Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again

Post by RonB
I guess checking the battery capacity is the last thing my Latitude 5300
will ever do on Windows 11. When I exited it did a small update. When I
rebooted after the update it wanted to do a disk check (and I stupidly let
it do so). After doing that and rebooting it ran into a BSOD ("we ran into a
problem"). It then wants to run diagnostics, attempts a repair and... we
start the whole loop all over again. (I tried this about six times and
finally told myself, "well, enough of that bullshit.")
Adios WinCrap 11. the space can better be used by Linux Mint anyhow (which
still boots fine). Another computer that will be completely freed from
Windows.

That's an eighth-gen Intel CPU, pretty minimal for bloated Win11, but
then this may have just been M$ crapware crapping out, rather than a
hardware insufficiency.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

CrudeSausage

2025-02-08 14:11:37 UTC

I would be lying if I said that it never happened to me before.

--
CrudeSausage
Gab: @CrudeSausage
Telegram: @CrudeSausage
Unapologetic paleoconservative

RonB

2025-02-08 15:40:37 UTC

I would be lying if I said that it never happened to me before.

I was beginning to think Windows 11 was fairly solid. This surprised me. I
don't why, but I had a bad feeling when I let it do a "disk check." I was
more worried that Windows would trash my Linux grub setup for booting,
though, I didn't think it would trash itself.

I went ahead and deleted the Windows partitions with GParted and installed
Debian 12 in its place. I'm experimenting with creating .deb packages for
Trelby (which I found isn't that hard to do) so it'll be nice to have a
Debian install for testing purposes. (Linux Mint is more like Ubuntu and
Debian and LM are actually different enough that I have to test both.)

Speaking of Ubuntu, I've come to despise it and it's damn Snaps. I found out
that the Snap version of Firefox refuses to read .html files if they're not
in the home (and/or, I suppose, the Snap) directory. The documentation for
Trelby can't be read by it (installed in its normal directory). When I
uninstall the Snap version of Firefox, it won't allow me to install the .deb
version. They're definitely turning into control freaks at Ubuntu (kind of
like Windows and Mac OS).

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

CrudeSausage

2025-02-08 16:05:35 UTC

I would be lying if I said that it never happened to me before.

I was beginning to think Windows 11 was fairly solid. This surprised me. I
don't why, but I had a bad feeling when I let it do a "disk check." I was
more worried that Windows would trash my Linux grub setup for booting,
though, I didn't think it would trash itself.
I went ahead and deleted the Windows partitions with GParted and installed
Debian 12 in its place. I'm experimenting with creating .deb packages for
Trelby (which I found isn't that hard to do) so it'll be nice to have a
Debian install for testing purposes. (Linux Mint is more like Ubuntu and
Debian and LM are actually different enough that I have to test both.)
Speaking of Ubuntu, I've come to despise it and it's damn Snaps. I found out
that the Snap version of Firefox refuses to read .html files if they're not
in the home (and/or, I suppose, the Snap) directory. The documentation for
Trelby can't be read by it (installed in its normal directory). When I
uninstall the Snap version of Firefox, it won't allow me to install the .deb
version. They're definitely turning into control freaks at Ubuntu (kind of
like Windows and Mac OS).

I'm not a fan of Flatpak or Snap anymore and see them both as something
to use if you don't have a choice. I like the theory behind both, but
they often ignore your theme, take longer to load or have trouble
integrating with the rest of the system. If I absolutely had to go for
one or the other though, I would choose Flatpak even though Snap is
theoretically superior.

--
CrudeSausage
Gab: @CrudeSausage
Telegram: @CrudeSausage
Unapologetic paleoconservative

RonB

2025-02-08 17:07:37 UTC

I would be lying if I said that it never happened to me before.

I was beginning to think Windows 11 was fairly solid. This surprised me. I
don't why, but I had a bad feeling when I let it do a "disk check." I was
more worried that Windows would trash my Linux grub setup for booting,
though, I didn't think it would trash itself.
I went ahead and deleted the Windows partitions with GParted and installed
Debian 12 in its place. I'm experimenting with creating .deb packages for
Trelby (which I found isn't that hard to do) so it'll be nice to have a
Debian install for testing purposes. (Linux Mint is more like Ubuntu and
Debian and LM are actually different enough that I have to test both.)
Speaking of Ubuntu, I've come to despise it and it's damn Snaps. I found out
that the Snap version of Firefox refuses to read .html files if they're not
in the home (and/or, I suppose, the Snap) directory. The documentation for
Trelby can't be read by it (installed in its normal directory). When I
uninstall the Snap version of Firefox, it won't allow me to install the .deb
version. They're definitely turning into control freaks at Ubuntu (kind of
like Windows and Mac OS).

I don't like Snaps at all. I do tolerate FlatPaks (and use a few of them)
but if I knew how to make AppImages that's what I would prefer for Trelby.

And it's not Snaps I really dislike, it's Ubuntu forcing them on you.
There's other things I don't like about Ubuntu. It would definitely not be
in my top 20 list.

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

CrudeSausage

2025-02-09 13:22:19 UTC

I would be lying if I said that it never happened to me before.

I was beginning to think Windows 11 was fairly solid. This surprised me. I
don't why, but I had a bad feeling when I let it do a "disk check." I was
more worried that Windows would trash my Linux grub setup for booting,
though, I didn't think it would trash itself.
I went ahead and deleted the Windows partitions with GParted and installed
Debian 12 in its place. I'm experimenting with creating .deb packages for
Trelby (which I found isn't that hard to do) so it'll be nice to have a
Debian install for testing purposes. (Linux Mint is more like Ubuntu and
Debian and LM are actually different enough that I have to test both.)
Speaking of Ubuntu, I've come to despise it and it's damn Snaps. I found out
that the Snap version of Firefox refuses to read .html files if they're not
in the home (and/or, I suppose, the Snap) directory. The documentation for
Trelby can't be read by it (installed in its normal directory). When I
uninstall the Snap version of Firefox, it won't allow me to install the .deb
version. They're definitely turning into control freaks at Ubuntu (kind of
like Windows and Mac OS).

I don't like Snaps at all. I do tolerate FlatPaks (and use a few of them)
but if I knew how to make AppImages that's what I would prefer for Trelby.
And it's not Snaps I really dislike, it's Ubuntu forcing them on you.
There's other things I don't like about Ubuntu. It would definitely not be
in my top 20 list.

I have to admit that during the short period of time during which I used
Ubuntu recently, I was surprised that just about everything I was
running was a Snap. For security reasons, it made sense (the browser,
the e-mail client), but certain other things would have run just as well
if they were simple .deb files. They want to make Snap a standard, that
much is clear, and they're taking advantage of the distribution's
popularity to do so.

--
CrudeSausage
Gab: @CrudeSausage
Telegram: @CrudeSausage
Unapologetic paleoconservative

rbowman

2025-02-09 20:03:37 UTC

Post by CrudeSausage
I have to admit that during the short period of time during which I used
Ubuntu recently, I was surprised that just about everything I was
running was a Snap. For security reasons, it made sense (the browser,
the e-mail client), but certain other things would have run just as well
if they were simple .deb files. They want to make Snap a standard, that
much is clear, and they're taking advantage of the distribution's
popularity to do so.

Flatpak, at least on Fedora, isn't quite as aggressive. Some of the snap
stuff is surprising.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/02/new-wikitok-web-app-allows-
infinite-tiktok-style-scroll-of-wikipedia/

I cloned the GitHub project. It uses bun which is a snap rather than
a .deb. node.js is also a snap.

otoh, on Ubuntu the Arduino IDE v2 is an AppImage which doesn't integrate
that well. On Fedora it's a flatpak and shows up on the menu as expected.

So far I don't have a strong feeling one way or the other. I haven't seen
the performance problems some have reported.

RonB

2025-02-10 07:54:32 UTC

I would be lying if I said that it never happened to me before.

I was beginning to think Windows 11 was fairly solid. This surprised me. I
don't why, but I had a bad feeling when I let it do a "disk check." I was
more worried that Windows would trash my Linux grub setup for booting,
though, I didn't think it would trash itself.
I went ahead and deleted the Windows partitions with GParted and installed
Debian 12 in its place. I'm experimenting with creating .deb packages for
Trelby (which I found isn't that hard to do) so it'll be nice to have a
Debian install for testing purposes. (Linux Mint is more like Ubuntu and
Debian and LM are actually different enough that I have to test both.)
Speaking of Ubuntu, I've come to despise it and it's damn Snaps. I found out
that the Snap version of Firefox refuses to read .html files if they're not
in the home (and/or, I suppose, the Snap) directory. The documentation for
Trelby can't be read by it (installed in its normal directory). When I
uninstall the Snap version of Firefox, it won't allow me to install the .deb
version. They're definitely turning into control freaks at Ubuntu (kind of
like Windows and Mac OS).

I don't like Snaps at all. I do tolerate FlatPaks (and use a few of them)
but if I knew how to make AppImages that's what I would prefer for Trelby.
And it's not Snaps I really dislike, it's Ubuntu forcing them on you.
There's other things I don't like about Ubuntu. It would definitely not be
in my top 20 list.

I think you're right. I think they're completely sold on the "container"
idea — everything in its own "silo" (or whatever they call it, "sandbox"
maybe). To me that means you lose the advatage of Linux, where small
applications are combined to create bigger applications, in one nice "flow."
This may be a good idea for servers, but I don't think there are other ways
to secure (harden) servers. I don't like it on a personal computer at all.

I think they call these "container" distributions. Fedora has one, CoreOS,
but they keep it separate from their standard install. That's what I wish
Ubuntu would do as, apparently, they have something called Ubuntu Core. Save
the damn Snaps for that. I guess the big one (so far) is Alpine. I don't
know if these use special containers, or Snaps or Flatpaks, or what.

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

CrudeSausage

2025-02-10 15:27:56 UTC

I would be lying if I said that it never happened to me before.

I was beginning to think Windows 11 was fairly solid. This surprised me. I
don't why, but I had a bad feeling when I let it do a "disk check." I was
more worried that Windows would trash my Linux grub setup for booting,
though, I didn't think it would trash itself.
I went ahead and deleted the Windows partitions with GParted and installed
Debian 12 in its place. I'm experimenting with creating .deb packages for
Trelby (which I found isn't that hard to do) so it'll be nice to have a
Debian install for testing purposes. (Linux Mint is more like Ubuntu and
Debian and LM are actually different enough that I have to test both.)
Speaking of Ubuntu, I've come to despise it and it's damn Snaps. I found out
that the Snap version of Firefox refuses to read .html files if they're not
in the home (and/or, I suppose, the Snap) directory. The documentation for
Trelby can't be read by it (installed in its normal directory). When I
uninstall the Snap version of Firefox, it won't allow me to install the .deb
version. They're definitely turning into control freaks at Ubuntu (kind of
like Windows and Mac OS).

I don't like Snaps at all. I do tolerate FlatPaks (and use a few of them)
but if I knew how to make AppImages that's what I would prefer for Trelby.
And it's not Snaps I really dislike, it's Ubuntu forcing them on you.
There's other things I don't like about Ubuntu. It would definitely not be
in my top 20 list.

I think you're right. I think they're completely sold on the "container"
idea — everything in its own "silo" (or whatever they call it, "sandbox"
maybe). To me that means you lose the advatage of Linux, where small
applications are combined to create bigger applications, in one nice "flow."
This may be a good idea for servers, but I don't think there are other ways
to secure (harden) servers. I don't like it on a personal computer at all.
I think they call these "container" distributions. Fedora has one, CoreOS,
but they keep it separate from their standard install. That's what I wish
Ubuntu would do as, apparently, they have something called Ubuntu Core. Save
the damn Snaps for that. I guess the big one (so far) is Alpine. I don't
know if these use special containers, or Snaps or Flatpaks, or what.

I have no doubt that taking an all .deb or all .rpm approach might
result in some things breaking along the way. However, there is no doubt
that it's quite secure and much faster than the container approach. When
all the software you're getting is coming out of a repository which has
been checked thoroughly by professionals, and not anywhere on the web,
I'm not sure what the need for contained software is. Granted, Flatpak
and Snap make software which _isn't_ available to a repository available
to your choice of a distribution, and that is definitely an advantage.
Security, however, should not be the main reason for using Snap or Flatpak.

--
CrudeSausage
Gab: @CrudeSausage
Telegram: @CrudeSausage
Unapologetic paleoconservative

RonB

2025-02-11 06:23:26 UTC

I would be lying if I said that it never happened to me before.

I was beginning to think Windows 11 was fairly solid. This surprised me. I
don't why, but I had a bad feeling when I let it do a "disk check." I was
more worried that Windows would trash my Linux grub setup for booting,
though, I didn't think it would trash itself.
I went ahead and deleted the Windows partitions with GParted and installed
Debian 12 in its place. I'm experimenting with creating .deb packages for
Trelby (which I found isn't that hard to do) so it'll be nice to have a
Debian install for testing purposes. (Linux Mint is more like Ubuntu and
Debian and LM are actually different enough that I have to test both.)
Speaking of Ubuntu, I've come to despise it and it's damn Snaps. I found out
that the Snap version of Firefox refuses to read .html files if they're not
in the home (and/or, I suppose, the Snap) directory. The documentation for
Trelby can't be read by it (installed in its normal directory). When I
uninstall the Snap version of Firefox, it won't allow me to install the .deb
version. They're definitely turning into control freaks at Ubuntu (kind of
like Windows and Mac OS).

I don't like Snaps at all. I do tolerate FlatPaks (and use a few of them)
but if I knew how to make AppImages that's what I would prefer for Trelby.
And it's not Snaps I really dislike, it's Ubuntu forcing them on you.
There's other things I don't like about Ubuntu. It would definitely not be
in my top 20 list.

I think you're right. I think they're completely sold on the "container"
idea — everything in its own "silo" (or whatever they call it, "sandbox"
maybe). To me that means you lose the advatage of Linux, where small
applications are combined to create bigger applications, in one nice "flow."
This may be a good idea for servers, but I don't think there are other ways
to secure (harden) servers. I don't like it on a personal computer at all.
I think they call these "container" distributions. Fedora has one, CoreOS,
but they keep it separate from their standard install. That's what I wish
Ubuntu would do as, apparently, they have something called Ubuntu Core. Save
the damn Snaps for that. I guess the big one (so far) is Alpine. I don't
know if these use special containers, or Snaps or Flatpaks, or what.

Personally I like (well made) AppImages better than either Flatpaks or
Snaps, but I do use about five Flatpaks. I quit using Snaps when I
discovered they showed up like drive partitions when I did a _df_ to check
my drive space. I didn't like that.

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

CrudeSausage

2025-02-11 13:51:59 UTC

I would be lying if I said that it never happened to me before.

I was beginning to think Windows 11 was fairly solid. This surprised me. I
don't why, but I had a bad feeling when I let it do a "disk check." I was
more worried that Windows would trash my Linux grub setup for booting,
though, I didn't think it would trash itself.
I went ahead and deleted the Windows partitions with GParted and installed
Debian 12 in its place. I'm experimenting with creating .deb packages for
Trelby (which I found isn't that hard to do) so it'll be nice to have a
Debian install for testing purposes. (Linux Mint is more like Ubuntu and
Debian and LM are actually different enough that I have to test both.)
Speaking of Ubuntu, I've come to despise it and it's damn Snaps. I found out
that the Snap version of Firefox refuses to read .html files if they're not
in the home (and/or, I suppose, the Snap) directory. The documentation for
Trelby can't be read by it (installed in its normal directory). When I
uninstall the Snap version of Firefox, it won't allow me to install the .deb
version. They're definitely turning into control freaks at Ubuntu (kind of
like Windows and Mac OS).

I don't like Snaps at all. I do tolerate FlatPaks (and use a few of them)
but if I knew how to make AppImages that's what I would prefer for Trelby.
And it's not Snaps I really dislike, it's Ubuntu forcing them on you.
There's other things I don't like about Ubuntu. It would definitely not be
in my top 20 list.

I think you're right. I think they're completely sold on the "container"
idea — everything in its own "silo" (or whatever they call it, "sandbox"
maybe). To me that means you lose the advatage of Linux, where small
applications are combined to create bigger applications, in one nice "flow."
This may be a good idea for servers, but I don't think there are other ways
to secure (harden) servers. I don't like it on a personal computer at all.
I think they call these "container" distributions. Fedora has one, CoreOS,
but they keep it separate from their standard install. That's what I wish
Ubuntu would do as, apparently, they have something called Ubuntu Core. Save
the damn Snaps for that. I guess the big one (so far) is Alpine. I don't
know if these use special containers, or Snaps or Flatpaks, or what.

I'm not sure why they bothered making Flatpaks and Snaps when AppImages
work pretty much everywhere. I mean, how can you beat something which
requires nothing more than for you to make it executable?

--
CrudeSausage/
Gab: @CrudeSausage
Telegram: @CrudeSausage
Pfizer knowing injected us with poison

rbowman

2025-02-11 20:49:56 UTC

Post by CrudeSausage
I'm not sure why they bothered making Flatpaks and Snaps when AppImages
work pretty much everywhere. I mean, how can you beat something which
requires nothing more than for you to make it executable?

https://github.com/probonopd/go-appimage/blob/master/src/appimaged/
README.md

appimaged is handy as it will search for AppImages, extract the icons, and
have them show up on menus and taskbars.

CrudeSausage

2025-02-12 00:47:14 UTC

https://github.com/probonopd/go-appimage/blob/master/src/appimaged/
README.md
appimaged is handy as it will search for AppImages, extract the icons, and
have them show up on menus and taskbars.

Ah, that's exactly the kind of application I was looking for. I was
annoyed that the AppImage for my cloud provider didn't provide an icon.

--
CrudeSausage/
Gab: @CrudeSausage
Telegram: @CrudeSausage
Pfizer knowingly injected us with poison

rbowman

2025-02-12 03:09:02 UTC

Post by CrudeSausage
I'm not sure why they bothered making Flatpaks and Snaps when
AppImages work pretty much everywhere. I mean, how can you beat
something which requires nothing more than for you to make it
executable?

https://github.com/probonopd/go-appimage/blob/master/src/appimaged/
README.md
appimaged is handy as it will search for AppImages, extract the icons,
and have them show up on menus and taskbars.

Ah, that's exactly the kind of application I was looking for. I was
annoyed that the AppImage for my cloud provider didn't provide an icon.

Supposedly, at least on Ubuntu, you can extract the AppRun directory to
squashfs-root, copy the whole mess to /opt, find the icon in the mess,
handcraft a xxxx.desktop in /usr/share/applications pointing to the AppRun
and icon, and then reload the desktop database. It never worked for me.

appimaged found the app and now I have icons for both Arduino IDE v1 and
V2 on the taskbar. V1 is a circle and v2 is a square with rounded corners
but I can live with that.

I've only got the one AppImage but it supposedly will find all and any.

CrudeSausage

2025-02-12 14:02:38 UTC

Post by CrudeSausage
I'm not sure why they bothered making Flatpaks and Snaps when
AppImages work pretty much everywhere. I mean, how can you beat
something which requires nothing more than for you to make it
executable?

https://github.com/probonopd/go-appimage/blob/master/src/appimaged/
README.md
appimaged is handy as it will search for AppImages, extract the icons,
and have them show up on menus and taskbars.

Ah, that's exactly the kind of application I was looking for. I was
annoyed that the AppImage for my cloud provider didn't provide an icon.

It's not exactly intuitive either.

Post by rbowman
appimaged found the app and now I have icons for both Arduino IDE v1 and
V2 on the taskbar. V1 is a circle and v2 is a square with rounded corners
but I can live with that.
I've only got the one AppImage but it supposedly will find all and any.

I never bothered to look into it but I'm wondering if AppImages have a
database like flathub.org and snapcraft.io.

--
CrudeSausage/
Gab: @CrudeSausage
Telegram: @CrudeSausage
Pfizer knowingly injected us with poison

rbowman

2025-02-12 19:12:13 UTC

Post by CrudeSausage
I never bothered to look into it but I'm wondering if AppImages have a
database like flathub.org and snapcraft.io.

https://www.appimagehub.com/

The only one I have is the Arduino v2.

https://www.appimagehub.com/p/2123683

On Fedora v2 is a Flatpak but on Ubuntu the snap is v1. I don't know why
the difference. v1 is usable but v2 has matured and can do anything v1 did
and more. The more I work with Ubuntu the less I like it.

CrudeSausage

2025-02-13 00:03:46 UTC

Post by CrudeSausage
I never bothered to look into it but I'm wondering if AppImages have a
database like flathub.org and snapcraft.io.

https://www.appimagehub.com/
The only one I have is the Arduino v2.
https://www.appimagehub.com/p/2123683
On Fedora v2 is a Flatpak but on Ubuntu the snap is v1. I don't know why
the difference. v1 is usable but v2 has matured and can do anything v1 did
and more. The more I work with Ubuntu the less I like it.

I gave up on Ubuntu upon discovering that it and its derivatives freeze
randomly with no explanation as to why that might be. It's part of why I
was so willing to try Fedora and others in my latest adventure into
Linux use.

--
CrudeSausage/
Gab: @CrudeSausage
Telegram: @CrudeSausage
Pfizer knowingly injected us with poison

RonB

2025-02-13 06:44:03 UTC

Post by CrudeSausage
I never bothered to look into it but I'm wondering if AppImages have a
database like flathub.org and snapcraft.io.

https://www.appimagehub.com/
The only one I have is the Arduino v2.
https://www.appimagehub.com/p/2123683
On Fedora v2 is a Flatpak but on Ubuntu the snap is v1. I don't know why
the difference. v1 is usable but v2 has matured and can do anything v1 did
and more. The more I work with Ubuntu the less I like it.

I'm guessing that's a nVidia issue as I've never had trouble with random
freezing on Linux Mint.

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

vallor

2025-02-13 07:27:33 UTC

Post by CrudeSausage
I never bothered to look into it but I'm wondering if AppImages have a
database like flathub.org and snapcraft.io.

https://www.appimagehub.com/
The only one I have is the Arduino v2.
https://www.appimagehub.com/p/2123683
On Fedora v2 is a Flatpak but on Ubuntu the snap is v1. I don't know why
the difference. v1 is usable but v2 has matured and can do anything v1 did
and more. The more I work with Ubuntu the less I like it.

I'm guessing that's a nVidia issue as I've never had trouble with random
freezing on Linux Mint.

Has never been a problem for me on Linux Mint. (Nobara, when I tried
booting a live stick, absolutely choked.)

Currently running NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-570.86.16.run, which is the current
beta drivers. (MIT/GPL branch).

--
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
OS: Linux 6.14.0-rc2 Release: Mint 22.1 Mem: 258G
"How do you know it's summer in Seattle? Rain's warm!"

CrudeSausage

2025-02-13 13:43:59 UTC

Post by CrudeSausage
I never bothered to look into it but I'm wondering if AppImages have a
database like flathub.org and snapcraft.io.

https://www.appimagehub.com/
The only one I have is the Arduino v2.
https://www.appimagehub.com/p/2123683
On Fedora v2 is a Flatpak but on Ubuntu the snap is v1. I don't know why
the difference. v1 is usable but v2 has matured and can do anything v1 did
and more. The more I work with Ubuntu the less I like it.

I'm guessing that's a nVidia issue as I've never had trouble with random
freezing on Linux Mint.

The random freezing affects Pop!_OS too, unfortunately, since it is
based on Ubuntu 22.04. There's basically no escaping it. I know that my
GPU is not faulty, so it's especially insulting when Ubuntu and its
derivatives treat it like it is.

--
CrudeSausage/
Gab: @CrudeSausage
Telegram: @CrudeSausage
Pfizer knowingly injected us with poison

RonB

2025-02-14 07:44:55 UTC

Post by CrudeSausage
I never bothered to look into it but I'm wondering if AppImages have a
database like flathub.org and snapcraft.io.

https://www.appimagehub.com/
The only one I have is the Arduino v2.
https://www.appimagehub.com/p/2123683
On Fedora v2 is a Flatpak but on Ubuntu the snap is v1. I don't know why
the difference. v1 is usable but v2 has matured and can do anything v1 did
and more. The more I work with Ubuntu the less I like it.

I'm guessing that's a nVidia issue as I've never had trouble with random
freezing on Linux Mint.

But you're GPU is a nVidia one, right?

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

CrudeSausage

2025-02-14 14:04:16 UTC

Post by CrudeSausage
I never bothered to look into it but I'm wondering if AppImages have a
database like flathub.org and snapcraft.io.

https://www.appimagehub.com/
The only one I have is the Arduino v2.
https://www.appimagehub.com/p/2123683
On Fedora v2 is a Flatpak but on Ubuntu the snap is v1. I don't know why
the difference. v1 is usable but v2 has matured and can do anything v1 did
and more. The more I work with Ubuntu the less I like it.

I'm guessing that's a nVidia issue as I've never had trouble with random
freezing on Linux Mint.

But you're GPU is a nVidia one, right?

Yep. The last time I had an AMD GPU was on a Dell laptop I bought
refurbished around 2006. With Linux, that thing ran perfectly whether I
used the proprietary drivers or the libre ones. Since 2010, I've only
had laptops with NVIDIA chips.

--
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Gab: @CrudeSausage
Telegram: @CrudeSausage
Pfizer knowingly injected us with poison

Lawrence D'Oliveiro

2025-02-14 00:52:10 UTC

Post by CrudeSausage
I gave up on Ubuntu upon discovering that it and its derivatives freeze
randomly with no explanation as to why that might be.

Does it freeze up the entire GUI? Are you able to switch to a text console
and check things there? Or SSH from another machine during the freezeups?

There are lots of things you can do to try to get more clues about the
source of the problem.

CrudeSausage

2025-02-14 14:00:47 UTC

Post by CrudeSausage
I gave up on Ubuntu upon discovering that it and its derivatives freeze
randomly with no explanation as to why that might be.

Does it freeze up the entire GUI? Are you able to switch to a text console
and check things there? Or SSH from another machine during the freezeups?

Sometimes you can CTRL-ALT-F3 back to normalcy, sometimes you can't. It
happens so often that I wouldn't use it even if I could fix it through
another session every time.

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
There are lots of things you can do to try to get more clues about the
source of the problem.

But that would be the only thing I ever do in Linux: find out why A, B,
C or D don't work as expected. I'd rather use a distribution which gets
the basics right and has the odd misbehaving application, not a
distribution which constantly misbehaves but looks pretty.

--
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Gab: @CrudeSausage
Telegram: @CrudeSausage
Pfizer knowingly injected us with poison

Lawrence D'Oliveiro

2025-02-14 22:21:43 UTC

Post by CrudeSausage
I gave up on Ubuntu upon discovering that it and its derivatives
freeze randomly with no explanation as to why that might be.

Does it freeze up the entire GUI? Are you able to switch to a text
console and check things there? Or SSH from another machine during the
freezeups?

Sometimes you can CTRL-ALT-F3 back to normalcy ...

SSH?

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
There are lots of things you can do to try to get more clues about the
source of the problem.

But that would be the only thing I ever do in Linux: find out why A, B,
C or D don't work as expected.

There are lots of things you can do to try to get more clues about the
source of the problem.

CrudeSausage

2025-02-14 23:53:11 UTC

Post by CrudeSausage
I gave up on Ubuntu upon discovering that it and its derivatives
freeze randomly with no explanation as to why that might be.

Does it freeze up the entire GUI? Are you able to switch to a text
console and check things there? Or SSH from another machine during the
freezeups?

Sometimes you can CTRL-ALT-F3 back to normalcy ...

SSH?

Haven't tried.

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
There are lots of things you can do to try to get more clues about the
source of the problem.

But that would be the only thing I ever do in Linux: find out why A, B,
C or D don't work as expected.

There are lots of things you can do to try to get more clues about the
source of the problem.

That's like buying a Ford which theoretically runs great if you don't
mind constantly fixing it whereas you can just buy an Infiniti and have
everything run properly from the very beginning.

--
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Gab: @CrudeSausage
Telegram: @CrudeSausage
Pfizer knowingly injected us with poison

Lawrence D'Oliveiro

2025-02-15 06:53:24 UTC

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
There are lots of things you can do to try to get more clues about the
source of the problem.

That's like buying a Ford which theoretically runs great if you don't
mind constantly fixing it whereas you can just buy an Infiniti and have
everything run properly from the very beginning.

You were the one using the Ford and complaining about the freezes, I was
merely pointing out ways to get clues as to what is causing them. Wouldn’t
you rather they were fixed?

CrudeSausage

2025-02-15 10:41:52 UTC

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
There are lots of things you can do to try to get more clues about the
source of the problem.

That's like buying a Ford which theoretically runs great if you don't
mind constantly fixing it whereas you can just buy an Infiniti and have
everything run properly from the very beginning.

You were the one using the Ford and complaining about the freezes, I was
merely pointing out ways to get clues as to what is causing them. Wouldn’t
you rather they were fixed?

I would rather such problems not be there in the first place, from the
very beginning, on a clean install. I can imagine there being freezes
after a while, after you've downloaded a crapload of software, but this
is just ridiculous.

--
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Gab: @CrudeSausage
Telegram: @CrudeSausage
Pfizer knowingly injected us with poison

Lawrence D'Oliveiro

2025-02-16 00:10:17 UTC

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
There are lots of things you can do to try to get more clues about
the source of the problem.

That's like buying a Ford which theoretically runs great if you don't
mind constantly fixing it whereas you can just buy an Infiniti and
have everything run properly from the very beginning.

You were the one using the Ford and complaining about the freezes, I
was merely pointing out ways to get clues as to what is causing them.
Wouldn’t you rather they were fixed?

I would rather such problems not be there in the first place, from the
very beginning, on a clean install.

Well, getting to the bottom of what is causing them would help in getting
rid of them. Why not do that? Contribute instead of complaining.

RonB

2025-02-12 06:27:26 UTC

https://github.com/probonopd/go-appimage/blob/master/src/appimaged/
README.md
appimaged is handy as it will search for AppImages, extract the icons, and
have them show up on menus and taskbars.

They even integrate in Chromebooks (with Linux installed) so long as you
have zenity installed. (I don't know what "zenity" is, I just know you need
it in Chromebooks if you want to integrate AppImages into the desktop.
Otherwise you have to run them ./sample.AppImage from the terminal. (Maybe
this is only with poorly made AppImages, not sure.)

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

rbowman

2025-02-12 06:47:10 UTC

Post by RonB
They even integrate in Chromebooks (with Linux installed) so long as you
have zenity installed. (I don't know what "zenity" is, I just know you
need it in Chromebooks if you want to integrate AppImages into the
desktop. Otherwise you have to run them ./sample.AppImage from the
terminal. (Maybe this is only with poorly made AppImages, not sure.)

At least on Ubuntu appimaged installs itself as a systemd service. Maybe
something like that.

Ob Wincrap. Being Patch Tuesday I updated the laptop. It hung at 4% long
enough that I thought I'd have to do the 'hung install foxtrot' but it
eventually did it's thing and it still works. So far.

I alo updated the Pi. Very strange but VS Code went non-responsive. I had
it set for the Visual Studio light mode instead of the default dark mode.
When I blew away its config directory it came up dark and worked. Oh well,
I've learned to live with worse.

Lawrence D'Oliveiro

2025-02-12 00:33:06 UTC

Post by CrudeSausage
I'm not sure why they bothered making Flatpaks and Snaps when AppImages
work pretty much everywhere.

I don’t understand the point of any of them. They seem like attempts to
retrofit something that looks like MSI (only slightly better designed)
onto the Linux ecosystem. Why? Clearly it is to woo the proprietary
software developers -- the ones who don’t want to release their source
code to let the distro maintainers worry about packaging.

The downside is that each SnapImage/FlatApp/whatever has to carry around
all its dependencies with it, instead of being able to share dependencies
through the package system. The idea that developers, particularly
proprietary developers, can do a better job of keeping these dependencies
up to date than the distro maintainers (whose job it is to do just that),
just seems laughable.

Joel

2025-02-12 00:43:44 UTC

Post by CrudeSausage
I'm not sure why they bothered making Flatpaks and Snaps when AppImages
work pretty much everywhere.

I don’t understand the point of any of them. They seem like attempts to
retrofit something that looks like MSI (only slightly better designed)
onto the Linux ecosystem. Why? Clearly it is to woo the proprietary
software developers -- the ones who don’t want to release their source
code to let the distro maintainers worry about packaging.
The downside is that each SnapImage/FlatApp/whatever has to carry around
all its dependencies with it, instead of being able to share dependencies
through the package system. The idea that developers, particularly
proprietary developers, can do a better job of keeping these dependencies
up to date than the distro maintainers (whose job it is to do just that),
just seems laughable.

I'm a total whore, in this regard, I do any and every thing to obtain
software, your principles are fine for a pure GNU/Linux system,
genuinely being FOSS throughout, but some of us want to replace
Winblows with something equally badass, and there's no way to do it
without meeting the software where it is.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

CrudeSausage

2025-02-12 00:50:04 UTC

Post by CrudeSausage
I'm not sure why they bothered making Flatpaks and Snaps when AppImages
work pretty much everywhere.

I don’t understand the point of any of them. They seem like attempts to
retrofit something that looks like MSI (only slightly better designed)
onto the Linux ecosystem. Why? Clearly it is to woo the proprietary
software developers -- the ones who don’t want to release their source
code to let the distro maintainers worry about packaging.
The downside is that each SnapImage/FlatApp/whatever has to carry around
all its dependencies with it, instead of being able to share dependencies
through the package system. The idea that developers, particularly
proprietary developers, can do a better job of keeping these dependencies
up to date than the distro maintainers (whose job it is to do just that),
just seems laughable.

On the one hand, the fact that they carry all their dependencies ensures
that the application always works as intended. On the other hand, those
programs end up being much larger than you would want neutralizing one
of Linux's greatest benefits.

--
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Gab: @CrudeSausage
Telegram: @CrudeSausage
Pfizer knowingly injected us with poison

Lawrence D'Oliveiro

2025-02-12 02:54:10 UTC

Post by CrudeSausage
On the one hand, the fact that they carry all their dependencies ensures
that the application always works as intended.

The term “broken as designed” comes to mind.

Another characteristic of proprietary developers is they think they
control your machine.

RonB

2025-02-12 06:38:25 UTC

Post by CrudeSausage
I'm not sure why they bothered making Flatpaks and Snaps when AppImages
work pretty much everywhere.

I don’t understand the point of any of them. They seem like attempts to
retrofit something that looks like MSI (only slightly better designed)
onto the Linux ecosystem. Why? Clearly it is to woo the proprietary
software developers -- the ones who don’t want to release their source
code to let the distro maintainers worry about packaging.
The downside is that each SnapImage/FlatApp/whatever has to carry around
all its dependencies with it, instead of being able to share dependencies
through the package system. The idea that developers, particularly
proprietary developers, can do a better job of keeping these dependencies
up to date than the distro maintainers (whose job it is to do just that),
just seems laughable.

AppImages are really useful for something like the Scrivener Linux Beta.
Development was dropped years ago, and Scrivener Beta required older
dependencies that don't exist any more. So, since there is an AppImage,
which includes the dependencies, Scrivener can still be run on Linux where
it would have otherwise been long ago dead.

https://www.pling.com/p/1673680/

I just get the one with all the language packs (about 94 MBs). Although I
don't use Scrivener, there are a lot of people do. This will also work under
Linux in Chromebooks.

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

DFS

2025-02-12 01:39:05 UTC

Post by CrudeSausage
I'm not sure why they bothered making Flatpaks and Snaps when AppImages
work pretty much everywhere.

I don’t understand the point of any of them. They seem like attempts to
retrofit something that looks like MSI (only slightly better designed)
onto the Linux ecosystem. Why? Clearly it is to woo the proprietary
software developers -- the ones who don’t want to release their source
code to let the distro maintainers worry about packaging.
The downside is that each SnapImage/FlatApp/whatever has to carry around
all its dependencies with it, instead of being able to share dependencies
through the package system. The idea that developers, particularly
proprietary developers, can do a better job of keeping these dependencies
up to date than the distro maintainers (whose job it is to do just that),
just seems laughable.

You just thought up your own idea, then quickly concluded it's laughable.

Congrats on the self-nuke, Larry Duh!

vallor

2025-02-12 04:33:42 UTC

On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 00:33:06 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro

Post by CrudeSausage
I'm not sure why they bothered making Flatpaks and Snaps when AppImages
work pretty much everywhere.

I don’t understand the point of any of them. They seem like attempts to
retrofit something that looks like MSI (only slightly better designed)
onto the Linux ecosystem. Why? Clearly it is to woo the proprietary
software developers -- the ones who don’t want to release their source
code to let the distro maintainers worry about packaging.
The downside is that each SnapImage/FlatApp/whatever has to carry around
all its dependencies with it, instead of being able to share dependencies
through the package system. The idea that developers, particularly
proprietary developers, can do a better job of keeping these dependencies
up to date than the distro maintainers (whose job it is to do just that),
just seems laughable.

Flatpak and such is okay, but snaps are evil.

There is no way to host your own "snap repository". It's all controlled
by Canonical. Rubs me the wrong way. Same with the Mint maintainers:
by default, snaps are disabled on Linux Mint.

--
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OS: Linux 6.14.0-rc2 Release: Mint 22.1 Mem: 258G
"Psychoceramics: The study of crackpots."

Stéphane CARPENTIER

2025-02-15 11:27:36 UTC

Post by CrudeSausage
I'm not sure why they bothered making Flatpaks and Snaps when AppImages
work pretty much everywhere.

I don’t understand the point of any of them.

You should have made all your possible to avoid any explanation. Or you
are so stupid you never understood the given explanations. I don't know
which one.

There are a lot of reasons. From the distros, like Ubuntu, who needs at
the same time to release a stable version every two years and to provide
Firefox which has no real version number and must be updated frequently.

From the developer who doesn't want to spend more time to provide a way
to install his program than to program it.

From the sysadmin who want the installed softwares not to mess with the
system. And if python has good points, it's version management is the
worse I ever saw. So it doesn't mean nothing.

I'm not saying snap is a good answer, but the reasons behind it are
real. And being unable to see that tells more about you than about the
tools you refuse to understand.

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
They seem like attempts to
retrofit something that looks like MSI (only slightly better designed)
onto the Linux ecosystem.

Maybe things changed since I looked at that the last time. But, the last
time I checked the msi provided only a way to install easily a new
software on Windows. And sometimes with something to remove them. There
was nothing about the updates.

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Why?

I gave you only three reasons. There are others, but if you refuse to
understand, you won't find them.

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Clearly it is to woo the proprietary
software developers -- the ones who don’t want to release their source
code to let the distro maintainers worry about packaging.

In which world are you living? Are you stuck in an older past than
LP/DG/NV/whatever? You want punch cards too? Nobody want to install
something from source anymore. There is no reason to force people to
install from source anymore.

If a developer offers his software for everyone he has to provide a way
to install a working binary with it. And your dream world doesn't apply
in this case because the distros won't package it if it's not already
well spread. And guess what, to be well spread it needs a simple way to
be installed by everyone. So either the developer provides a package for
every distro or he is using something that can be install in any distro.

So, back to the beginning, the purpose is just to answer the issues you
refuse to see.

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
The downside is that each SnapImage/FlatApp/whatever has to carry around
all its dependencies with it,

On a modern system, it's not an issue anymore. In the mid 90's, where you
look stuck, the system took most of the place of the hard drive. So yes,
back then it was a real concern. But now, almost nobody needs more than 20Go
for a full Linux distro, which is invisible on a modern hard drive.

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
instead of being able to share dependencies through the package system.

Yes, speak about that with the python community. Even the first class
moron FR/LP/DG/whatever who refuses to do anything with python had five
different versions of it installed on his system.

Now, on some systems, like ubuntu, python is managed by the system, so it
refuses to execute a "pip install". And if the library isn't provided by
ubuntu, you have to run "pip install" in a virtual environment to be
able to use a library designed not to be shared with the libraries of
the system.

And python is only one programming language, with rust, it's far from
better. And then, a lot of things can be considered, like is it xorg or
wayland? Is it systemd? Is it gnome/kde/else? Sometimes, you don't care
about the init system or the graphical interface, other times, it's
mandatory to take care of them.

A modern program using modern libraries who would follow your advice
to provide only the source code will never been installed. It would be
too difficult for the really interested user. And once the program is
installed, it wouldn't be sure to run anymore once the system is
upgraded. And to update the software would be as cumbersome as to
install it. No, really, no end user wants the developers to follow your
advice to provide only the source code.

It's not the 90's anymore, the systems are more complex and varied.

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
The idea that developers, particularly
proprietary developers, can do a better job of keeping these dependencies
up to date than the distro maintainers (whose job it is to do just that),
just seems laughable.

The fact that you don't know what a modern distro looks like is telling.

I strongly believe you never programmed or you did it a very long time
ago. Because with this sentence you show you know nothing about complex
development. It's a fact that the programmer knows better than the
distro maintainers about the versions of the libraries required by his
program to be able to run. Doubting it is just refusing the reality. And
the distro maintainers are well aware of it: that's why a lot of things
are done in this way. Look at nixos and guix: the all distros are based on
the concept that makes you laugh because they know better than listening
to you old and impracticable advice.

But I understand why you laugh: it's easier to despise what you don't
understand than to try to improve your knowledge.

--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

rbowman

2025-02-15 21:08:37 UTC

Post by StÃ©phane CARPENTIER
Maybe things changed since I looked at that the last time. But, the last
time I checked the msi provided only a way to install easily a new
software on Windows. And sometimes with something to remove them. There
was nothing about the updates.

On Ubuntu Brave is a snap. On Windows Brave will tell you when an update
is available, allow you to download it, and apply it on relaunch. On
Ubuntu, Brave will show the update but can't apply it by itself. You have
to update the snap and relaunch. Minor annoyance.

Post by StÃ©phane CARPENTIER
Now, on some systems, like ubuntu, python is managed by the system, so
it refuses to execute a "pip install". And if the library isn't provided
by ubuntu, you have to run "pip install" in a virtual environment to be
able to use a library designed not to be shared with the libraries of
the system.

I believe 'sudo pip install xxxxx' will work although I prefer to use
venvs. Installing to the system libs might be preferable for something
like ruff but I still do that in the venv.

Stéphane CARPENTIER

2025-02-15 22:03:36 UTC

On Ubuntu Brave is a snap. On Windows Brave will tell you when an update
is available, allow you to download it, and apply it on relaunch.

So, in that case, it's not managed by the package installer, but by the
application itself. Which is different. And the purpose of the package
manager is for the software to avoid doing this.

Post by rbowman
On Ubuntu, Brave will show the update but can't apply it by itself.
You have to update the snap and relaunch. Minor annoyance.

So here, the information comes from the software but the package manager
takes care of the update. Which is the proper way, because if the
software didn't checked itself, the package manager would have done it.

I believe 'sudo pip install xxxxx' will work although I prefer to use
venvs. Installing to the system libs might be preferable for something
like ruff but I still do that in the venv.

I can't test it now, but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't work. The error
message was explicit. It didn't said "you don't have the authorisation".
It said something like "the libraries are managed by your distribution
and you should use the package manager of your distribution instead, run
sudo apt install". I'm sure there are ways to force "pip install" to run
anyway, but I strongly believe it would be a bad idea because I have no
idea about the side effects.

--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

vallor

2025-02-16 00:46:30 UTC

Post by StÃ©phane CARPENTIER

On Ubuntu Brave is a snap. On Windows Brave will tell you when an update
is available, allow you to download it, and apply it on relaunch.

So, in that case, it's not managed by the package installer, but by the
application itself. Which is different. And the purpose of the package
manager is for the software to avoid doing this.

Post by rbowman
On Ubuntu, Brave will show the update but can't apply it by itself.
You have to update the snap and relaunch. Minor annoyance.

I believe 'sudo pip install xxxxx' will work although I prefer to use
venvs. Installing to the system libs might be preferable for something
like ruff but I still do that in the venv.

It also gives instructions on how to set up a venv, which (once I figured out
what that means), seems to work well.

For example, I have a Fooocus directory that contains another Fooocus
directory, which contains the git repo pulled from the master.

In there, I've set up a venv -- so to run Fooocus, I cd into the git
repo directory, then run

$ ../bin/python3 entry_with_update.py

To get all the requirements installed first, I ran

$ ../bin/pip3 install -r requirements_versions.txt

It was all fairly easy, and it's compartmentalized.

--
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OS: Linux 6.14.0-rc2 Release: Mint 22.1 Mem: 258G
"Enter any 11-digit prime number to continue..."
[ note about that tag: that's actually not too difficult
with Linux primes(1)...]

rbowman

2025-02-16 04:07:08 UTC

Post by vallor
It also gives instructions on how to set up a venv, which (once I
figured out what that means), seems to work well.

I don't have a reason to but python3 on my machine is Python 3.12.7.
However there is also Python 3.10.12.

Python3.10 -m venv foo

should create a 3.10.12 environment. That might be handy for some things.
Python 3.13 dropped the cgi module. I don't know if CherryPi has caught up
but on my work Windows machine it broke when I went to 3.13. There is a
fix with

pip install legacy-cgi

but there may have been a way around it with a venv referencing an older
Python.

It's in the best Python tradition -- we don't need that old stuff any
more. Can it.

Stéphane CARPENTIER

2025-02-16 09:01:13 UTC

Post by StÃ©phane CARPENTIER

I believe 'sudo pip install xxxxx' will work although I prefer to use
venvs. Installing to the system libs might be preferable for something
like ruff but I still do that in the venv.

It also gives instructions on how to set up a venv, which (once I figured out
what that means), seems to work well.

Yes, that's what I said: I had to run it in a virtual environment. So
it's what I said, the official way of using python for a developer is to
use it in a virtual environment. Which means the programmer is expecting
to install the library required by is software and not using the
libraries of the system. It's not my decision, it's, like I said, the
new way: the libraries installed by the system are used by the system
and the libraries installed by the developer are used by the software.
They are not shared anymore and it avoids compatibilities issues.

And it's exactly what snap, appimage and flatpack are doing on a broader
way than python. Like it or not, it's what people are doing now, and
there are reasons behind that.

--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

rbowman

2025-02-16 03:53:14 UTC

Post by StÃ©phane CARPENTIER
I can't test it now, but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't work. The error
message was explicit. It didn't said "you don't have the authorisation".
It said something like "the libraries are managed by your distribution
and you should use the package manager of your distribution instead, run
sudo apt install". I'm sure there are ways to force "pip install" to run
anyway, but I strongly believe it would be a bad idea because I have no
idea about the side effects.

× This environment is externally managed
╰─> To install Python packages system-wide, try apt install
python3-xyz, where xyz is the package you are trying to
install.

sudo apt install python3-ruff

did work and it is in /usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/ruff. It might have
been OpenSUSE 13.2 where you could force feed it.

Stéphane CARPENTIER

2025-02-16 09:04:11 UTC

× This environment is externally managed
╰─> To install Python packages system-wide, try apt install
python3-xyz, where xyz is the package you are trying to
install.
sudo apt install python3-ruff
did work and it is in /usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/ruff. It might have
been OpenSUSE 13.2 where you could force feed it.

There was a precision in what I said: for the libraries not managed by
the distribution. Of course it works for the libraries managed by the
distribution.

--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

CrudeSausage

2025-02-16 00:32:48 UTC

Brave is now available through the Windows Store, so updating should be
somewhat easier now.

< snip >

--
God be with you,

CrudeSausage/
Gab: @CrudeSausage
Telegram: @CrudeSausage

rbowman

2025-02-16 04:10:34 UTC

Post by CrudeSausage
Brave is now available through the Windows Store, so updating should be
somewhat easier now.

On Windows it's click on the reddish 'Update Available' and relaunch after
it's downloaded. Can't get easier. It's only on Ubuntu where you click and
it says no can do and you have to mess around with snap. iirc you also
have to 'killall brave' since snap isn't very good at updating running
processes.

Stéphane CARPENTIER

2025-02-16 09:06:25 UTC

Post by CrudeSausage
Brave is now available through the Windows Store, so updating should be
somewhat easier now.

Note that I never said snap was good. For me, it's a wrong answer to a real
issue. But the reasons behind it are real.

--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

Lawrence D'Oliveiro

2025-02-15 21:26:02 UTC

Nobody want to install something from source anymore.

That’s why most distros offer prebuilt binaries.

If a developer offers his software for everyone he has to provide a way
to install a working binary with it.

Nope. Just leave the building and packaging to the distro maintainers.
That’s something they know how to do.

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
The downside is that each SnapImage/FlatApp/whatever has to carry
around all its dependencies with it,

On a modern system, it's not an issue anymore.

The idea that developers, particularly proprietary developers, can do
a better job of keeping these dependencies up to date than the distro
maintainers (whose job it is to do just that), just seems laughable.

Stéphane CARPENTIER

2025-02-15 22:36:39 UTC

Nobody want to install something from source anymore.

That’s why most distros offer prebuilt binaries.

No distro maintainer will package an unknown software made by un unknown
developer.

If a developer offers his software for everyone he has to provide a way
to install a working binary with it.

Nope. Just leave the building and packaging to the distro maintainers.
That’s something they know how to do.

No distro maintainer will package an unknown software made by un unknown
developer. (bis)

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
The downside is that each SnapImage/FlatApp/whatever has to carry
around all its dependencies with it,

On a modern system, it's not an issue anymore.

No distro maintainer will package an unknown software made by un unknown
developer. (ter)

The developers don't care about the dependencies of the distros, they
care about the dependencies needed by their code. And believing the
maintainers of the distro know every dependency of all the packages they
manage is unrealistic.

And, by the way, believing that FOSS developers are better than
proprietary developers is just stupid. There is no rule that says: if
you are good you develop FOSS for free and if you are bad you are paid
to develop.

I know, it's easier to refuse the reality and to despise everything that
doesn't conform to your vision. As long as you don't work near a
developer it's safe. But your view of it is just garbage and you
shouldn't share it like if it's the only obvious truth.

--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

Lawrence D'Oliveiro

2025-02-16 00:09:30 UTC

Post by StÃ©phane CARPENTIER
No distro maintainer will package an unknown software made by un unknown
developer.

Not sure what that’s supposed to mean. There are a couple of packages in
the standard Debian repo with my name on them; do I count as an “unknown
developer” to you?

Debian is huge: I think there’s something like 50,000 packages in the
standard repo. You think there are that number of famous-name developers
out there?

Remember also that each distro includes all the tools for maintenance of
the distro itself, as open source, in its standard repo. It is usually
quite easy for users to create their own add-on repos, with additional
packages not available in the standard distribution -- Ubuntu PPAs are one
well-known example of this.

And from there, it’s not a big step, if there is sufficient demand, for a
package to migrate from an “unofficial” repo to an “official” one.

This is how the Open Source community works. Everything comes from those
who choose to contribute, not from those who just sit on their bums and
complain.

Stéphane CARPENTIER

2025-02-16 08:49:06 UTC

Post by StÃ©phane CARPENTIER
No distro maintainer will package an unknown software made by un unknown
developer.

Not sure what that’s supposed to mean.

It means that if a well known developer was creating a new software, the
package managers can take care of it. But if nobody hear about a
developer the package managers won't take care of his software if they
aren't already well spread. Either the software is well spread or the
developer is already known, if none of them are

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
There are a couple of packages in the standard Debian repo with my
name on them; do I count as an “unknown developer” to you?

OK, so your packages are released in Debian. How about Ubuntu? How about
Mint? How about Archlinux? How about Guix? How about Fedora? If I want
to use your packages, I need to install Debian and if I want to use
packages managed only by Fedora, I need to have both distros installed at
the same time and switch between them? That's why there are so many
people switching between distros?

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Debian is huge: I think there’s something like 50,000 packages in the
standard repo.

It's nothing compared with the number of softwares available on github,
gitlab and others like gnu. For example, where is the package for
icecat?
<https://www.gnu.org/software/gnuzilla/>
So what are the Debian package managers doing? Like I said, a lot of
requirements are needed before a software is packaged by a distro. And
before that, the software developer needs a way to distribute it.

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
You think there are that number of famous-name developers out there?

The famous is not the only requirement. Contributing to a well spread
software is enough when you aren't famous. But for the new software to
become well spread, it needs to have a way to be distributed. So, we're
back at the beginning : either the developer spend all of his time for
it to be managed by all package managers or he is using an easy way to
deploy it everywhere. Which is the purpose of all the things you refuse
to see the point.

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Remember also that each distro includes all the tools for maintenance of
the distro itself, as open source, in its standard repo. It is usually
quite easy for users to create their own add-on repos, with additional
packages not available in the standard distribution -- Ubuntu PPAs are one
well-known example of this.

Yes, using ppa for ubuntu, using aur for archlinux, and using everything
for every distro and we're back at the beginning: the programmer spend
more time to distribute it than to develop it. Or he's using a method
which you refuse to see the purpose.

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
And from there, it’s not a big step, if there is sufficient demand, for a
package to migrate from an “unofficial” repo to an “official” one.

Yes, for one distro. But there are dozens of popular distros.

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
This is how the Open Source community works.

s/is/was/

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Everything comes from those who choose to contribute,

Yes, they contribute: they develop softwares and are using new ways to
provide them to the community.

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
not from those who just sit on their bums and complain.

I'm not complaining. You are the one complaining about snap/flatpack and
others. You say it's useless, I'm telling you why it's not. I'm not
saying snap and flatpack are good: I'm saying the reasons behind them are
real.

And the reasons behind NixOS, Guix and immutable distro like Silverblue
are the same but seen by the package maintainers. They all disagree with
you. Maybe their solutions are bad, but anyway, they do them because
there is a real pain with the way you are promoting.

--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

vallor

2025-02-16 00:36:12 UTC

On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 21:26:02 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro

Nobody want to install something from source anymore.

That’s why most distros offer prebuilt binaries.

Pssst...time for a git pull on your pan repo. ;)

--
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
OS: Linux 6.14.0-rc2 Release: Mint 22.1 Mem: 258G
"Eagles may soar but weasels aren't sucked into jet engines!"

Lawrence D'Oliveiro

2025-02-16 01:36:41 UTC

... time for a git pull ...

I never do git-pull.

vallor

2025-02-16 03:46:58 UTC

On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 01:36:41 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro

... time for a git pull ...

I never do git-pull.

Well, whatever you do to get the latest pan.

--
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
OS: Linux 6.14.0-rc2 Release: Mint 22.1 Mem: 258G
"One way to better your lot is to do a lot better..."

pothead

2025-02-16 02:09:38 UTC

Post by vallor
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 21:26:02 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro

Nobody want to install something from source anymore.

That’s why most distros offer prebuilt binaries.

Pssst...time for a git pull on your pan repo. ;)

I still cannot get pan working under MX Linux.
It installs from the repo fine, brings down messages fine
but if I try to reply to a message it tosses an error something
like message not found.

I'm probably messing up the specifics as it's been a while but still
it does not work.

--
pothead

Why did Joe Biden pardon his family?
Read below to learn the reason.
The Biden Crime Family Timeline here:
https://oversight.house.gov/the-bidens-influence-peddling-timeline/

Joel

2025-02-16 02:13:48 UTC

Post by vallor
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 21:26:02 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro

Nobody want to install something from source anymore.

That’s why most distros offer prebuilt binaries.

Pssst...time for a git pull on your pan repo. ;)

I still cannot get pan working under MX Linux.
It installs from the repo fine, brings down messages fine
but if I try to reply to a message it tosses an error something
like message not found.
I'm probably messing up the specifics as it's been a while but still
it does not work.

This would be why I use Forte Agent under Wine, why settle for
hobbyware BS like Pan? Unix-like has terrific NNTP clients running in
terminal, but I have yet to see a GUI one worth anything.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

vallor

2025-02-16 04:01:45 UTC

Post by Joel

Post by vallor
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 21:26:02 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro

Nobody want to install something from source anymore.

That’s why most distros offer prebuilt binaries.

Pssst...time for a git pull on your pan repo. ;)

I still cannot get pan working under MX Linux.
It installs from the repo fine, brings down messages fine
but if I try to reply to a message it tosses an error something
like message not found.
I'm probably messing up the specifics as it's been a while but still
it does not work.

This would be why I use Forte Agent under Wine, why settle for
hobbyware BS like Pan? Unix-like has terrific NNTP clients running in
terminal, but I have yet to see a GUI one worth anything.

Pan is not "hobbyware", any more than the Linux kernel is.

It's also under continuous development. The last Forte Agent
was released over 10 years ago. Get a clue, noob.

--
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
OS: Linux 6.14.0-rc2 Release: Mint 22.1 Mem: 258G
"Individualists of the world, UNITE!"

Joel

2025-02-16 04:39:27 UTC

Post by Joel
I use Forte Agent under Wine, why settle for
hobbyware BS like Pan? Unix-like has terrific NNTP clients running in
terminal, but I have yet to see a GUI one worth anything.

Pan is not "hobbyware", any more than the Linux kernel is.

Uh, no. The kernel is what's making this work, it's professionally
coded, Pan is just a fucking app, and is inferior to Forte Agent in
every respect.

Post by vallor
It's also under continuous development. The last Forte Agent
was released over 10 years ago. Get a clue, noob.

Agent 8 is the last version because there's nothing else to do with
it, it's complete for all time. It's perfection. If you want the
best GUI newsreader, it stands alone as that*. But feel free to think
using Pan is so terrific just because it's FOSS and native to the
platform, I don't give two craps about using Wine, it's a great
resource for a purpose like this, giving me the use of the one Windows
app I would have a hard time living without.

* The Usenapp app for macOS is likely equally good, I have never had
the experience of it.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

rbowman

2025-02-16 04:18:04 UTC

This would be why I use Forte Agent under Wine, why settle for hobbyware
BS like Pan? Unix-like has terrific NNTP clients running in terminal,
but I have yet to see a GUI one worth anything.

Pan works for me. If I want to run Windows stuff, I'll fire up the Windows
laptop. It's been a while but iirc I have usenet set up in Thunderbird on
Windows. It got weird on Linux and I switched to Pan.

I used to like KNode but that's history now. Usenet gets no respect in
KDE.

Joel

2025-02-16 04:48:30 UTC

This would be why I use Forte Agent under Wine, why settle for hobbyware
BS like Pan? Unix-like has terrific NNTP clients running in terminal,
but I have yet to see a GUI one worth anything.

Pan works for me. If I want to run Windows stuff, I'll fire up the Windows
laptop. It's been a while but iirc I have usenet set up in Thunderbird on
Windows. It got weird on Linux and I switched to Pan.
I used to like KNode but that's history now. Usenet gets no respect in
KDE.

My philosophy is to use the best, the latest, up-to-date, user-
friendly software for a given purpose. It's pretty simple, other than
Usenapp for macOS, Forte Agent stands as a flagship GUI NNTP client,
native to Windows API but usable under Wine. There's just no good
reason to put up with something less than.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

vallor

2025-02-16 05:32:39 UTC

Post by Joel

This would be why I use Forte Agent under Wine, why settle for hobbyware
BS like Pan? Unix-like has terrific NNTP clients running in terminal,
but I have yet to see a GUI one worth anything.

Pan works for me. If I want to run Windows stuff, I'll fire up the Windows
laptop. It's been a while but iirc I have usenet set up in Thunderbird on
Windows. It got weird on Linux and I switched to Pan.
I used to like KNode but that's history now. Usenet gets no respect in
KDE.

I've seen editor wars, and OS wars, but this is the first time
I've seen some Usenet rando try to start a newsreader war.

--
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
OS: Linux 6.14.0-rc2 Release: Mint 22.1 Mem: 258G
"A cat is always on the wrong side of a door."

Joel

2025-02-16 05:39:41 UTC

This would be why I use Forte Agent under Wine, why settle for hobbyware
BS like Pan? Unix-like has terrific NNTP clients running in terminal,
but I have yet to see a GUI one worth anything.

Pan works for me. If I want to run Windows stuff, I'll fire up the Windows
laptop. It's been a while but iirc I have usenet set up in Thunderbird on
Windows. It got weird on Linux and I switched to Pan.
I used to like KNode but that's history now. Usenet gets no respect in
KDE.

I've seen editor wars, and OS wars, but this is the first time
I've seen some Usenet rando try to start a newsreader war.

"Usenet rando"? Are you drinking, or something? I'm speaking
objectively, there are a finite number of known NNTP clients in the
universe, Agent stands out among them.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

rbowman

2025-02-16 08:14:06 UTC

Post by Joel
"Usenet rando"? Are you drinking, or something? I'm speaking
objectively, there are a finite number of known NNTP clients in the
universe, Agent stands out among them.

I won't even ask what makes it so spectacular. I've never used it and have
no desire to. Pan does what I need.

Joel

2025-02-16 09:10:14 UTC

Post by Joel
there are a finite number of known NNTP clients in the
universe, Agent stands out among them.

I won't even ask what makes it so spectacular. I've never used it and have
no desire to. Pan does what I need.

Agent is a commercial app, fully featured, giving one a GUI interface
to Usenet. It allows me to efficiently, professionally deal with the
NGs.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

vallor

2025-02-16 12:39:23 UTC

Post by Joel

Post by Joel
there are a finite number of known NNTP clients in the
universe, Agent stands out among them.

I won't even ask what makes it so spectacular. I've never used it and have
no desire to. Pan does what I need.

Agent is a commercial app, fully featured, giving one a GUI interface
to Usenet. It allows me to efficiently, professionally deal with the
NGs.

Riiiiight.

Let's take an example: how many news servers can you configure
it to use? (I have three set up in Pan.)

Meanwhile, your "commercial app" isn't open source, and isn't
even being maintained anymore -- not for 10 years! Booo!

Besides: Gravity is better.

But all this is moot. We might as well be discussing the
"one true ice cream". Different people have different
preferences. That's what makes Unix so nice: choice.

--
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
OS: Linux 6.14.0-rc2 Release: Mint 22.1 Mem: 258G
"Use The Source, Luke!"

2025-02-16 12:47:09 UTC

Post by Joel
there are a finite number of known NNTP clients in the
universe, Agent stands out among them.

I won't even ask what makes it so spectacular. I've never used it and have
no desire to. Pan does what I need.

Agent is a commercial app, fully featured, giving one a GUI interface
to Usenet. It allows me to efficiently, professionally deal with the
NGs.

Riiiiight.
Let's take an example: how many news servers can you configure
it to use? (I have three set up in Pan.)
Meanwhile, your "commercial app" isn't open source, and isn't
even being maintained anymore -- not for 10 years! Booo!
Besides: Gravity is better.
But all this is moot. We might as well be discussing the
"one true ice cream". Different people have different
preferences. That's what makes Unix so nice: choice.

everyone on unix is always stuck fixing something ,
i haven't got time to figure out ,
if my ubuntu goes woo woo , i deleted everything except ,
the stuff i need to post with

Stéphane CARPENTIER

2025-02-16 13:11:02 UTC

Post by %
everyone on unix is always stuck fixing something ,

I don't.

--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

Joel

2025-02-16 12:48:34 UTC

[Forte] Agent is a commercial app, fully featured, giving one a GUI interface
to Usenet. It allows me to efficiently, professionally deal with the
NGs.

Riiiiight.
Let's take an example: how many news servers can you configure
it to use? (I have three set up in Pan.)

OK.

Post by vallor
Meanwhile, your "commercial app" isn't open source, and isn't
even being maintained anymore -- not for 10 years! Booo!

It's still functional as it was in 2014, dude. That's why it's still
being offered for sale, derp.

Post by vallor
Besides: Gravity is better.

You may believe that.

Post by vallor
But all this is moot. We might as well be discussing the
"one true ice cream". Different people have different
preferences. That's what makes Unix so nice: choice.

'K.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Chris Ahlstrom

2025-02-16 12:56:53 UTC

Post by vallor
But all this is moot. We might as well be discussing the
"one true ice cream". Different people have different
preferences. That's what makes Unix so nice: choice.

https://news.software.readers.narkive.com/N1nrut8v/slrn-using-slrn-to-read-from-multiple-servers

Alternatives are slrnpull and leafnode, but I've never tried them.
--
`Lasu' Releases SAG 0.3 -- Freeware Book Takes Paves For New World Order
by staff writers
...
The central Superhighway site called ``sunsite.unc.edu''
collapsed in the morning before the release. News about the release had
been leaked by a German hacker group, Harmonious Hardware Hackers, who
had cracked into the author's computer earlier in the week. They had
got the release date wrong by one day, and caused dozens of eager fans
to connect to the sunsite computer at the wrong time. ``No computer can
handle that kind of stress,'' explained the mourning sunsite manager,
Erik Troan. ``The spinning disks made the whole computer jump, and
finally it crashed through the floor to the basement.'' Luckily,
repairs were swift and the computer was working again the same evening.
``Thank God we were able to buy enough needles and thread and patch it
together without major problems.'' The site has also installed a new
throttle on the network pipe, allowing at most four clients at the same
time, thus making a new crash less likely. ``The book is now in our
Incoming folder'', says Troan, ``and you're all welcome to come and get it.''
-- Lars Wirzenius <***@cs.helsinki.fi>
[comp.os.linux.announce]

Chris Ahlstrom

2025-02-16 12:50:02 UTC

This would be why I use Forte Agent under Wine, why settle for hobbyware
BS like Pan? Unix-like has terrific NNTP clients running in terminal,
but I have yet to see a GUI one worth anything.

Pan works for me. If I want to run Windows stuff, I'll fire up the Windows
laptop. It's been a while but iirc I have usenet set up in Thunderbird on
Windows. It got weird on Linux and I switched to Pan.
I used to like KNode but that's history now. Usenet gets no respect in
KDE.

I've seen editor wars, and OS wars, but this is the first time
I've seen some Usenet rando try to start a newsreader war.

I use slrn. All other newsreaders suck ass.
I use mutt. All other email clients suck ass.

I should add this:

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

--
No excellent soul is exempt from a mixture of madness.
-- Aristotle

vallor

2025-02-16 03:56:21 UTC

Post by vallor
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 21:26:02 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro

Nobody want to install something from source anymore.

That’s why most distros offer prebuilt binaries.

Pssst...time for a git pull on your pan repo. ;)

I still cannot get pan working under MX Linux.
It installs from the repo fine, brings down messages fine
but if I try to reply to a message it tosses an error something
like message not found.
I'm probably messing up the specifics as it's been a while but still
it does not work.

TBH I haven't run Mint's packaged pan in a long time. I build from the
git repo.

What version are you using? Also double-check you're using a recent
gmime, there was a fix for the Newsgroups: line a few months ago.

You can run pan in debug mode:

$ pan --debug

or even

$ pan --debug --debug --verbose

You might want to run script(1) first, so you can capture all the output.

--
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
OS: Linux 6.14.0-rc2 Release: Mint 22.1 Mem: 258G
"If at first you don't succeed, call it v1.0!"

pothead

2025-02-16 04:39:47 UTC

Post by vallor
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 21:26:02 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro

What version are you using? Also double-check you're using a recent
gmime, there was a fix for the Newsgroups: line a few months ago.

Nobody want to install something from source anymore.

That’s why most distros offer prebuilt binaries.

Pssst...time for a git pull on your pan repo. ;)

I still cannot get pan working under MX Linux.
It installs from the repo fine, brings down messages fine
but if I try to reply to a message it tosses an error something
like message not found.
I'm probably messing up the specifics as it's been a while but still
it does not work.

TBH I haven't run Mint's packaged pan in a long time. I build from the
git repo.
What version are you using? Also double-check you're using a recent
gmime, there was a fix for the Newsgroups: line a few months ago.
$ pan --debug
or even
$ pan --debug --debug --verbose
You might want to run script(1) first, so you can capture all the output.

Running .0154.
I'll try your suggestions. Thanks.

--
pothead

Why did Joe Biden pardon his family?
Read below to learn the reason.
The Biden Crime Family Timeline here:
https://oversight.house.gov/the-bidens-influence-peddling-timeline/

rbowman

2025-02-16 04:59:15 UTC

Post by vallor
What version are you using? Also double-check you're using a recent
gmime, there was a fix for the Newsgroups: line a few months ago.

Ubuntu's package is .160 from 2024-08-10.

https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/pan/-/blob/master/NEWS

I don't see anything in the .161 and .162 change logs that looks
worrisome.

RonB

2025-02-12 06:24:00 UTC

I would be lying if I said that it never happened to me before.

I was beginning to think Windows 11 was fairly solid. This surprised me. I
don't why, but I had a bad feeling when I let it do a "disk check." I was
more worried that Windows would trash my Linux grub setup for booting,
though, I didn't think it would trash itself.
I went ahead and deleted the Windows partitions with GParted and installed
Debian 12 in its place. I'm experimenting with creating .deb packages for
Trelby (which I found isn't that hard to do) so it'll be nice to have a
Debian install for testing purposes. (Linux Mint is more like Ubuntu and
Debian and LM are actually different enough that I have to test both.)
Speaking of Ubuntu, I've come to despise it and it's damn Snaps. I found out
that the Snap version of Firefox refuses to read .html files if they're not
in the home (and/or, I suppose, the Snap) directory. The documentation for
Trelby can't be read by it (installed in its normal directory). When I
uninstall the Snap version of Firefox, it won't allow me to install the .deb
version. They're definitely turning into control freaks at Ubuntu (kind of
like Windows and Mac OS).

I don't like Snaps at all. I do tolerate FlatPaks (and use a few of them)
but if I knew how to make AppImages that's what I would prefer for Trelby.
And it's not Snaps I really dislike, it's Ubuntu forcing them on you.
There's other things I don't like about Ubuntu. It would definitely not be
in my top 20 list.

I think you're right. I think they're completely sold on the "container"
idea — everything in its own "silo" (or whatever they call it, "sandbox"
maybe). To me that means you lose the advatage of Linux, where small
applications are combined to create bigger applications, in one nice "flow."
This may be a good idea for servers, but I don't think there are other ways
to secure (harden) servers. I don't like it on a personal computer at all.
I think they call these "container" distributions. Fedora has one, CoreOS,
but they keep it separate from their standard install. That's what I wish
Ubuntu would do as, apparently, they have something called Ubuntu Core. Save
the damn Snaps for that. I guess the big one (so far) is Alpine. I don't
know if these use special containers, or Snaps or Flatpaks, or what.

I'm not sure why they bothered making Flatpaks and Snaps when AppImages
work pretty much everywhere. I mean, how can you beat something which
requires nothing more than for you to make it executable?

Agreed. But some people make AppImages that don't include all the
dependencies, so they can be "mis-made."

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

CrudeSausage

2025-02-12 14:04:40 UTC

I would be lying if I said that it never happened to me before.

I was beginning to think Windows 11 was fairly solid. This surprised me. I
don't why, but I had a bad feeling when I let it do a "disk check." I was
more worried that Windows would trash my Linux grub setup for booting,
though, I didn't think it would trash itself.
I went ahead and deleted the Windows partitions with GParted and installed
Debian 12 in its place. I'm experimenting with creating .deb packages for
Trelby (which I found isn't that hard to do) so it'll be nice to have a
Debian install for testing purposes. (Linux Mint is more like Ubuntu and
Debian and LM are actually different enough that I have to test both.)
Speaking of Ubuntu, I've come to despise it and it's damn Snaps. I found out
that the Snap version of Firefox refuses to read .html files if they're not
in the home (and/or, I suppose, the Snap) directory. The documentation for
Trelby can't be read by it (installed in its normal directory). When I
uninstall the Snap version of Firefox, it won't allow me to install the .deb
version. They're definitely turning into control freaks at Ubuntu (kind of
like Windows and Mac OS).

I don't like Snaps at all. I do tolerate FlatPaks (and use a few of them)
but if I knew how to make AppImages that's what I would prefer for Trelby.
And it's not Snaps I really dislike, it's Ubuntu forcing them on you.
There's other things I don't like about Ubuntu. It would definitely not be
in my top 20 list.

I think you're right. I think they're completely sold on the "container"
idea — everything in its own "silo" (or whatever they call it, "sandbox"
maybe). To me that means you lose the advatage of Linux, where small
applications are combined to create bigger applications, in one nice "flow."
This may be a good idea for servers, but I don't think there are other ways
to secure (harden) servers. I don't like it on a personal computer at all.
I think they call these "container" distributions. Fedora has one, CoreOS,
but they keep it separate from their standard install. That's what I wish
Ubuntu would do as, apparently, they have something called Ubuntu Core. Save
the damn Snaps for that. I guess the big one (so far) is Alpine. I don't
know if these use special containers, or Snaps or Flatpaks, or what.

I'm not sure why they bothered making Flatpaks and Snaps when AppImages
work pretty much everywhere. I mean, how can you beat something which
requires nothing more than for you to make it executable?

Agreed. But some people make AppImages that don't include all the
dependencies, so they can be "mis-made."

Considering AppImage exists since 2004, it's a wonder that Red Hat and
Canonical felt the need to create their own. It might have been easier
to just improve it and make sure that it integrates properly with the
system.

--
CrudeSausage/
Gab: @CrudeSausage
Telegram: @CrudeSausage
Pfizer knowingly injected us with poison

rbowman

2025-02-12 19:16:21 UTC

Post by CrudeSausage
Considering AppImage exists since 2004, it's a wonder that Red Hat and
Canonical felt the need to create their own. It might have been easier
to just improve it and make sure that it integrates properly with the
system.

NIH? I don't know how valid/important the sandboxing argument is. I'm the
sole user of any of my machines so it's a PITA if anything.

CrudeSausage

2025-02-13 00:07:30 UTC

NIH? I don't know how valid/important the sandboxing argument is. I'm the
sole user of any of my machines so it's a PITA if anything.

The argument here is that if one application is malevolent or gets
infected, at least it won't affect the rest of the system. I like that
approach and would prefer sandboxed applications given the choice.
However, even with a 2TB NVMe, I don't want to waste storage needlessly
by installing sandboxed applications when the regular version is not
only faster but does a better job integrating with the rest of the
system. Speed-wise, I didn't notice much different between a Flatpak and
a .deb or an .rpm, but it's still there to an extent.

--
CrudeSausage/
Gab: @CrudeSausage
Telegram: @CrudeSausage
Pfizer knowingly injected us with poison

RonB

2025-02-13 06:41:25 UTC

I would be lying if I said that it never happened to me before.

I was beginning to think Windows 11 was fairly solid. This surprised me. I
don't why, but I had a bad feeling when I let it do a "disk check." I was
more worried that Windows would trash my Linux grub setup for booting,
though, I didn't think it would trash itself.
I went ahead and deleted the Windows partitions with GParted and installed
Debian 12 in its place. I'm experimenting with creating .deb packages for
Trelby (which I found isn't that hard to do) so it'll be nice to have a
Debian install for testing purposes. (Linux Mint is more like Ubuntu and
Debian and LM are actually different enough that I have to test both.)
Speaking of Ubuntu, I've come to despise it and it's damn Snaps. I found out
that the Snap version of Firefox refuses to read .html files if they're not
in the home (and/or, I suppose, the Snap) directory. The documentation for
Trelby can't be read by it (installed in its normal directory). When I
uninstall the Snap version of Firefox, it won't allow me to install the .deb
version. They're definitely turning into control freaks at Ubuntu (kind of
like Windows and Mac OS).

I don't like Snaps at all. I do tolerate FlatPaks (and use a few of them)
but if I knew how to make AppImages that's what I would prefer for Trelby.
And it's not Snaps I really dislike, it's Ubuntu forcing them on you.
There's other things I don't like about Ubuntu. It would definitely not be
in my top 20 list.

I think you're right. I think they're completely sold on the "container"
idea — everything in its own "silo" (or whatever they call it, "sandbox"
maybe). To me that means you lose the advatage of Linux, where small
applications are combined to create bigger applications, in one nice "flow."
This may be a good idea for servers, but I don't think there are other ways
to secure (harden) servers. I don't like it on a personal computer at all.
I think they call these "container" distributions. Fedora has one, CoreOS,
but they keep it separate from their standard install. That's what I wish
Ubuntu would do as, apparently, they have something called Ubuntu Core. Save
the damn Snaps for that. I guess the big one (so far) is Alpine. I don't
know if these use special containers, or Snaps or Flatpaks, or what.

I'm not sure why they bothered making Flatpaks and Snaps when AppImages
work pretty much everywhere. I mean, how can you beat something which
requires nothing more than for you to make it executable?

Agreed. But some people make AppImages that don't include all the
dependencies, so they can be "mis-made."

I think Canonical wanted to control an Apple style "app store." I didn't
realize that Red Hat was a big supporter for flatpak. But I do know I like
flatpaks better than snaps. As far as not using AppImage... I have no idea
why they (at least Red Hat) didn't go that direction.

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

CrudeSausage

2025-02-13 13:42:51 UTC

I would be lying if I said that it never happened to me before.

I was beginning to think Windows 11 was fairly solid. This surprised me. I
don't why, but I had a bad feeling when I let it do a "disk check." I was
more worried that Windows would trash my Linux grub setup for booting,
though, I didn't think it would trash itself.
I went ahead and deleted the Windows partitions with GParted and installed
Debian 12 in its place. I'm experimenting with creating .deb packages for
Trelby (which I found isn't that hard to do) so it'll be nice to have a
Debian install for testing purposes. (Linux Mint is more like Ubuntu and
Debian and LM are actually different enough that I have to test both.)
Speaking of Ubuntu, I've come to despise it and it's damn Snaps. I found out
that the Snap version of Firefox refuses to read .html files if they're not
in the home (and/or, I suppose, the Snap) directory. The documentation for
Trelby can't be read by it (installed in its normal directory). When I
uninstall the Snap version of Firefox, it won't allow me to install the .deb
version. They're definitely turning into control freaks at Ubuntu (kind of
like Windows and Mac OS).

I don't like Snaps at all. I do tolerate FlatPaks (and use a few of them)
but if I knew how to make AppImages that's what I would prefer for Trelby.
And it's not Snaps I really dislike, it's Ubuntu forcing them on you.
There's other things I don't like about Ubuntu. It would definitely not be
in my top 20 list.

I think you're right. I think they're completely sold on the "container"
idea — everything in its own "silo" (or whatever they call it, "sandbox"
maybe). To me that means you lose the advatage of Linux, where small
applications are combined to create bigger applications, in one nice "flow."
This may be a good idea for servers, but I don't think there are other ways
to secure (harden) servers. I don't like it on a personal computer at all.
I think they call these "container" distributions. Fedora has one, CoreOS,
but they keep it separate from their standard install. That's what I wish
Ubuntu would do as, apparently, they have something called Ubuntu Core. Save
the damn Snaps for that. I guess the big one (so far) is Alpine. I don't
know if these use special containers, or Snaps or Flatpaks, or what.

I'm not sure why they bothered making Flatpaks and Snaps when AppImages
work pretty much everywhere. I mean, how can you beat something which
requires nothing more than for you to make it executable?

Agreed. But some people make AppImages that don't include all the
dependencies, so they can be "mis-made."

Actually, I read that Snaps were superior to Flatpaks. The problem is
that Canonical has ultimate control over their storage and distribution.
I don't mind that Canonical was trying an Apple-style approach since
Shuttleworth made a significant investment in Linux and wants to get
that money back, but I do think that Flatpak is a smart alternative to
ensure that Canonical doesn't control the operating system as much as it
does Ubuntu itself. What Canonical does with Ubuntu is their own
business and people are free to use it or ignore it.

--
CrudeSausage/
Gab: @CrudeSausage
Telegram: @CrudeSausage
Pfizer knowingly injected us with poison

rbowman

2025-02-13 21:23:08 UTC

Post by CrudeSausage
Actually, I read that Snaps were superior to Flatpaks. The problem is
that Canonical has ultimate control over their storage and distribution.

I haven't searched around to see how the flatpak selection compared to
snaps. My only reference is the Arduino IDE v2 that is a flatpak but isn't
a snap leading to messing around with AppImage.

RonB

2025-02-14 07:43:07 UTC

I would be lying if I said that it never happened to me before.

I was beginning to think Windows 11 was fairly solid. This surprised me. I
don't why, but I had a bad feeling when I let it do a "disk check." I was
more worried that Windows would trash my Linux grub setup for booting,
though, I didn't think it would trash itself.
I went ahead and deleted the Windows partitions with GParted and installed
Debian 12 in its place. I'm experimenting with creating .deb packages for
Trelby (which I found isn't that hard to do) so it'll be nice to have a
Debian install for testing purposes. (Linux Mint is more like Ubuntu and
Debian and LM are actually different enough that I have to test both.)
Speaking of Ubuntu, I've come to despise it and it's damn Snaps. I found out
that the Snap version of Firefox refuses to read .html files if they're not
in the home (and/or, I suppose, the Snap) directory. The documentation for
Trelby can't be read by it (installed in its normal directory). When I
uninstall the Snap version of Firefox, it won't allow me to install the .deb
version. They're definitely turning into control freaks at Ubuntu (kind of
like Windows and Mac OS).

I don't like Snaps at all. I do tolerate FlatPaks (and use a few of them)
but if I knew how to make AppImages that's what I would prefer for Trelby.
And it's not Snaps I really dislike, it's Ubuntu forcing them on you.
There's other things I don't like about Ubuntu. It would definitely not be
in my top 20 list.

I think you're right. I think they're completely sold on the "container"
idea — everything in its own "silo" (or whatever they call it, "sandbox"
maybe). To me that means you lose the advatage of Linux, where small
applications are combined to create bigger applications, in one nice "flow."
This may be a good idea for servers, but I don't think there are other ways
to secure (harden) servers. I don't like it on a personal computer at all.
I think they call these "container" distributions. Fedora has one, CoreOS,
but they keep it separate from their standard install. That's what I wish
Ubuntu would do as, apparently, they have something called Ubuntu Core. Save
the damn Snaps for that. I guess the big one (so far) is Alpine. I don't
know if these use special containers, or Snaps or Flatpaks, or what.

I'm not sure why they bothered making Flatpaks and Snaps when AppImages
work pretty much everywhere. I mean, how can you beat something which
requires nothing more than for you to make it executable?

Agreed. But some people make AppImages that don't include all the
dependencies, so they can be "mis-made."

In my opinion Snaps are not superior to Flatpaks. Snaps are invasive,
Flatpaks are easily removed. As I mentioned in another post, Trelby
(screenwriting software) includes an HTML manual. It's normal location is
/usr/trelby/trelby (up until a recent release, it's now under
usr/lib/python3.xx/dist-pkgs... — something like that). But the Snap version
of Firefox can't read anything in the /usr subdirectoryy (actually I don't
think it can read *any* file in the root directory). So Snap forces you to
try to work around it's non-standard BS, making a .deb installation package
fail that works with any other Firefox installation. (This is just one
example.)

I won't Snaps, even if there's an application that only is available as a
Snap. That's how much I don't like them.

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

CrudeSausage

2025-02-14 14:03:16 UTC

I would be lying if I said that it never happened to me before.

I was beginning to think Windows 11 was fairly solid. This surprised me. I
don't why, but I had a bad feeling when I let it do a "disk check." I was
more worried that Windows would trash my Linux grub setup for booting,
though, I didn't think it would trash itself.
I went ahead and deleted the Windows partitions with GParted and installed
Debian 12 in its place. I'm experimenting with creating .deb packages for
Trelby (which I found isn't that hard to do) so it'll be nice to have a
Debian install for testing purposes. (Linux Mint is more like Ubuntu and
Debian and LM are actually different enough that I have to test both.)
Speaking of Ubuntu, I've come to despise it and it's damn Snaps. I found out
that the Snap version of Firefox refuses to read .html files if they're not
in the home (and/or, I suppose, the Snap) directory. The documentation for
Trelby can't be read by it (installed in its normal directory). When I
uninstall the Snap version of Firefox, it won't allow me to install the .deb
version. They're definitely turning into control freaks at Ubuntu (kind of
like Windows and Mac OS).

I don't like Snaps at all. I do tolerate FlatPaks (and use a few of them)
but if I knew how to make AppImages that's what I would prefer for Trelby.
And it's not Snaps I really dislike, it's Ubuntu forcing them on you.
There's other things I don't like about Ubuntu. It would definitely not be
in my top 20 list.

I think you're right. I think they're completely sold on the "container"
idea — everything in its own "silo" (or whatever they call it, "sandbox"
maybe). To me that means you lose the advatage of Linux, where small
applications are combined to create bigger applications, in one nice "flow."
This may be a good idea for servers, but I don't think there are other ways
to secure (harden) servers. I don't like it on a personal computer at all.
I think they call these "container" distributions. Fedora has one, CoreOS,
but they keep it separate from their standard install. That's what I wish
Ubuntu would do as, apparently, they have something called Ubuntu Core. Save
the damn Snaps for that. I guess the big one (so far) is Alpine. I don't
know if these use special containers, or Snaps or Flatpaks, or what.

I'm not sure why they bothered making Flatpaks and Snaps when AppImages
work pretty much everywhere. I mean, how can you beat something which
requires nothing more than for you to make it executable?

Agreed. But some people make AppImages that don't include all the
dependencies, so they can be "mis-made."

In my opinion Snaps are not superior to Flatpaks. Snaps are invasive,
Flatpaks are easily removed. As I mentioned in another post, Trelby
(screenwriting software) includes an HTML manual. It's normal location is
/usr/trelby/trelby (up until a recent release, it's now under
usr/lib/python3.xx/dist-pkgs... — something like that). But the Snap version
of Firefox can't read anything in the /usr subdirectoryy (actually I don't
think it can read *any* file in the root directory). So Snap forces you to
try to work around it's non-standard BS, making a .deb installation package
fail that works with any other Firefox installation. (This is just one
example.)
I won't Snaps, even if there's an application that only is available as a
Snap. That's how much I don't like them.

I honestly feel that most people think the way that you do as it relates
to Snaps. That might be why Ubuntu's popularity is steadily decreasing
with time.

--
CrudeSausage/
Gab: @CrudeSausage
Telegram: @CrudeSausage
Pfizer knowingly injected us with poison

rbowman

2025-02-14 21:09:52 UTC

Post by CrudeSausage
I honestly feel that most people think the way that you do as it relates
to Snaps. That might be why Ubuntu's popularity is steadily decreasing
with time.

The snaps don't bother me and while I'm not fond of GNOME I can live with
it. However I've had to manually fix stuff after upgrading to LTS versions
and now to 24.10. That's disappointing in a distro that's supposed to be
newbie friendly.

I never upgraded OpenSUSE past 13.2 because the consensus at the time was
going to Leap best was done with a fresh install but Ubuntu should be
smoother.

I'm not going to reinstall this box short of a disaster but in the future
I'll stick with KDE capable distros.

CrudeSausage

2025-02-14 23:51:48 UTC

Post by CrudeSausage
I honestly feel that most people think the way that you do as it relates
to Snaps. That might be why Ubuntu's popularity is steadily decreasing
with time.

That's part of the appeal of rolling distributions, I guess. They're
supposed to break more often because of the constant updates, but they
actually seem to break less because the updates are many but small
rather than few and large.

Post by rbowman
I never upgraded OpenSUSE past 13.2 because the consensus at the time was
going to Leap best was done with a fresh install but Ubuntu should be
smoother.
I'm not going to reinstall this box short of a disaster but in the future
I'll stick with KDE capable distros.

As far as I can tell, a lot of people are still running out-of-date
versions of certain Linux distributions because everything runs the way
it should and they can't be bothered to do a clean install. I don't
think it's that common for people to still be running Ubuntu 20.04 or
something like Fedora 36.

--
CrudeSausage/
Gab: @CrudeSausage
Telegram: @CrudeSausage
Pfizer knowingly injected us with poison

rbowman

2025-02-15 00:38:41 UTC