearter07

I would post more here but skimming all the political stuff is
exhausting.

I've set up my scorefile to ignore posts crossposted to
various groups. Can you do that in slrn?

--
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
OS: Linux 6.11.0 Release: Mint 21.3 Mem: 258G
"A statement of fact cannot be insolent. - Orac"

Chris Ahlstrom

2024-09-25 11:41:34 UTC

I've set up my scorefile to ignore posts crossposted to various groups.
Can you do that in slrn?

Yes. I've never tried it but I think you can use a Pan Score file with
slrn.

You can score based on anything in the header, perhaps using regex as well.

https://www.slrn.org/docs/slrn-FAQ-4.html

4.15 How do I score all cross-posts?

Like the previous answer you have two choices: to use the ``Xref'' line
(preferred) or the ``Newsgroups'' line. The first choice uses the fact that
a cross-posted article will have two colons in the ``Xref'' header field.
So, use a score of the form:

Score: -9999
Xref: :.*:

If you do not have the option of using the ``Xref'' line, use:

Score: -9999
Newsgroups: ,

However, you may want to tolerate cross-posts if a ``Followup-To'' header
line is set. The following rule scores articles that are cross-posted into
many groups (e.g. more than 2) and have no ``Followup-To'' line (note that
this rule is ``expensive'', as usually neither ``Newsgroups'' nor
``Followup-To'' are included in the NOV data).

Score: -9999
Newsgroups: ,.*,
~Followup-To: .

--
It is like saying that for the cause of peace, God and the Devil will
have a high-level meeting.
-- Rev. Carl McIntire, on Nixon's China trip

candycanearter07

2024-09-25 14:20:04 UTC